Abortion Rights Supporters in Congress to Receive Communion

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I’m a little confused here. A man marries a woman and has a family and then decides to divorce his wife and abandon his family after 15 years of marriage, since he prefers the single life. You tell me that it is not a sin to refuse to live up to your family and marriage committments? Where did you hear this teaching?
I did not say the man did not commit a sin. I said DIVORCED people can still receive the Sacraments, presuming that all other criteria for worthily receiving are in place. IOW, divorce in itself is not a sin. How do I know? I am divorced, and a Catholic in good standing. I am not remarried.

Bobzills, I wish you would focus on the message, and stop pointing out exceptions as if they were the rule.
And further, what is the meaning of the word “sermon”?
You are obviously not a practicing Catholic or you would known that when the priest talks to his flock after the Gospel, it is called a “homily” not a “sermon.”

*At present there are four recognized ways of treating the homily, but not all to be equally commended.

** The first method consists in treating separately each sentence of the Gospel**. It is not to be recommended, for it gives, at best, but a fragmentary and scattered treatment.
The second method …focuses the entire content of the Gospel in a single idea. It is usually called the “higher homily”, It is clear that only certain Gospels can be treated in this way.
The third kind selects some virtue or vice arising out of the Gospel, and treats one or the other to the exclusion of all else. This kind of homily is commonly called a “prone”.
The fourth kind is that which first paraphrases and explains the entire Gospel, and then makes an application of it. This…seems, except where the “higher homily” applies, to be the best, because it can guard against the besetting defect of the homily, namely, a tendency to lack of unity and continuity.*

newadvent.org/cathen/07448a.htm

The first option is what a sermon is, where the preacher can pick whatever verse he choses and rant on them. The Catholic Church teaches that the priest must reference the day’s readings to his preaching. IOW, the priest can’t just focus on St. Paul and rant about his writings, like some fundamentalist preachers do.

Again, I wish you would focus on the message, and not the renegades who publicly flout Church Teaching, hoping to distract the bishops from their duties of shepherding their flocks.

I get the feeling you are not here for understanding but for condemning.
If the Pope beleives what he says about the reception of communion, what the church teaches, then why at least at his Mass can this not be enforced?!
What do you want the Pope to do? Get the seating assignment of all the pro-abortion people, then scrutinize the priests who are giving out Communion in those sections with his binoculars, and if he sees an abuse, stop the mass and run over there and slap the hand that is giving Communion to them (hopefully he’ll get there on time) and excommunicate them on the spot? Maybe he could have had a Swiss Guard stand at every Communion station to make sure that each person going to communion professed conformity to Church Teaching before receiving.

Everyone has a free will. The Pope told his priests pro-abortion people are not to receive communion. The priests did it anyway, and Pelosi et al received anyway. The Pope is not a puppeteer pulling strings to force people to do what is right. Even Jesus was disobeyed and betrayed. The Pope did not come here to swat at every gnat. He came here on an apostolic mission. When he gets back to business in the Vatican he can deal with theses abuses. And he has, as has been previously posted.
If it has not already been mentioned on this thread, the Pope spoke eloquently on this very topic while he was here.
QUOTE=Sham7;3585504] Even catholic women got abortions when it was illegal and when it was immoral in their own faith. Women will make wrong choices no matter what the circumstance no different than us men. The fact that people will do something anyway, does not mean it should be legal. Murder, robbery, are illegal and people do it anyway. Should we decriminalize them?
You mentioned an example of a prom queen aborting a baby,
but ignored or avoided the horrific horrors of war! There are so few prom queens, but so many young ones especially who have died in wars for seriously wrong reasons by governments. We humans sin in letting it get to this point. We all participate in “Pro death”, if you will. I do not disagree with our Faith in JESUS and His church, but it is not always so simple as politics involves helping all as much as humanly possible and we are instructed to, "give unto
The reason I brought this up is that it is perfectly legal that she do this. It is not a human being, so why are people outraged?
but so many young ones especially who have died in wars for seriously wrong reasons by governments. We humans sin in letting it get to this point. We all participate in “Pro death”, if you will.
War is sometimes a necessary evil. I don’t know to which wrong reasons you are referring, but I will say we can’t just stand by and watch a dictator slaughter an entire ethnic group (Hitler, Saddam Husein, Milosovic). We are the richest nation on earth, and we should do all we can to help bring justice to the world.

