Abortion Doctor Geroge Tiller Murdered this morning

[estesbob]

Using your logic, why hasn’t the Catholic Church excommunicated Kathleen Sebelius by now? Is anyone refusing her Communion?

Yes-the Archbishop of her diocese forbade her to recieve communion.

 

[estesbob]

Wish they would. By supporting abortion, Kathleen Sebelius and other “Catholics” like her, are automatically excommunicated. This means she can still come to church but can’t receive the sacraments. **I believe her bishop has spoken to her privately but she hasn’t stopped. Her actions are scandalous. **

?

He very publicly rebuked her:

Archbishop to Gov. Sebelius: Stop taking Communion, publicly apologize

Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius should stop taking Communion until she repudiates her support for the “serious %between%moral evil” of abortion, the Catholic archbishop for northeast Kansas says.

primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/11658

 

[jimpres]

Yes, she should stop taking communion. And if she presents herself for communion it should not be given.

 

[wanner47]

Fr. Tom Euteneuer sent out a great e-mail this morning:

Tiller’s Murder Was Not Justified

George Tiller, the mass murderer of Wichita, Kansas is dead. “Those who live by the sword, die by the sword,” said the Lord. I will pray for his eternal salvation as I do for all abortionists, and I will also pray for his murderer who proved that he was no better than Tiller in that final act. The killing of Tiller has generated an immense amount of publicity, rancor and confusion, even among pro-lifers, so I would like to reflect on a few issues surrounding Tiller’s death that are on people’s minds.

1. Can killing a mass murderer be considered “justifiable homicide”? The short answer to this is “no,” but it is not always apparent why. The Church teaches that people and nations certainly have the right to defend themselves, even if necessary with the use of lethal force. Scripture and tradition also teach us that we have the duty to defend the innocent and rescue them, but there are several provisions that put this admonition into a moral context.

      * The lethal use of force to protect or rescue someone is to be employed in the midst of a life-threatening aggression already in progress; it is not to be used as retaliation, and it is usually not pre-emptive.
      * The use of force has to be proportionate to the aggression (that is, one can't use a gun to kill someone who only insulted him).
      * There also has to be a high likelihood of success in actually stopping the aggressions.
      * And finally, one has to have tried using every other means possible to stop the aggressor up to the point of using lethal force.

  In light of all this, the killing of even mass abortionist Tiller while he was in church is not justifiable. He was not in the midst of an aggressive act at that moment, and his killer could not know for certain whether or not he was intending to go back to his dirty business the following day. In addition to that, all other legal and moral efforts were actually being made to stop him from doing his work, and it was a fairly well-known fact that Tiller was coming close to having his license revoked by the State of Kansas. In other words, a legal means of stopping the killing was already being played out and may have worked had the murder not taken place. Who knows what will happen now.

1. Then could an abortionist be killed in his abortion clinic while in the act of committing abortions? While some might justify such an act based on the above criteria, it would be almost impossible to carry out with the security of the modern abortion system, and the likelihood of its overall success would be extremely low. For example, even if a person killed an abortionist in the act and perhaps saved the baby he was attempting to abort at that moment, the abortion clinic would continue to do business using other abortionists and just re-schedule the other abortions. It is likely that the very same baby that he thought he saved would have just been aborted in a later appointment.

  Would that killing save a small percentage of babies whose mothers would not come back to the abortion mill? Probably, but sidewalk counseling does that already and the sidewalk counselors would not be in jail like the murderer would, so they could continue to save babies on a routine basis whereas the murderer's one single act of saving babies cannot be repeated.

1. What effect does the killing of abortionists have on the pro-life effort and is this to be taken into account in the criteria to determine the “likelihood of success”? Presumably a person kills an abortionist because he wants the killing of babies to stop. He tries to cut off the supply of aggression at its source by making one less abortionist in the world; but again, the overall goal of stopping the killing of babies has not been accomplished because there are still abortionists in the world and an abortion industry that an isolated murder has not been able to stop. In fact, the case can be made that such an act makes the pro-life effort much more difficult for those on the front lines as it generates reprisals in the form of bubble zones, lawsuits and the souring of public sentiment against our cause.

