Abortion Doctor Geroge Tiller Murdered this morning

[LutheranDK]

Thanks for responding. I’m happy to have received your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I don’t know what you mean by cafeteria Roman Catholics supporting infanticide. Could you explain, please.

Certainly. People calling themselves “Catholic” have for years claimed that there’s nothing wrong with “abortion”, that it’s “a choice”, etc, flying in the face of the teachings of the RC church. They don’t see a problem with their attitudes, but think that it’s the Church that needs to change its stance.

I thought “Cafeteria Catholic” was an RC expression? I’ve seen it hundreds of times on these forums anyway

One other Protestant, who didn’t identify her church affiliation, did tell me that Protestants don’t excommunicate. Well, that statement was proved wrong, wasn’t it.

Indeed.
Confessional “protestant” churches do “excommunicate” - they just don’t use that word

Then I read about an Episcopal minister, Rev. Kathering Ragsdale, who heads a seminary, who refers to Tiller as a saint and martyr. Unbelievable!

Well…a martyr for infanticide, and the unholy alliance between some “churches” and the anti-life-movement maybe.
But to use the name “martyr” about him is to soil the memory and sacrifice of the REAL martyrs

 

[aicirt]

Certainly. People calling themselves “Catholic” have for years claimed that there’s nothing wrong with “abortion”, that it’s “a choice”, etc, flying in the face of the teachings of the RC church. They don’t see a problem with their attitudes, but think that it’s the Church that needs to change its stance.

I thought “Cafeteria Catholic” was an RC expression? I’ve seen it hundreds of times on these forums anyway

Indeed.
Confessional “protestant” churches do “excommunicate” - they just don’t use that word

Well…a martyr for infanticide, and the unholy alliance between some “churches” and the anti-life-movement maybe.
But to use the name “martyr” about him is to soil the memory and sacrifice of the REAL martyrs

Okay. Here in the US, infanticide is not synonymous with abortion. Infanticide takes place outside the womb, abortion inside. Tiller was guilty of both. The Church is against both infanticide and abortion. Anyone who calls himself a Catholic and is pro-choice, isn’t a Catholic. You are correct, cafterteria Catholic is a term used for those who pick and chose what they want to practice, not what the Church teaches.

From your orginal post, I thought you might be referring to something re. infanticide that may have happened in your part of the world years ago.

Yes, we agree, Ragsdale and others are part of an unholy alliance between some “churches” and the anti-life movement. Where’s the outcry with Protestants?

Some US Catholics have become very vocal in their desire to have pro-choice Catholic politicians excommunicated from the Church. Two weeks ago, there was a big outcry re. Obama being invited by Notre Dame to speak at a recent commencement.

I think this was a time for some of the pro-life Protestant churches to question what their fellow churches were doing in regards to Tiller. I haven’t heard or seen anything. I would have thought those Lutheran churches that are pro-life like LCMS would have been very vocal in explaining their philosophies of life and their differences with Lutheran churches like Reformed Lutheran who are so liberal as to bring scandal to themselves and others.

 

[jimpres]

Today on TV some of the women who had abortions by Tiller were honoring him for what he has done. He is becoming a martyr for the liberal media. It is hard to understand that kind of attitude. They have lost all there morals for the progressive movement.

 

[aicirt]

Today on TV some of the women who had abortions by Tiller were honoring him for what he has done. He is becoming a martyr for the liberal media. It is hard to understand that kind of attitude. They have lost all there morals for the progressive movement.

There’s a letter written to Hitler by a German"mother" applauding him for removing mentally deficient children. She was the mother of such a child and was all for the Nazis removing him. I’m sure she saw Adolph as a saint too.

 

[imperial]

There’s a letter written to Hitler by a German"mother" applauding him for removing mentally deficient children. She was the mother of such a child and was all for the Nazis removing him. I’m sure she saw Adolph as a saint too.