Until we respect life at it’s very beginnings, we will never eradicate war. The US has never been an instigator of mass genocide, except in the case of the unborn.

Sometimes you have to die for what you believe in…

Who said, “All men die, some men live before they die.”
 
I would contend that the war in Iraq is not a necessary evil.
Catholics who support this War may be compared to those who call themselves “ProChoice” whom the same catholics who support this evil war condemn! Shame on your double standard and I will not take no for an answer.

Admit when you are wrong(Iraq), ask forgiveness, and repent.

Don’t you want the same for those whom you think are wrong with their stance on “ProChoice”? of course

end of discussion,
sham7

PS The war in Iraq is not justifiable by our leadership both now and before(PPII). hmmmmm, think they know the Faith?
 
I would contend that the war in Iraq is not a necessary evil.
Catholics who support this War may be compared to those who call themselves “ProChoice” whom the same catholics who support this evil war condemn! Shame on your double standard and I will not take no for an answer.

Admit when you are wrong(Iraq), ask forgiveness, and repent.

Don’t you want the same for those whom you think are wrong with their stance on “ProChoice”? of course
Without commenting on whether I agree or disagree with your position on the war in Iraq, that issue is irrelevant to the topic. The only question for this thread is the appropriateness of the reception of communion by political figures who publicly support the legal right to an abortion.

Ender
 
Catholics who support this War may be compared to those who call themselves “ProChoice” whom the same catholics who support this evil war condemn! Shame on your double standard and I will not take no for an answer.
Unbelievable.

Sham, you desparately need to beef up on your Catholic social doctrine. Catholic Answers has many resources available; please use them.

Here’s a good place to start. It’s a piece by Jimmy Akin:
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0503fea2.asp

You also might want to familiarize yourself with this quote from Cardinal Ratzinger, one year before he was elected to the papacy:

"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."
end of discussion,
You’ve got that right.
 
Unbelievable.

Sham, you desparately need to beef up on your Catholic social doctrine. Catholic Answers has many resources available; please use them.

Here’s a good place to start. It’s a piece by Jimmy Akin:
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0503fea2.asp

You also might want to familiarize yourself with this quote from Cardinal Ratzinger, one year before he was elected to the papacy:

"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."

You’ve got that right.
Thank you!
 
Giving public scandal?

I’m told the priest here used this this past Sunday to affirm his giivng “open” communion. Which he has apparently does anyway but he has support in the communion services of the Pope in Washington and St.Parick’s now.

The public scandal? Like what is that? Its a joke joke really. Don’t you all get it? The Pope doesn’t believe, the bishops don’t and of course the priests don’t. None are honoring or being obedient to Paul’s Scriptual admonition on the Eucharist.

Read Scripture. Paul would condemn them all. Yet American Cathlics settle for this lukewarness.

I think you need to rethink your Catholic faith. The Pope, the bishops - they are in denial of Paul and Scripture. certainly on the Eucharist. They have eyes but don’t see?! How can anyone excuse this apostasy on the part of the Pope and bishops and priests this past week?

False prohpets? IMO you are being “zoomed” by all of them
 
I think the post referred to whether one could accept the sacrament of Communion. I don’t think anyone would say that the husband abandoning his family did not sin. But consider the divorced wife then, is she to be barred from receiving communion? As long as she does not marry again, it is my understanding that she is not barred. And as for the husband, as long as he does not marry again, and confesses his sin, I believe the Church allows him to accept communion as well.
The claim was made that it is not a sin to get a divorce? I thought that was the claim. I don’t think that this is always true, and I gave an example of when I thought it would be a sin for someone to get a divorce.
 
