Abortion: Even the non-religious should be against it

[Lypher]

Lypher, I think that was a typo, if I am correct. I think Hooding Trees meant to say “wouldn’t”

President thanks for pointing that out. It makes me believe that man has not fallen as far as I thought… I still pity him, but maybe in the course of a lifetime he will change. You know if he actually did see one he would likely change his mind like most women that have had an abortion eventually do. I will pray for him.

Forest Gump says some mighty fine things you know, Life is like a box of chocolates.

God Bless You…

 

[LittleSoldier]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Is this what happened when you tried to become educated on this subject? You feel asleep?

That explains a lot!

 

[LittleSoldier]

Nonsense, i suggest you open a biology book and look up emergent properties.

Nonsense. The concept of emergent properties does nothing to alter the prolife position that spermatozoa do not have “life” in the same manner as human beings.

What happens to spermatozoa that do not fertilize ova? Do they turn into human beings? Do they reproduce and form an organism? Can a spermatozoan ever dream, eat ice cream, write a play, find a cure for cancer? No. Spermatozoa that don’t fertilize ova degrade. Any sort of “life” they had ends. They are germ cells that are dead ends.

What happens to spermatozoa that fertilize ova? Do the resulting products turn into human beings? No. The resulting products *are *human beings. Do these resulting products degrade? Well I suppose they do. But not like the spermatozoa do. The resulting products are human beings and die, but they die as human beings and hopefully after a long happy life filled with dreams, eating ice cream, and maybe even writing a play and finding a cure for cancer.

Anyway you all seem to miss the point. I personally would want a to see a child aborted, heck I’m a vegetarian. But the fact is i have no right, and you have no right, to tell someone else what to do with there body/life. Much like i would never dream of forcing everyone not to eat meat, even although i think all life is precious. I would never dream of forcing my views on abortion on to others.

I’m assuming it’s a typo you have here and that you really would not want to see a child aborted.

I noticed something in your post. You stated "I personally would [not] want to see a child aborted. You are admitting that what is aborted is a child. She is not a blob of cells - she is a child. You are absolutely correct.

So why is it OK for this child to be aborted? Don’t you care about this child’s life? You say all life is precious. If that’s true, why isn’t this child’s life precious?

 

[Jermosh]

Is this what happened when you tried to become educated on this subject? You feel asleep?

That explains a lot!

ROFL

 

[Hooding_Trees]

Nonsense. The concept of emergent properties does nothing to alter the prolife position that spermatozoa do not have “life” in the same manner as human beings.

What happens to spermatozoa that do not fertilize ova? Do they turn into human beings? Do they reproduce and form an organism? Can a spermatozoan ever dream, eat ice cream, write a play, find a cure for cancer? No. Spermatozoa that don’t fertilize ova degrade. Any sort of “life” they had ends. They are germ cells that are dead ends.

What happens to spermatozoa that fertilize ova? Do the resulting products turn into human beings? No. The resulting products *are *human beings. Do these resulting products degrade? Well I suppose they do. But not like the spermatozoa do. The resulting products are human beings and die, but they die as human beings and hopefully after a long happy life filled with dreams, eating ice cream, and maybe even writing a play and finding a cure for cancer.

I’m assuming it’s a typo you have here and that you really would not want to see a child aborted.

I noticed something in your post. You stated "I personally would [not] want to see a child aborted. You are admitting that what is aborted is a child. She is not a blob of cells - she is a child. You are absolutely correct.

So why is it OK for this child to be aborted? Don’t you care about this child’s life? You say all life is precious. If that’s true, why isn’t this child’s life precious?

Yes a fetus has the potential to grow into a child. However until it does grow it is still a fetus. When should it be classified as a child? I am not sure. However the reason i bring up emergent properties is because until it has developed it has little to none of the properties of a developed human.

like i said i personally would never want to see any pregnancy that i was a part of terminated. However that is not the point, it is not about what i want, it is whether or not i have the right to impose my views on others and in this circumstance i do not believe i do.