The killing of abortionists can only be seen as a desperate act, one which is ineffective at stopping the killing of babies. We must never miss the real tragedy, however, which is the fact of the 60,000 dead babies killed by the mass murderer of Wichita. May God have mercy on George Tiller’s soul.

hli.org/sl_2009-06-05.html

 

[elgar]

He very publicly rebuked her:

Archbishop to Gov. Sebelius: Stop taking Communion, publicly apologize

Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius should stop taking Communion until she repudiates her support for the “serious %between%moral evil” of abortion, the Catholic archbishop for northeast Kansas says.

primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/11658

I’m glad to hear this. Does anyone know since becoming Health and Human Services czar if she has shown up in Catholic churches in Washington DC? Bp. Wuerl has not taken a hard-line position against pro-abortion catholic politicians unlike the archbishop of NE Kansas.

 

[estesbob]

I’m glad to hear this. Does anyone know since becoming Health and Human Services czar if she has shown up in Catholic churches in Washington DC? Bp. Wuerl has not taken a hard-line position against pro-abortion catholic politicians unlike the archbishop of NE Kansas.

It is up to the local Bishop so i suspect she has no problem receiving Communion in DC

 

[Corki]

It is up to the local Bishop so i suspect she has no problem receiving Communion in DC

It’s an interesting question since, unlike some others, her Bishop made a public declaration that she was not to receive Communion. Bishops usually honor the disciplinary actions of brother Bishops.

 

[DonHudzinski]

According to Fr.Eutenauer of Human Life international, who is now an exorcist, there are many, many demons infesting abortion mills and a lot of feminists are self-proclaimed “witches”** that have been known to "cast spells and curses" on pro-life demonstrators outside of abortuaries, when they are having prayer vigils.
Fr.Corapi told the story of Bishop Sheen meeting an attractive women on an airplane in 1977, that said she was “fasting” for abortions, because she was a** witch**…the Bishop described the encounter, as chilling…"
If Tiller is being proclaimed a "martyr" by his cult following-perhaps it is for their god,**" Molloch" (the demon of child sacrifice). ** Anything’s possible.

Not only have I been cursed at the PP in Madison, Wisconsin. I wittiness demons, talking about the curses on the products distributed by PP by a satanic priest. They came along to distribute those curses. It was every thing from ligature, condoms, and the pill.

 

[aicirt]

Not only have I been cursed at the PP in Madison, Wisconsin. I wittiness demons, talking about the curses on the products distributed by PP by a satanic priest. They came along to distribute those curses. It was every thing from ligature, condoms, and the pill.

It was Rev. Katherine Ragsdale, an Episcopalian minister and head of a seminary and pro-abortion, who, upon hearing of the killing, proclaimed him a saint or martyr. This was not a satanic priest. Mainline Protestant.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

It was Rev. Katherine Ragsdale, an Episcopalian minister and head of a seminary and pro-abortion, who, upon hearing of the killing, proclaimed him a saint or martyr. This was not a satanic priest. Mainline Protestant.

Wolf in sheep’s clothing.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Not only have I been cursed at the PP in Madison, Wisconsin. I wittiness demons, talking about the curses on the products distributed by PP by a satanic priest. They came along to distribute those curses. It was every thing from ligature, condoms, and the pill.

Thank you for testifying to this phenomenon. I am more and more convinced that abortionists such as Tiller (hard core) must be possessed by evil spirits. “Evil begets evil”…Roeder acted on an evil impulse…Tiller the "perpetrator" becomes the "victim".
Once again, I don’t believe anyone is** justifying** it-but there is an element of retribution that no one can ignore.

 

[TMC]

It’s an interesting question since, unlike some others, her Bishop made a public declaration that she was not to receive Communion. Bishops usually honor the disciplinary actions of brother Bishops.

Unlike Senators and Representatives, cabinet members usually move their residence to the DC area. Depending on where she lives, she is probably now a member of the Archdiocese of Washington (DC and nearby Maryland) or the Diocese of Arlington (Virginia).

 

[DonHudzinski]

Thank you for testifying to this phenomenon. I am more and more convinced that abortionists such as Tiller (hard core) must be possessed by evil spirits. “Evil begets evil”…Roeder acted on an evil impulse…Tiller the "perpetrator" becomes the "victim".
Once again, I don’t believe anyone is** justifying** it-but there is an element of retribution that no one can ignore.

