Abortion is genocide

[francisca.chapter3]

Certain sins being worse than others has been a tenet of Catholicism for a long time. Why would there be any distinguishing between mortal and venial sins if none were greater than another?

To make profit by making porn is no less sinful than the women who in desperation decide to abort her pregnancy. And those who support this unscrupulous greedy business are no less sinful than having abortion.

Adultery of the eye is adultery of the heart, said Jesus. And watching porn isn’t mere adultery of the eye & heart. People who watch porn do somerhing physical to their own body too.

Adultery & abortion are both mortal sin.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I don’t disagree. Which is why I’m glad that Indian tribes with Federal recognition in the United States can Outlaw abortion clinics, this happened with one of the Sioux tribes on their reservations but I don’t remember which one. I don’t understand though, why can tribal sovereignty get rid of it, but State sovereignty can’t?

 

[JSRG]

I don’t disagree. Which is why I’m glad that Indian tribes with Federal recognition in the United States can Outlaw abortion clinics, this happened with one of the Sioux tribes on their reservations but I don’t remember which one. I don’t understand though, why can tribal sovereignty get rid of it, but State sovereignty can’t?

It’s complicated, but the quick version is that tribal sovereignty differs from state sovereignty in a number of ways. For example, while the Fourteenth Amendment gives birth citizenship to those born in the United States, it does NOT grant it to those born on reservations. Now, that right was later granted under a later law, but it’s an example of how constitutional rules that apply to states do not necessarily apply to the reservations.

 

[Annie]

State sovereignty in the US meaning of state, is limited by their union with the federation of states.

The sovereignty of states in the United States is limited by their membership in the federation of the US.

The sovereignty of Native American reservations is akin to that of other nations at the level of our federal government.

 

[Annie]

Adultery & abortion are both mortal sin.

However, with adultery some measure of restitution can be made. With abortion, a life has been taken and cannot be brought back.

 

[Pattylt]

One thing I noticed first is that most of the reasons listed after the first one…not ready, timing wrong… also lead to not ready, timing wrong.

I can’t afford a child also means not ready, timing wrong. Feel I’m too young also means not ready, timing wrong…see what I mean? I wonder how the questions were asked or listed. Was it, feel free to write in your reason or was it check the box? Could someone list more than one reason as often there are?

I think people often want clear black and white categories to place these women into and it isn’t a black and white situation. I hope somewhere there is deeper research into abortion decisions.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

However, with adultery some measure of restitution can be made. With abortion, a life has been taken and cannot be brought back.

I agree. Which is why it becomes urgent to also address why there are many demands for abortions.

I believe adoption pipeline has limited capacity. Woman’s capability to carry term has limited capacity too. Pregnancy is heavy on womans health. Some women go through postpartum depression shows how heavy it is to carry term.

Religious teaching that fails to recognize this fact is one lack of compassion toward woman (& her family) in its formulation. For example, if a married couple has many children, how is it wrong to use contraception within the marriage? A good moral teaching must include compassion in it. A good catholic husband who knows his wife is getting old and tired, would he prefer to follow a perfect moral teaching that lacks compassion for his tired wife? Ideally, nfp. But what if things are not ideal in this world, and nfp doesn’t work for this couple?

Similarly, thinking that merely forcing women to carry term while allowing porn do business as usual, and probably some even take part in it, is a partial moral teaching that lacks compassion & care towards woman & her family. When things are not perfect in this world, demanding perfection from some but extremely permissive toward others is just simply oppressive. And this oppressive attitude toward woman is the bad spirit that push many women, despite knowing they aren’t ready for sex & pregnancy, they have sex anyway.

Why women have abortion? Because of the same bad spirit of lack of compassion.

 

[grzzz]

What are the reasons women have abortions…
The one commonality that I saw in the list is putting yourself ahead of others. In other words, ‘selfishness’. Almost all the reasons listed can have the word ‘I’ placed in front. Examples of “I’m not…”, “I don’t want…”, “I don’t feel…”, etc. The concern is ‘me’, ‘me’, ‘me’.

What about the child? Don’t they have a say?

My mother had me in the 1960s when she was in her late 40’s. My parents didn’t have much money. She thought she completed her childbearing. There were physical complications with a pregnancy at her age. The timing was wrong. The doctors told her that there were possible problems affecting the health of the fetus.

Thank God I was born.

Thanks, mom, for all you did and all you sacrificed for me…

 

[Freddy]

gracepoole:

Women who have abortions are worse than rapists?

As a Catholic , I only say what actions are worse than others, not what actors. That would be casting stones. But you are free to.