Like i said before i do not eat meat. Now lets be honest, at the time a fetus is a few weeks old it is no where near as aware, or as developed as say an adult cow. It cannot feel pain like the cow, it cannot suffer like the cow, and so on. Yet you (presuming you are a meat eater, and if your not i am sure there are many pro lifers that are) feel you have every right to take the life of that animal. Presumably because the fetus has to potential to develop into a human, which you feel makes it better than the cow. On the other hand i think all life is precious.

Much like i do not feel i have the right to impose vegetarianism on every person on earth, i do not think i have the right to impose my views on abortion. So no, i do not think is ok to have a child aborted, and i do not think it is ok to take the life of animals. However i appreciate that i have no right to force others to share my opinions, and i also appreciate that there is a massive difference between a fetus and a developed adult.

 

[Jermosh]

Yes a fetus has the potential to grow into a child. However until it does grow it is still a fetus. When should it be classified as a child? I am not sure. However the reason i bring up emergent properties is because until it has developed it has little to none of the properties of a developed human.

like i said i personally would never want to see any pregnancy that i was a part of terminated. However that is not the point, it is not about what i want, it is whether or not i have the right to impose my views on others and in this circumstance i do not believe i do.

Like i said before i do not eat meat. Now lets be honest, at the time a fetus is a few weeks old it is no where near as aware, or as developed as say an adult cow. It cannot feel pain like the cow, it cannot suffer like the cow, and so on. Yet you (presuming you are a meat eater, and if your not i am sure there are many pro lifers that are) feel you have every right to take the life of that animal. Presumably because the fetus has to potential to develop into a human, which you feel makes it better than the cow. On the other hand i think all life is precious.

Much like i do not feel i have the right to impose vegetarianism on every person on earth, i do not think i have the right to impose my views on abortion. So no, i do not think is ok to have a child aborted, and i do not think it is ok to take the life of animals. However i appreciate that i have no right to force others to share my opinions, and i also appreciate that there is a massive difference between a fetus and a developed adult.

There are massive differances between a infant and an adult, Its either a Human life or its not. If you feel that all life is precios, at what point do you think it does not have the right to life?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Yes a fetus has the potential to grow into a child. However until it does grow it is still a fetus. When should it be classified as a child? I am not sure. However the reason i bring up emergent properties is because until it has developed it has little to none of the properties of a developed human.

But that’s not what you stated. You stated the following:

“I personally would [not] want a to see a child aborted…”

By stating that you are agreeing that what is aborted is a child - not an entity with the potential of becoming a child, but a child at the time she is aborted. Your statement about “until it grows” makes no sense. It grows right from the point of conception. Your statement about why you brought up emergent properties doesn’t make any sense either. You say “it has little to none of the properties of a developed human being.” Which is it? Little or none? And actually, you are quite wrong. The zygote itself has the most important property of a human being and that is her unique DNA (and by that I mean her DNA does not match the DNA of either parent), identifying her as a unique human being and directing her development for the rest of her life (I’m not bringing in the concept of souls here because that is off-topic).

If you start bringing in phases of development or characteristics “human beings” have but these unborn children don’t have, you run into another problem. A newborn infant doesn’t have the properties of a two year-old and a two year-old doesn’t have the properties of a teenager and so on. So when does “it” become a human being? A newborn infant is obviously still growing and developing. Now, you’ve already stated that what is aborted is a child. By that statement it is clear that you understand that what is born is also a child. Are you saying this “child” which is aborted or this “child” which is born is a “child” but not a “human being”?

like i said i personally would never want to see any pregnancy that i was a part of terminated. However that is not the point, it is not about what i want, it is whether or not i have the right to impose my views on others and in this circumstance i do not believe i do.

That’s not what I read. What I read is: “I personally would [not] want a to see a child aborted…” If you stated that you “would never want to see any pregnancy that I was a part of terminated,” it was in another post. Would you please give me the post number? I didn’t see that statement anywhere.