Short and sweet AICIRT,
Devils do have their fans and they are many.
The road to heaven is narrow but that road to hell is very wide.
Well at least the supporters of these evil people won’t have to worry they will spend all eternity with their idols

 

[aicirt]

Short and sweet AICIRT,
Devils do have their fans and they are many.
The road to heaven is narrow but that road to hell is very wide.
Well at least the supporters of these evil people won’t have to worry they will spend all eternity with their idols

What bothers me is we saw evil 70 years ago with the Nazis but now we can’t see it dwelling amongst us.

How are things going Down Under?

 

[elgar]

Okay. Here in the US, infanticide is not synonymous with abortion. Infanticide takes place outside the womb, abortion inside. Tiller was guilty of both. The Church is against both infanticide and abortion. Anyone who calls himself a Catholic and is pro-choice, isn’t a Catholic. You are correct, cafterteria Catholic is a term used for those who pick and chose what they want to practice, not what the Church teaches.

From your orginal post, I thought you might be referring to something re. infanticide that may have happened in your part of the world years ago.

Yes, we agree, Ragsdale and others are part of an unholy alliance between some “churches” and the anti-life movement. Where’s the outcry with Protestants?

Some US Catholics have become very vocal in their desire to have pro-choice Catholic politicians excommunicated from the Church. Two weeks ago, there was a big outcry re. Obama being invited by Notre Dame to speak at a recent commencement.

I think this was a time for some of the pro-life Protestant churches to question what their fellow churches were doing in regards to Tiller. I haven’t heard or seen anything. I would have thought those Lutheran churches that are pro-life like LCMS would have been very vocal in explaining their philosophies of life and their differences with Lutheran churches like Reformed Lutheran who are so liberal as to bring scandal to themselves and others.

I had read that Tiller was at one time a member of LCMS and they apparently kicked him out. I’m not sure it was official ex-communication but it doesn’t really matter. Bible believing protestants–myself included–have made a clear stand against abortion. We in general are not as vocal in public like real Catholics have been. I’ve seen representation of Evangelical Protestants and Antiochon Orthodox peacefully protesting in front of local abortion mills.

Some are predicting a set-back in the Right to Life movement because of the shooting of Tiller. I hope this doesn’t happen. Roeder comes across as an anti-government Tim McVey type more than a rabid anti-abortionist. The guy is mentally ill and that should be the emphasis but we all know how the liberal press works.

 

[aicirt]

I had read that Tiller was at one time a member of LCMS and they apparently kicked him out. I’m not sure it was official ex-communication but it doesn’t really matter. Bible believing protestants–myself included–have made a clear stand against abortion. We in general are not as vocal in public like real Catholics have been. I’ve seen representation of Evangelical Protestants and Antiochon Orthodox peacefully protesting in front of local abortion mills.

Some are predicting a set-back in the Right to Life movement because of the shooting of Tiller. I hope this doesn’t happen. Roeder comes across as an anti-government Tim McVey type more than a rabid anti-abortionist. The guy is mentally ill and that should be the emphasis but we all know how the liberal press works.

Do you have any thoughts as to why pro-life Protestants haven’t been as vocal as Catholics?
I’m very proud of the Church’s stand against abortion and at the push for something to be done re. our so called Catholic politicians who promote pro-choice. " Catholic" Sibelius (sp?), the former governor of Kansas who now serves in O’s administration, defended Tiller. He was donating to her coffers since the 90s. She is, among other things, guilty of accepting blood money knowing that it came from his abortion business. I shudder to think of it.
Oddly enough, a Lutheran friend, not sure of which group, got very irrate during the elections scolding some Catholic women for voting for Obama. A Methodist friend wanted to know why Father Jenkins was fired from his position as President of Notre Dame. Fair enough. They want more action from us. I want more action from their churches. Maybe then the liberal press will start thinking differently. Up to us, don’t you think?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I do not have the perception that Protestants are not vocal against abortion. On the contrary, conservative Protestants seem much more vocal than lukewarm Catholics. A lot of people who call themselves Catholic won’t stand up against abortion in public, or even condone abortion.