Giving public scandal?

I’m told the priest here used this this past Sunday to affirm his giivng “open” communion. Which he has apparently does anyway but he has support in the communion services of the Pope in Washington and St.Parick’s now.

The public scandal? Like what is that? Its a joke joke really. Don’t you all get it? The Pope doesn’t believe, the bishops don’t and of course the priests don’t. None are honoring or being obedient to Paul’s Scriptual admonition on the Eucharist.

Read Scripture. Paul would condemn them all. Yet American Cathlics settle for this lukewarness.

I think you need to rethink your Catholic faith. The Pope, the bishops - they are in denial of Paul and Scripture. certainly on the Eucharist. They have eyes but don’t see?! How can anyone excuse this apostasy on the part of the Pope and bishops and priests this past week?

False prohpets? IMO you are being “zoomed” by all of them
What you are saying has some truth to it, because nowadays, at least in the local Churches here, just about everyone goes up to receive holy Communion, whereas at the same time, we read that a large percentage of Catholics are practicing artificial birth control.
 
What you are saying has some truth to it, because nowadays, at least in the local Churches here, just about everyone goes up to receive holy Communion, whereas at the same time, we read that a large percentage of Catholics are practicing artificial birth control.
That is my point. The visit by the Pope has given great public scandal. In terms of the Eucharist. And already on Sunday at parishes in this admittedly liberal diocese, some priests are affirming their “open communion” based on the Washington Mass of the Pope.

The homilies are directed to the “seamless garment” - which the Pope basically focused on. Not abortion. But by the one time time the Pope mentionned th “unborn”’ - an afterthought in his NYC Mass - well the focus was on the seamless garment. Overall this will, IMO, be a major boost for the Dems in the fall. His repeted inistence on rights for illegal immigrants. No, he did not make that distinction. He made no distinction.

A very troubling and politically correct visit which IMO will drivie more of the remnant of orthodox believers to Orthodoxy or one of the various traditionalist breakaways.Just look at the orthodox/traditonalist blogs - they are not buying the EWTN whitewash of this visit. Look at the secular media - suprisingly happy with the visit. The Pope did not lecture Catholic Univesity presidents, “force” abortion. But instead focused on “humanism”

The current issue of CWR has a piece on the defacto schism of the English bishops. A new head bishop of England will soon be appointed but the CWR worries the Vatican will not make the radical change needed to save English Catholisim - in the new appointment. That will be a key test. If Pope Benedict plays the bishop game as JP2 did for 20 plus years then I think you need to question his belief and if you question his belief - well that opens all kinds of doors does it not.
 
The replies that I get are preaching to the choir

I urge you to examine the fact that I am for eradicating
abortion and making it illegal will not achieve that end.

I believe that a divine solution is necessary.

In the meantime we must as Christ put it, “Render under Caesar what is … and render unto God what is God’s”!

I am trapped with the realities of one party promoting War, Big Business, and Big Tobbacco(all not “ProLife” views) and the other allowing one the ability to do as Jesus did and keep the government out of deciding for a woman whether or not she should have an abortion. I do believe that we need to continue to educate women and all about the choice that they may make with regard to even considering an abortion. I don’t think the solution is a legal one as it did not prevent women from getting them throughout history.
Even catholic women got abortions when it was illegal and when it was immoral in their own faith. Women will make wrong choices no matter what the circumstance no different than us men. I agree that we all need to keep forming our consciences to be compatible with what Jesus wants for us and all. I too will defend the unborn, but I will not force my view on others. Why? Well, my role model, Jesus, was that way and that is good enough for me. He said, “Come follow me” and he turned and walked. He never forced anyone to do things His way. I like people to do things my way, much like most people, but I really admire one who operates like Jesus and just puts it out there and walks. If this sounds simplistic, well so be it, but I trust in Jesus for the answers and not our egos or our interpretations of our faith/Church for the automatic answers. There are no answers without God’s divine intervention on this subject. In the meantime
I will continue to pray for some better human ways of dealing with the matter of the unborn being unprotected.
It is a tough issue for me, as it is for you too, but how we go about effecting change is quite different.