We do have the right to impose our views on others when it comes down to something as important as the life of an innocent human being. Don’t we? Do you think it’s morally acceptable to stand by and do nothing when it is clear that a human being is being murdered or is going to be murdered?

Like i said before i do not eat meat. Now lets be honest, at the time a fetus is a few weeks old it is no where near as aware, or as developed as say an adult cow. It cannot feel pain like the cow, it cannot suffer like the cow, and so on. Yet you (presuming you are a meat eater, and if your not i am sure there are many pro lifers that are) feel you have every right to take the life of that animal. Presumably because the fetus has to potential to develop into a human, which you feel makes it better than the cow. On the other hand i think all life is precious.

I agree with what you are saying at the beginning of the above quote. The fetus is obviously not as developed as an adult cow. She probably isn’t nearly as aware as the cow. I’m not sure about the pain part; I think it may be possible that a fetus at an early stage can feel pain. But, again, we run into a problem here.

-----continued in next post-----

 

[LittleSoldier]

-----continuation of last post-----

What development does an adult cow go through? It is already an adult so it has gone through its life as an unborn calf, as a born calf and is now an adult. What development does an unborn human child go through? An amazing amount. Her organs continue to develop and mature, she continues to become larger and larger, and she develops the capacity to live in the world outside her mother’s womb, albeit with help. After she is born she continues to develop. Her brain becomes more complex, her bones lengthen, she gains weight, the soft spots on her head close, she develops autonomy, she learns to speak, to read and write, she enters puberty and becomes able to reproduce. Does an adult cow go though any of these types of development?

No, it doesn’t. So why are you comparing such obviously different beings, at such obviously different stages of life?

And once again, you being up “potential to develop into a human.” Isn’t a child a human? Didn’t you say you didn’t want to see a child aborted? A child does not have the potential to develop into a human being. That is because she is a human being. She has been a human being ever since the spermatozoan and the ovum merged.

Much like i do not feel i have the right to impose vegetarianism on every person on earth, i do not think i have the right to impose my views on abortion. So no, i do not think is ok to have a child aborted, and i do not think it is ok to take the life of animals. However i appreciate that i have no right to force others to share my opinions, and i also appreciate that there is a massive difference between a fetus and a developed adult.

Thank you for clarifying your position. You agree that abortion is wrong. I want to point out that you do have the right to force others to share your opinions when those opinions reflect universal principles such as the sanctity of human life. If what is aborted is a child, what is aborted is a human being. Abortion kills human beings. Why would you *ever *think it’s OK?

There is a massive difference between a fetus and a developed adult. But both are human beings at stages in their life. No adult every sprung full-grown from his mother’s womb. Every adult started life at conception. You’ve said a fetus is a child. You say you believe all life is precious. What difference does it make what stage a human being happens to be in at the moment?

What would you say to someone who told you that he believed it’s morally acceptable to murder a three year-old child? Would you say “I don’t agree with you, but it’s not my right to force others to share my opinion.” What if he was standing there with a gun and a three year-old and put the gun to the child’s head? Would you say “I don’t agree with you, but it’s not my right to force others to share my opinion.” He shoots the child in the head. This child has been murdered. Do you really think it’s not your right to force others to share your opinion?

It’s more than your right when it comes down to protecting the life you say is so precious - it’s your responsibility.

 

[Lypher]

-----continuation of last post-----

What development does an adult cow go through? It is already an adult so it has gone through its life as an unborn calf, as a born calf and is now an adult. What development does an unborn human child go through? An amazing amount. Her organs continue to develop and mature, she continues to become larger and larger, and she develops the capacity to live in the world outside her mother’s womb, albeit with help. After she is born she continues to develop. Her brain becomes more complex, her bones lengthen, she gains weight, the soft spots on her head close, she develops autonomy, she learns to speak, to read and write, she enters puberty and becomes able to reproduce. Does an adult cow go though any of these types of development?