So if a guy parks illegally in front of your house and another rapes and murders your children you are not in a position to say who is the worst sinner.

Yeah. It’s a tough one.

 

[Zach]

The acts of abortion and rape are both evil. The rapist’s intentions are always evil. The rapist has no excuses. There is no ambiguity in the law or culture concerning rape. The woman getting an abortion does not necessarily have evil intentions. She might be young, naive or confused or desperate or brainwashed by a culture that accepts abortion.

 

[Aquinas11]

Yeah. It’s a tough one.

No, rape/murder is far worse than illegally parking. But you are free to see them as the same.

The rapist’s intentions are always evil. The rapist has no excuses. There is no ambiguity in the law or culture concerning rape.

So you’re basing whether someone has evil intent on whether “the law or culture” provides “ambiguity”.

So white person who lives in 1850 USA can kill a black man for racial reasons and may not have evil intent since “the law or culture” provides “ambiguity” for white on black killing.

 

[Zach]

If they were completely brainwashed and didn’t know any better I suppose their intent wouldn’t be clear. I was comparing abortion and rape in today’s culture. There could be instances where a young teen might not even realize that abortion is evil due to it’s acceptance in the culture.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Yeah. It’s a tough one.

No, rape/murder is far worse than illegally parking. But you are free to see them as the same.

We aren’t discussing the act. As you well know. We are discussing the actor. According to you, you are not in any position to determine which is worst: the illegal parker or the murderer/rapist.

You must be the only person who isn’t. Maybe you’d like to reconsider your statement.

 

[Aquinas11]

We aren’t discussing the act.

Of course we are, you responded to a post that said

As a Catholic , I only say what actions are worse than others,

Now I note in your response you said “its a tough one” regarding whether rape/murder is worse than parking. This may be unconscious admission of that lack of an objective moral basis for morality we’ve discussed.

 

[Aquinas11]

If they were completely brainwashed and didn’t know any better I suppose their intent wouldn’t be clear.

Ok so now its something other than ambiguity in law/culture that determines evil intent, now its whether they’re “completely brainwashed and didn’t know any better” which I’ve no idea what that means.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

We aren’t discussing the act.

Of course we are, you responded to a post that said

As a Catholic , I only say what actions are worse than others,

Now I note in your response you said “its a tough one” regarding whether rape/murder is worse than parking. This may be unconscious admission of that lack of an objective moral basis for morality we’ve discussed.

If you can’t recognise sarcasm thenyou are in for a torrid time posting in forums. And we were talking about actors. You have actually included your comment that you could only comment on the act. That you were unable to state whether one actor is worse than another.

How can you deny your own comments when you actually repost them yourself?

So again, if we have an illegal parker and a rapist/murderer, you cannot determine which of those two people are the more evil.

This is the point where you could say that we don’t know anything else about the two. That the illegal parker might also be a mass murderer. Which would be a pretty ridiculous card to play. But it’s your only option.

 

[Aquinas11]

If you can’t recognise sarcasm thenyou are in for a torrid time posting in forums

During discussions, you’ve communicated no objective basis for morality so why would I presume sarcasm when I read “its a tough one” on whether rape is worse than illegal parking? Could be serious for all I know.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

If you can’t recognise sarcasm thenyou are in for a torrid time posting in forums

During discussions, you’ve communicated no objective basis for morality so why would I presume sarcasm when I read “its a tough one” on whether rape is worse than illegal parking? Could be serious for all I know.

As I said, if you can’t recognise sarcastic remarks then you really might think that one can’t differentiate between raping someone and overstaying a few minutes in a parking zone.

But you’d be the only person on the planet who missed it. ‘Gee, Freddy is either a psycopath or he was being sarcastic. How am I supposed to tell. After all, he is an atheist and therefore has no objective basis for morality’.

Was that post meant seriously?

 

[Aquinas11]

But you’d be the only person on the planet who missed it. ‘Gee, Freddy is either a psycopath or he was being sarcastic. How am I supposed to tell. After all, he is an atheist and therefore has no objective basis for morality’.

I know many Athiests who aren’t psychopaths, they just don’t have objective basis of morality , so its probably not good to generalize them like that. But no you don’t seem like a psychopath.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

But you’d be the only person on the planet who missed it. ‘Gee, Freddy is either a psycopath or he was being sarcastic. How am I supposed to tell. After all, he is an atheist and therefore has no objective basis for morality’.

I know many Athiests who aren’t psychopaths, they just don’t have objective basis of morality , so its probably not good to generalize them like that. But no you don’t seem like a psychopath.

So we are left with you suggesting that you can’t tell who the more evil person is. The inconsiderate parker or the rapist. All things being equal is that still your position?