See my post 389…

 

[elgar]

It was Rev. Katherine Ragsdale, an Episcopalian minister and head of a seminary and pro-abortion, who, upon hearing of the killing, proclaimed him a saint or martyr. This was not a satanic priest. Mainline Protestant.

No wonder Mainline Protestantism is DYING rapidly. Ragsdale’s denomination, The Episcopal Church, has caused a major schism within Anglicanism in North America due to statements of this nature and supporting immoral behavior in general.

People like myself have left this heretical church and will soon be part of a reallignment Church that doesn’t fudge on issues of abortion, marriage, homosexual relations, etc. Make sure we continue to make the big distinction between Mainstream and non-Mainstream Protestants, the latter group voting and supporting pro-life causes in higher numbers than most Catholics when including anyone who says they are catholic.

 

[elgar]

---

Wish they would. By supporting abortion, Kathleen Sebelius and other “Catholics” like her, are automatically excommunicated. This means she can still come to church but can’t receive the sacraments. I believe her bishop has spoken to her privately but she hasn’t stopped. Her actions are scandalous.

As a Protestant, what are your feeling re. the Reformed Lutheran Church having Tiller as a member?

The Reformed Lutheran Church–not sure if part of ELCA–but lets say all Lutherans with exceptions being Missouri and Wisconsin synods, are basically pro-choice in their beliefs and even pay for abortions as part of their health insurance plans for their employees. These mainstream Protestants are wrong for taking this position, just as they are wrong for not confronting Tiller in his grave sinning.

Once again, I give credit to the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod for expelling Tiller. I’m quite certain all Missouri Synod churches would do the same thing, and they certainly would not allow such an un-repentant person to partake in their Holy Communion. Compare this to what I came across today in “California Catholic Daily–‘Eight Habits of Highly Effective Bishops’”:

"It’s noteworthy that **faithful Catholics are especially concerned with their bishops’ upholding the pro-life teachings of the Church. Perhaps this is due to a new awareness that our votes really do matter. The American Life League estimates that 70 percent of the Catholic members of Congress **cast pro-abortion votes. If the bishops of the United States fearlessly preach and teach the truth to Catholics in the pews and to the nation that watches what the Church does, that number could change dramatically. And so could the face of America. "

 

[jimpres]

Maybe we should make Fr Corapi a bishop and let him tell it like it is. He does not mince words in his speeches. There are no consequences in our current society, we are to permissive in my view.

 

[wanner47]

From what I can tell, Tiller’s church is called “Reformation Lutheran Church,” not “Reformed,” and it is part of the ELCA.

 

[joe_clark]

I knew this was coming. The person who shot the doctor was quoted in the newspaper today, threatening other doctors who perform abortions. This isn’t going to end well is it?

 

[Agatina]

I knew this was coming. The person who shot the doctor was quoted in the newspaper today, threatening other doctors who perform abortions. This isn’t going to end well is it?

Could it actually get worse than one abortion doctor who performed 60,000 abortions killed?
The killing of the doctor is murder.
The killing of the babies is also, IMO, murder.
Now one very disordered, derranged person makes a rash statement. But are things worse?
All these abortionists have tightened their security by now.
I pray for peace in this situation for everyone, especially for the unborn. The unborn are my primary interest.
What kind of people kill their own children? It is beyond my understanding.
Dear Lord Jesus Please Protect Your Precious Unborn.
Agatina

 

[onetruechurch]

Tiller…a martyr?

I heard on the news recently that a suicide/homicide bomber was ready to blow himself up in the midst of many possible victims but a “real hero” security guard prevented it by sacrificing his own life to “save” the lives of others. That is what a martyr does. He “saves” lives even if it means he has to sacrifice his own life. These so-called suicide martyrs are nothing more than terrorists if they kill themselves while purposely killing others.

Was Tiller killed “saving” others? No. He did, however, put himself in danger by doing a deed that angered many righteous people and also many unstable people. Is doing a deed that angers others a heroic deed if it involves killing 60,000 human beings? He has killed more human beings than any individual so-called terrorist bomber martyr. If the pro-abortionists are calling Tiller a martyr they must mean he is the same type of so-called martyr as the terrorists.