No, it doesn’t. So why are you comparing such obviously different beings, at such obviously different stages of life?

And once again, you being up “potential to develop into a human.” Isn’t a child a human? Didn’t you say you didn’t want to see a child aborted? A child does not have the potential to develop into a human being. That is because she is a human being. She has been a human being ever since the spermatozoan and the ovum merged.

Thank you for clarifying your position. You agree that abortion is wrong. I want to point out that you do have the right to force others to share your opinions when those opinions reflect universal principles such as the sanctity of human life. If what is aborted is a child, what is aborted is a human being. Abortion kills human beings. Why would you *ever *think it’s OK?

There is a massive difference between a fetus and a developed adult. But both are human beings at stages in their life. No adult every sprung full-grown from his mother’s womb. Every adult started life at conception. You’ve said a fetus is a child. You say you believe all life is precious. What difference does it make what stage a human being happens to be in at the moment?

What would you say to someone who told you that he believed it’s morally acceptable to murder a three year-old child? Would you say “I don’t agree with you, but it’s not my right to force others to share my opinion.” What if he was standing there with a gun and a three year-old and put the gun to the child’s head? Would you say “I don’t agree with you, but it’s not my right to force others to share my opinion.” He shoots the child in the head. This child has been murdered. Do you really think it’s not your right to force others to share your opinion?

It’s more than your right when it comes down to protecting the life you say is so precious - it’s your responsibility.

Little Soldier…Great Post…I wonder if Slavery is bad using the logic above I guess we can say we don’t like it, but we should not stop it if someone else wants to have them? Nope…the morality just does not feel right… which is worse killing…slavery?..

 

[LittleSoldier]

Little Soldier…Great Post…I wonder if Slavery is bad using the logic above I guess we can say we don’t like it, but we should not stop it if someone else wants to have them? Nope…the morality just does not feel right… which is worse killing…slavery?..

I think moral relativism is becoming much more acceptable in our society and that is a tragedy. People seem to be afraid to stand up for their beliefs. They don’t want to offend anyone (and that is good - we shouldn’t want to offend people) but if we decide that morality is personal, that everyone’s morality is good, we have a system which will fall apart.

“I believe in slavery. It’s perfectly fine to me to buy, sell, and work human beings to death. Whipping and torturing them, raping the women, it’s all good.”

That position is not moral. Truth can’t change and it can’t be decided by vote, consensus or anything else. It’s not personal. It’s not subjective. It is unchanging and can’t be decided, only discovered.

I really hope this trend toward moral relativism reverses.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Hi to everyone. I’m making a general announcement in the threads I am participating in. My health has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer participate in the forums.

I apologize for leaving any questions asked of me and points presented to me unanswered.

I do have one request: Please pray for the safety of all unborn children.

Thanks, guys. It’s been wonderful being here and I’ve enjoyed it, learned much, and my faith has been strengthened.

May God bring us all peace…

christina

 

[presidentjlh]

Hi to everyone. I’m making a general announcement in the threads I am participating in. My health has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer participate in the forums.

I apologize for leaving any questions asked of me and points presented to me unanswered.

I do have one request: Please pray for the safety of all unborn children.

Thanks, guys. It’s been wonderful being here and I’ve enjoyed it, learned much, and my faith has been strengthened.

May God bring us all peace…

christina

I hope you are okay! I offer my prayers for your health and for your request for the safety of all unborn children.

I hope that you return in the future.

 

[Lypher]

Hi to everyone. I’m making a general announcement in the threads I am participating in. My health has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer participate in the forums.

I apologize for leaving any questions asked of me and points presented to me unanswered.

I do have one request: Please pray for the safety of all unborn children.

Thanks, guys. It’s been wonderful being here and I’ve enjoyed it, learned much, and my faith has been strengthened.

May God bring us all peace…

christina

Christina,

I have and will pray for you. I will miss you on the boards and hope for your quick recovery or ability to continue to be present here.