Amen and peace be to you and yours,
sham7
In the meantime Sham7 why don’t you, if you haven’t already, volunteer at a Birthright Crisis Center, collect clothing for women and babies to donate to Birthright. There are many things we can do that through our actions people are able to see what we believe in. 🙂 Peace
 
Wouldn’t it be dandy if the pro abortion politicians were pulled aside before mass started and told to refrane from coming forward?

What message will this send to the faithful when they see these politicians receive communion and basically tell the world that there is no visible consequence for outright dissention? Why is it so hard to confront these politicians with the TRUTH and hand down the consequence?
I think that would be a great idea, pro abortion, pro-choice, no communion.
 
Wouldn’t it be dandy if the pro abortion politicians were pulled aside before mass started and told to refrane from coming forward?

What message will this send to the faithful when they see these politicians receive communion and basically tell the world that there is no visible consequence for outright dissention? Why is it so hard to confront these politicians with the TRUTH and hand down the consequence?
My question is this::confused: Does the pope look like a hypocrite when he gives communion to those politicians that brazenly and openly go against the church’s teachings? After all, he is to stand up to the sins of the world, not just push them under the rug. Besides, how many good Catholics can’t take communion because of issues within the church?😦
I don’t “think” the Pope did the Communion thing. It happened at the Altar of God by another prelate who was supposedly celebrating the Sacrifice of the Mass. Feel free to correct me, if I am wrong about this, but this is what I remember. 🙂 Peace.
 
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9037ITO1&show_article=1

You have to zoom in on this image. Look at Holy Father’s face! And Condy Rice.

This is literally a picture of hypocricy and absurdity. It should be what pops up when you google the words ‘confused politician’.

I tried to insert the picture itself but Im a dummy when it comes to computers can someone please do that. Then we can all come up with what we think the caption should read…like…

“Please Don’t Bite”:eek:
Bush is saying, “The SHADOW knows”.
 
Why is this a picture of hypocrisy and absurdity as opposed to cordiality and what has this to do with the topic of the thread? The Bush’s aren’t Catholic and won’t be in the communion line - unlike the pro-abortion politicians who shouldn’t be there either but apparently will be. Which is the greater example of hypocrisy?

Ender
I don’t think anyone was talking about dubya. 😉
 
being a pro choice voter does not mean that one personally
believes in a “pro abortion” position

Let’s face it there are both sides of the isle voting to fund abortions for the poor, etc.

I want no abortion and no war/s! Both lofty and good Catholic ideals to strive for, ok? tks
Didn’t Jesus say, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s”? Seems to me the Pro-Choice people are also giving what belongs to God to Caesar if they can so rationalize through following only the secular law, the killing of an unborn infant.
 
being a pro choice voter does not mean that one personally
believes in a “pro abortion” position

Let’s face it there are both sides of the isle voting to fund abortions for the poor, etc.

I want no abortion and no war/s! Both lofty and good Catholic ideals to strive for, ok? tks
Kerry and Dodd were photographed receiving Holy Communion. Kennedy dutifully stayed in his seat at Communion.

There were no EMHCs used at any papal Masses, thank the Lord! The plan was to use them and the Holy Father got wind of it and said, ‘no way’.
Okay I give, wht are EMHCs? Thanks.
 
Whats the problem? the preist performing the communion should refuse to give it. if he does give it to them knowingthat they are pro abortion. then he should be relieved of his duties. simple as that really.
 
Whats the problem? the preist performing the communion should refuse to give it. if he does give it to them knowingthat they are pro abortion. then he should be relieved of his duties. simple as that really.
My impression is that there is more than one Catholic priest who is in favor of “open communion”.
 
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