 

[aicirt]

I do not have the perception that Protestants are not vocal against abortion. On the contrary, conservative Protestants seem much more vocal than lukewarm Catholics. A lot of people who call themselves Catholic won’t stand up against abortion in public, or even condone abortion.

Disagree. There was an amazing protest re. Notre Dame. Many, including the local Bishop, spoke out against what was being done in his own diocese by a fellow member of the cloth. This was because of Obama’s pro abortion stance.

Catholics have also stated they wanted Pelosi excommunicated which she is but what they’re looking for is that she and others like her be stopped from receiving communion.

I’d like to see pro-life Protestants equally unnerved by an admitted abortionist of 60,000 babies participating in a Christian church.

If the murder of innocents, including murder at birth, isn’t against Christian beliefs, what is?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Disagree. There was an amazing protest re. Notre Dame. Many, including the local Bishop, spoke out against what was being done in his own diocese by a fellow member of the cloth. This was because of Obama’s pro abortion stance.

Catholics have also stated they wanted Pelosi excommunicated which she is but what they’re looking for is that she and others like her be stopped from receiving communion.

I’d like to see pro-life Protestants equally unnerved by an admitted abortionist of 60,000 babies participating in a Christian church.

If the murder of innocents, including murder at birth, isn’t against Christian beliefs, what is?

Yes, those are the real Catholics. People who do not attend Mass and who are pro-choice still call themselves Catholic, which is probably a misnomer.

You must not have been exposed to the many Southern Baptists and Assembly of God Protestants in the south and midwest who are very strongly pro-life and very vocal about it. During the early 1990s, when the abortion protests were going in Wichita (Summer of Mercy), the Christian Broadcast Network did extensive coverage of it and was very vocal about the pro-life position, and supporting pro-life political candidates.

 

[aicirt]

Yes, those are the real Catholics. People who do not attend Mass and who are pro-choice still call themselves Catholic, which is probably a misnomer.

You must not have been exposed to the many Southern Baptists and Assembly of God Protestants in the south and midwest who are very strongly pro-life and very vocal about it. During the early 1990s, when the abortion protests were going in Wichita (Summer of Mercy), the Christian Broadcast Network did extensive coverage of it and was very vocal about the pro-life position, and supporting pro-life political candidates.

That was 19 years ago. Tiller was killed May 31. CBN covering any protests?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

That was 19 years ago. Tiller was killed May 31. CBN covering any protests?

This isn’t exactly the time to be aggressively protesting, or even engaging in aggressive pro-life rhetoric. Anyone who does that now would be setting themselves up as a target for years to come for the left to insinuate they were an accessory to Dr. Tiller’s murder.

The point is that you are mistaken that conservative Protestants are not actively and vocally pro-life. I am Protestant convert, and I can assure you that conservative Protestants are unequivocally pro-life.

 

[aicirt]

This isn’t exactly the time to be aggressively protesting, or even engaging in aggressive pro-life rhetoric. Anyone who does that now would be setting themselves up as a target for years to come for the left to insinuate they were an accessory to Dr. Tiller’s murder.

The point is that you are mistaken that conservative Protestants are not actively and vocally pro-life. I am Protestant convert, and I can assure you that conservative Protestants are unequivocally pro-life.

Why was it a good time in 1990 and not now?

It was not exactly a good time for those against the ND decision to announce publicly that some Catholics are strongly against what is going on at that institution. But I don’t think they cared. I think they were more concerned about clarifying who Catholics are and what we stand for re. abortion. There was a legitimate concern about liberal actions causing scandal which is exactly what happened.

Hogwash what the left thinks! This is about a Christian church harboring a mass murderer for years. Christians are suppose to care for the souls of their fellow Christians. If other Christians don’t point out to the Reformed Luterans that they are in error, who will? The left?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Why was it a good time in 1990 and not now?