God Bless You,

JMN-

 

[CPA2]

A new film has been made about the abortion industry
BLOOD MONEY
PLEASE HELP PROMOTE IT BY FORWARDING TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS!

Dear friends :

The following link is to a new independent film which needs our support to
expose the corruption of Planned Parenthood. The movie is called Blood Money
and in order for the producers to get it into the theaters they need to show
that millions of interested people have visited their website. You need only
visit the website; there is no need to sign-up as a supporter unless you are
compelled to do so. The second link is the trailer for the movie. PLEASE
HELP GET THIS IMPORTANT FILM INTO THEATERS BY VISITING THE WEBSITE, then
forward this to your family and friends! Americans NEED to see this…

**bloodmoneyfilm.com/ **

God bless you!

 

[Redratfish]

I love the argument when pro-abortioners say that if it is banned, it will still go on in dark alley ways. This is true. Abortion, legal or not, will go on forever. However, it doesn’t mean we need to support it. Rape for example. Should it be legal? It still goes on when its illegal. Shouldn’t we provide a room for the rapist so that the women he rapes would be safer than in a alley way? After all, he’s still going to rape someone.

 

[Rich_Clark]

I think that the use of condoms, diaphragms, the “morning-after pill” or any other birth control method other than abortion or the pill, would be the practical way to satisfy both sides of this debate. Pregnancy is prevented, so there is no need for abortion which is so repulsive to pro-lifers, yet sexual pleasure is available for those who don’t have the will power to say no, as recommended by “presidentjlh”.

 

[Rich_Clark]

People say, “Oh, but what about overpopulation?!”

Okay, what about overpopulation? Is abortion the only answer to that? Is birth control the only answer to that?

What ever happened to, you know, not having sex? You know, keeping your pants zipped up, protecting your virginity, practicing abstinence?

What’s that? People have sexual urges? They don’t want to bother fighting them? Oh, how unfortunate, I guess their right to sexual pleasure is more important than a human being’s right to life. I feel so bad for those people.

The fact that people are that weak, are that pathetic, that they can’t even show some self-control and remain unlatched from another person’s crotch, is simply just sad. It’s called growing up, being mature, having some responsibility. You know, putting others ahead of yourself?

Why is it a good thing for people to be completely controlled by their urges and impulses? Isn’t it bad to just do whatever you feel like you wanna do? Isn’t that really having less freedom than being in control of your urges and impulses? People act like self-control is some sort of limitation, when really, it is an indication that one has great willpower and is able to act based on reason.

Now, am I saying that I think people that let their sexual urges control them or occasionally fall to those urges are bad people? No. They aren’t bad people. I realize self-control is a difficult thing to do. But just because something is difficult doesn’t mean there is no point in trying to master it. I know that no one’s perfect. But that doesn’t make it an excuse. You still should put some effort into it.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m the misguided one. Maybe I am limited by self-control.

But, I still think that there’s some good, non-religious reasons for chastity.

Great use of limited logic here. Pose a question and then supply a self-serving answer. What about overpopulation? Chastity! As if sexual pleasure were not a God-given right, as is the God-given right to life. OK, you regard abortion as the moral equivalent of murder, fine. Then you should be crusading for the use of condoms, diaphragms, masturbation and so on, rather than expect that chastity is gonna solve the overpopulation problem. If you think about it, there are two, and ONLY two ways to solve that problem: (1) decrease the birth rate or (2) increase the death rate. If you reject the first (decrease the birth rate) that means that you’re locked into the second (increase the death rate). Unless, that is, you don’t regard overpopulation as worthy of concern at all. But if you do, then posing the solution to it as chastity is ludicrous. People follow their God-given instincts and sexual pleasure is the reason why the human race has not gone extinct millions of years ago. As a God-given instinct, it cannot be switched on and off like a light bulb. We’re all born with it, it’s in our DNA, an integral part of our character. If you consider the plight of the poverty-stricken people in the undeveloped world, who have no TV, no education, barely enough food, none of the many comforts that we Americans take for granted, sex is just about the only form of distraction from their pain that’s available to them. Preaching chastity to them as the solution to their overpopulation problem is simply silly. Haiti is a good example. There is clearly an overpopulation problem in Haiti, which is why so many people died in the recent earthquake. Over 200,000 people died and the whole world lamented that tragedy. Rightly so. But death is how Nature balances the equation between the level of population and the available resources. This is true of any living species, not only us humans. If you refuse to accept some form of birth control, then you’re forced to accept such die-offs. If not from earthquakes, then from starvation, lack of medical care, AIDS, and all the other lethal attacks to which humans are vulnerable. That is Nature’s way, and chastity is not a fix.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

