ABP Vigano writes third letter

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Where does it say, “On thus and such a date, Cardinal Weurl was informed …”
 
Ostiarius said:
Not so. Not at all. His last letter was elegantly crafted. Quite a bit different from his first two. It made me wonder if he changed editors, of if he simply now has the time to further burnish what he writes?
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Everything he has released has come through a journalist, so there is at least one more layer for change or uncertainty. None of his letters sound like anything a bishop would write. The dubia was mentioned. For those who read that and remember it, that is how bishops write.
 
1Lord1Faith said:
But I think the part about homosexuality in the clergy was unnecessary.
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It seems to me this is the most important point in the entire series of letters: overwhelmingly the damage done to the church was the result of homosexual activities of priests aided, engaged in, and covered up by bishops. Unless this issue is addressed and resolved this situation will simply recur.
pnewton said:
I was unimpressed with the letter. It is the same claims made earlier, with additional rhetoric. Whether he is “courageous” or “divisive” remains to be seen. I guess he could be both, or neither.
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I think he understands the consequences of speaking out…and of remaining silent.

I believe that my continued silence would put many souls at risk, and would certainly damn my own.
 
So you think it is a stragegy. Is this what you are saying?
If so,and since you have related it to the Dubia, would it be possible to say that this isn t personal but a groupal strategy ?
And this I say because I am not aware that Mons Vigano was related to the Dubia.
I should read the first letter again,just in case I missed something about this.
I have time today.
 
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WOW!!! That was a powerful response by Archbishop Vigano. You can clearly see the tone in which he writes is one of truth and certainty. His words are direct and exact, with nothing left open to ambiguity or vagueness. This letter, much like his first, isn’t meant to generalize or to give a cursory explanation of the problems plaguing our Church, in essence, it isn’t a broadsword meant to hack and slash. This letter cuts more like a scalpel, meant to be precise and focused.

It leaves little room for doubt, concerning what his intentions are.
 
I don’t know about you guys, but I think its great to get this all out in the open… it sure makes evangelization easier. There would be no way I would be able get some people to consider entering the Church in the state it’s currently in - there is too much ambiguity - and no. becoming more ‘Protestant’ is not the answer. Some clearing up needs to happen with what’s been going on in the last decades - souls are being lost, and those who played a role will be held accountable, maybe not in this life, but definitely in the next…
 
Ender said:
I believe that my continued silence would put many souls at risk, and would certainly damn my own.
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He’s made his point. Clearly. Multiple times. Are we to be subjected to a rehashing of it every few weeks?
 
Archbishop Viganò issued this letter in response to Cardinal Ouellet‘s statement. That seems proper to me. Usually that is the way I have seen things work. If one person states something, and another replies, usually the first person replies back.
 
I think the way things normally work between bishops and cardinals is behind closed doors.
 
Unfortunately it seems that it really HASN’T been working. Archbishop Viganò is not the only Bishop or Cardinal to publically speak out in recent years (or even in the past) when communication seems to stall or just simply not exist.
 
13pollitos said:
Unfortunately it seems that it really HASN’T been working.
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It hasn’t? We had Mass this weekend. Everything is fine with it. Statements like this always imply an outcome that defines what is “working”. It is like saying the MLB doesn’t work because the Sox beat the Astros.

McCarrick has been removed as a cardinal and sent to solitude. Just because Pope Francis beat AB Vigano from the perspective of acting first, doesn’t mean there is anything amiss. Pope Francis has called for a meeting early next year to examine what is working in the opinion of most of the bishops, and what is not.
gracepoole said:
Are we to be subjected to a rehashing of it every few weeks?
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He is working through a journalist. It is natural to have a worldly method of always trying to remain relevant. This is not the fault of AB Vigano, nor is he alone. So much of the problems from half a century ago occurred because other bishops took advice from psychologists and lawyers. Listening to journalists will not produce better results.

As long as we have a journalist taking lead on this, I expect we will continue to see the same re-hash, or at least until he gets his Pulitzer.
 
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gracepoole said:
I think the way things normally work between bishops and cardinals is behind closed doors.
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The breakdown of unity among the bishops is a scandal in itself. We tend to forget that bishops, and all priests, arose from the laity, and live in a world dominated by the media. Most bishops are working 60 - 80 hour weeks, with little time for spiritual retreats or bonding among fellow bishops, the same situation with diocesan priests.

Bishops are fearful of litigation. They are overwelmingly good men, but stressed. They have meetings twice a year among the national level, but those are usually crisis response.

In my diocese the laity are denouncing priests and the local bishop every chance they get, even before the current sex abuse crisis. If a parish drops from 2000 people on Sunday down to 50 people, and the bishop merges it with the parish down the road, laity put up signs denouncing the bishop.

We laity get the bishops we deserve, and sometimes better than we deserve.
 
gracepoole said:
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Ender:
I believe that my continued silence would put many souls at risk, and would certainly damn my own.
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He’s made his point. Clearly. Multiple times. Are we to be subjected to a rehashing of it every few weeks?
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I would hope that this stays at the forefront of our lives until some changes are implemented in a way where the clergy can finally begin rebuilding the trust that has been lost!
 
commenter said:
The breakdown of unity among the bishops is a scandal in itself.
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I agree. I wouldn’t want to invest in a company where the management couldn’t work well together and each manager or little group of managers had their own little power play happening. That is what I see in the Church, a lot of gamesmanship.
 
The clergy can’t rebuild trust when some old guy is releasing a fresh harping letter every couple weeks. Like I said before, I would have expected Vigano to put all the important super-critical stuff in one letter and release it and have done with it, not keep churning out a new installment of drama every few weeks.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
The clergy can’t rebuild trust when some old guy is releasing a fresh harping letter every couple weeks. Like I said before, I would have expected Vigano to put all the important super-critical stuff in one letter and release it and have done with it, not keep churning out a new installment of drama every few weeks.
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To be fair his most recent letter was merely in response to another who had criticized him for the accusations he originally made.

If he chose not respond after his initial letter, I believe he would lose credibility in the eyes of many. So far people have accused him of being divisive and disobedient. Ouellet, attempted to poke holes in his story and if Viganò had not defended himself, people would naturally assume that Viganò was mistaken in his recollection of the events which took place.

Viganò needs to stay on top of this. It was silence that started this whole thing to begin with. How many victims have come forward over the years only to have been dismissed after their initial complaint.

No, I think every accusation should some come to light and all the problems, perceived or otherwise, should continue to be mentioned. Or else 10 or 20 years from now we’ll be back here again, listening to someone else writing another letter talking about the abuses and we’ll get more responses telling us how this isn’t a massive, massive crisis, or sadly we’ll hear nothing in response.
 
pnewton said:
It hasn’t? We had Mass this weekend. Everything is fine with it. Statements like this always imply an outcome that defines what is “working”. It is like saying the MLB doesn’t work because the Sox beat the Astros.

McCarrick has been removed as a cardinal and sent to solitude. Just because Pope Francis beat AB Vigano from the perspective of acting first, doesn’t mean there is anything amiss. Pope Francis has called for a meeting early next year to examine what is working in the opinion of most of the bishops, and what is not.
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In the US the Supreme Court imposed same sex marriage on the country. Homosexuals claim that everything is fine after this imposition. One could say they are correct in that the country didn’t end and life has gone on normally for most people. But I certainly don’t think everything is fine in a country where two men can marry.

McCarrick should have been removed years ago. A system that allowed him to carry on is pretty rotten. Looking good on the outside doesn’t mean there isn’t rot on the inside.
 
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