It was not exactly a good time for those against the ND decision to announce publicly that some Catholics are strongly against what is going on at that institution. But I don’t think they cared. I think they were more concerned about clarifying who Catholics are and what we stand for re. abortion. There was a legitimate concern about liberal actions causing scandal which is exactly what happened.

Hogwash what the left thinks! This is about a Christian church harboring a mass murderer for years. Christians are suppose to care for the souls of their fellow Christians. If other Christians don’t point out to the Reformed Luterans that they are in error, who will? The left?

You’re changing the subject.

I wanted to make the point that evangelical Protestants are very pro-life. Most teachers and pastors I listened to held the same position as the Catholic Church on abortion, and felt that even if a mother’s life were in danger her life should not be automatically preferred to the child’s life, and that every effort should be made to preserve both lives. Some other Protestant teachers would make an exception only if a mother’s life were in real danger and the pregnancy was so early it were impossible to give the baby a chance to live outside the womb.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Well…a martyr for infanticide, and the unholy alliance between some “churches” and the anti-life-movement maybe.
But to use the name “martyr” about him is to soil the memory and sacrifice of the REAL martyrs

According to Fr.Eutenauer of Human Life international, who is now an exorcist, there are many, many demons infesting abortion mills and a lot of feminists are self-proclaimed “witches”** that have been known to "cast spells and curses" on pro-life demonstrators outside of abortuaries, when they are having prayer vigils.
Fr.Corapi told the story of Bishop Sheen meeting an attractive women on an airplane in 1977, that said she was “fasting” for abortions, because she was a** witch**…the Bishop described the encounter, as chilling…"
If Tiller is being proclaimed a "martyr" by his cult following-perhaps it is for their god,**" Molloch" (the demon of child sacrifice). ** Anything’s possible.

 

[aicirt]

You’re changing the subject.

I wanted to make the point that evangelical Protestants are very pro-life. Most teachers and pastors I listened to held the same position as the Catholic Church on abortion, and felt that even if a mother’s life were in danger her life should not be automatically preferred to the child’s life, and that every effort should be made to preserve both lives. Some other Protestant teachers would make an exception only if a mother’s life were in real danger and the pregnancy was so early it were impossible to give the baby a chance to live outside the womb.

My point has been how can a chuch tolerate a mass murderer in its church? Accept his donations (blood money) which is money made from his abortion business. Not be concerened about scandal. Aren’t you questioning what kind of church this is?

 

[elgar]

My point has been how can a chuch tolerate a mass murderer in its church? Accept his donations (blood money) which is money made from his abortion business. Not be concerened about scandal. Aren’t you questioning what kind of church this is?

Using your logic, why hasn’t the Catholic Church excommunicated Kathleen Sebelius by now? Is anyone refusing her Communion?

 

[aicirt]

Using your logic, why hasn’t the Catholic Church excommunicated Kathleen Sebelius by now? Is anyone refusing her Communion?

Wish they would. By supporting abortion, Kathleen Sebelius and other “Catholics” like her, are automatically excommunicated. This means she can still come to church but can’t receive the sacraments. I believe her bishop has spoken to her privately but she hasn’t stopped. Her actions are scandalous.

As a Protestant, what are your feeling re. the Reformed Lutheran Church having Tiller as a member?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

My point has been how can a chuch tolerate a mass murderer in its church? Accept his donations (blood money) which is money made from his abortion business. Not be concerened about scandal. Aren’t you questioning what kind of church this is?

No, I don’t personally ask those questions because I already know it’s a Lutheran church, and a particular division of the Lutheran church that is liberal. That explains it to me. I know the Southern Baptist church and the Assembly of God church will be vocally pro-life, but the liberal Methodist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran churches will be either non-commital or pro-choice.

I know and understand the differences between Protestant churches because I was Protestant. So this is not a surprise.