presidentjlh, I have thought a lot about abortion and while I once opposed abortion for the simple reason that fetuses are human beings and it intuitively seems very wrong to kill a human being, I now do not think there are any good secular reasons for opposing abortion (at least when done early in the pregnancy).

In order to determine whether abortion is wrong, we first need to consider what makes human life valuable. I see no good secular reasons to think that the mere possession of a particular type of DNA gives something enormous moral value. I don’t believe a supernatural granting of moral value happens at conception and don’t see why we should see a single human cell with 46 chromosomes that could eventually become an adult human as far more valuable than two human cells with 23 chromosomes that could eventually become an adult human.

If the value of human life is found in a God-given soul which has inherent moral value, then it’s easy to see why abortion would be problematic (though not necessarily always wrong, as I think Judith Jarvis Thomson’s violinist argument does a good job of demonstrating). If however, value comes from our ability to think, reason, love, experience pain and joy, and interact with the world in a way that brings happiness to ourselves and those around us, then a human zygote does not yet have nearly as much value as you or me. If there was a fire in a building and I only had time to save either a child or a test tube with two zygotes in it, I would not hesitate to save the child.

I’m sure that there have been many geniuses who were never born because their parents got an abortion. I’m sure that there have been many serial murderers who were never born because their parents got an abortion. I’m sure there were even more potential geniuses and murderers who were never born because their parents had sex a minute too early or a minute too late, or decided not to have more children. I don’t think we have a moral obligation to create as many humans as physically possible, and I actually think such an attitude would have very negative consequences.

What ever happened to, you know, not having sex? You know, keeping your pants zipped up, protecting your virginity, practicing abstinence?
…
Why is it a good thing for people to be completely controlled by their urges and impulses? Isn’t it bad to just do whatever you feel like you wanna do? Isn’t that really having less freedom than being in control of your urges and impulses? People act like self-control is some sort of limitation, when really, it is an indication that one has great willpower and is able to act based on reason.

You are wrong to assume that people who have sex outside of marriage do so because they cannot control their urges. What if someone has enormous self-control but reasons that there is nothing wrong about having sex? I don’t think sex is immoral and don’t see virginity as some kind of valuable state that should be protected. I happen to be a virgin, but if I choose to have sex with someone I care about, that will not make me any more or less valuable. I would not be losing anything of value and would be the same person after as I was before with all the same virtues and flaws.

 

[Lypher]

presidentjlh, I have thought a lot about abortion and while I once opposed abortion for the simple reason that fetuses are human beings and it intuitively seems very wrong to kill a human being, I now do not think there are any good secular reasons for opposing abortion (at least when done early in the pregnancy)…

An Opinion from an Evil Atheist…

In order to determine whether abortion is wrong, we first need to consider what makes human life valuable. …

Lets see your hourly wage x number of hours of work per year times the average age of a person that fits your profile… Is it really that simple…because that is how I would value you, IF we do not agree that human life has some intrinsic value for being seperated from dogs…

I see no good secular reasons to think that the mere possession of a particular type of DNA gives something enormous moral value.

I do…see above answer…

I don’t believe a supernatural granting of moral value happens at conception and don’t see why we should see a single human cell with 46 chromosomes that could eventually become an adult human as far more valuable than two human cells with 23 chromosomes that could eventually become an adult human…

All answered above… How much are you worth…??

If the value of human life is found in a God-given soul which has inherent moral value, then it’s easy to see why abortion would be problematic (though not necessarily always wrong, as I think Judith Jarvis Thomson’s violinist argument does a good job of demonstrating). If however, value comes from our ability to think, reason, love, experience pain and joy, and interact with the world in a way that brings happiness to ourselves and those around us, then a human zygote does not yet have nearly as much value as you or me. If there was a fire in a building and I only had time to save either a child or a test tube with two zygotes in it, I would not hesitate to save the child…

Unealistic example…lets use this example… a pregnant women and you in a burning building… I know who I would rescue…

I’m sure that there have been many geniuses who were never born because their parents got an abortion. I’m sure that there have been many serial murderers who were never born because their parents got an abortion. I’m sure there were even more potential geniuses and murderers who were never born because their parents had sex a minute too early or a minute too late, or decided not to have more children. I don’t think we have a moral obligation to create as many humans as physically possible, and I actually think such an attitude would have very negative consequences…

Your opinion… I think God would provide us a solution either her or somewhere else, maybe one of the kids that we did not abort would be the scientist?

You are wrong to assume that people who have sex outside of marriage do so because they cannot control their urges. .

Just as wrong as you are too assume that all people that have sex out of wed-lock have made a rational decision. Kinda like a teenager that says Peer pressure is not a factor in their life. Then again maybe you are an Evil Atheist that not only doe not believe in God but is actually Evil and you chose would believe that it is ok to impregnant women and then kill the children. I do not know you, but the ethics and morals that you seem to agree with would allow for this? Maybe I misunderstand you?

What if someone has enormous self-control but reasons that there is nothing wrong about having sex? .

What if someone has enormous self-control but reasons that there is nothing wrong with have 20 children out of wedlock with different women?

I don’t think sex is immoral and don’t see virginity as some kind of valuable state that should be protected…

Sex is not immoral if in the state of marriage. Often children of wealthy people do not understand the value of their inheritance until it is spent. Some don’t know the value of a family until they have destroyed it.

I happen to be a virgin, but if I choose to have sex with someone I care about, that will not make me any more or less valuable.

Good for you. You have been given, and still possess, something of value that you may not yet appreciate, but if you keep it for your spouse you will understand just how much of a precious gift you have given, not only to them, but also for yourself. Then agian you can throw it away… Your call…

I would not be losing anything of value and would be the same person after as I was before with all the same virtues and flaws.

Well what is jumping on the moon like? Did it change you when you felt weightlessness for the first time? Well you comments are from that perspective. You do not yet know just how valuable your virginity is, and it IS, you can ONLY give it to one person. And you WILL be changed by that event, just how depends on the person you give it to…If the act is out of love you will grow in love, if it is out of something else then you will reap what you sow… This is NOT rocket science, but it is life. You will NEVER forget that moment, why not continue to treasure it for someone you intend on keeping for life?

 

[Polycarp1]

While horrible the real tragedy of abortion is not the murder of the unborn but the spiritual death that abortion results in for those living who support abortion.

We can entrust the souls of the babies into the loving arms of Mary and we know that whatever happens to them will bear the marks of God’s compassion, love and justice. We need not be concerned further for them, they are safe. It is for those who have hardened their hearts to the point where they could obtain, perform or support abortion who are really at risk of eternal damnation that it for them that we should really be concerned.

The young girl who goes in for abortion is not only killing a baby she is quite likely killing herself spiritually for all eternity. The abortionists has come to the point where they value money more than life. The pro-choice people have lost the capacity to feel genuine compassion for their fellowman and have been deceived into thinking that killing is okay as long as it has been ruled legal and happens in a private and sanitary environment. This is the real horror of abortion, that so many of our fellowmen and women are being lost for all eternity!

These are our brothers and sisters that we are called upon to love, forgive and pray for.