ABP Vigano writes third letter

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Tis_Bearself said:
The clergy can’t rebuild trust when some old guy is releasing a fresh harping letter every couple weeks.
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I would have expected the real concern to be with whether his observations are true or not, not how many times he has to defend them. Homosexual behavior within the clergy has been a problem for some time, and it’s not as if it hasn’t been known to be one. At some point the bishops will have to step up and address it publicly. At the very least I’d be more interested in what they’re doing on that issue than hearing their opinions on immigration or some other political topic.
 
Homosexual clergy and seminaries that have a homosexual culture are completely within the competency of the bishops. These are things they are obliged to know about and stop. This is one of their primary responsibilities.

To fail so tremendously in this area is to not have your house in order. Practically speaking for faithful Catholics this eroded trust. For unfaithful Catholics and the world it encourages them to see the Church as hypocritical and gives them hope that doctrine will change.
 
I will grant that usually, when plaintiff’s counsel makes an argument and opposing counsel makes a counterargument, then plaintiff’s counsel is permitted a rebuttal. So if we view this as Vigano’s rebuttal, then I accept that. I just hope he isn’t going to keep releasing new letters after this.
 
We don’t know that what Vigano has written is accurate. Frankly, I doubt we’ll ever know the full truth. Repeating unproven accusations isn’t helpful. He’s made the charges. That seems to speak for itself without repetition of them.
 
If Western governments can take money from the Church they will. Not addressing abuse might be the justification they need. They could eventually go after the Church like they did the tobacco companies in the US.
 
Ostiarius said:
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gracepoole:
I doubt we’ll ever know the full truth.
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I do, given today’s environment.

Sadly I don’t think it’s going to be because the Church will face-up to its behavior.

I think it’s going to be because the Holy See s going to continue acting arrogantly (e.g. “I will not say a single world”) and the end result will be the Church being crucified by lay lawmakers in the US and eventually across the world.
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And what if that statement wasn’t arrogance on the part of the Holy Father? What if it was righteous indignation at lies being publicly shared about both him and his predecessors from a bishop?
 
I think his repetition of the problems plaguing the church is in response to what many clergy members are trying to dismiss as not being problems at all.

I believe many people are willing to admit the abuses have occurred. The next problem is the cover up and the failure to remove those clergy who are responsible. If there is a coverup as Viganò and others have claimed, than we need to look at who is involved and the reasons behind it.

It would seem that the focus is centered within in the large homosexual network which has taken hold of many offices and positions within the church. It seems that the level of corruption plaguing the church is far deeper than anybody can imagine.
 
Ostiarius said:
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gracepoole:
What if it was righteous indignation at lies being publicly shared about both him and his predecessors from a bishop?
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I don’t really see that as being possible. First, were that the case, Francis or his functionaries would have refuted the charges – after all, the control the documentation.
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You can assume that if they are innocent they must therefore refute the charges. But it’s only an assumption. Frankly, if what’s released could damage the reputation of a saint and a past pope who’s still living, perhaps he sees reason not to publicly refute charges – particularly if they’re spurious.
Ostiarius said:
Second, Pope Francis’ general behavior is not that of an innocent man. It’s one of a man of great power that feel he not deign to answer the questions of the great unwashed.
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Have you ever read Camus’ The Stranger? If not, you might give it a go.
Ostiarius said:
Third, there have been too many reputable sources from US ordinaries to EWTN demanding a thorough investigation without paying the deference they would if the felt the Pontiff was wholly without blame. If what you suggest is true, it would mean the end of EWTN and the NCR for helping to break the story.
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EWTN and NCR both have biases whether that’s something people here are comfortable admitting or not.
 
Ostiarius said:
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gracepoole:
You can assume that if they are innocent they must therefore refute the charges.
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If the hierarchy was innocent, Francis and his staff would have put this entire matter to bed in the first week.
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Again, pure assumption.
gracepoole said:
Have you ever read Camus’ The Stranger ? If not, you might give it a go.
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Ostiarius said:
Are you actually trying to suggest that Pope Francis is analogous to Meursault?
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I’m suggesting that judging guilt or innocence based on appearances is unwise at best.
gracepoole said:
EWTN and NCR both have biases whether that’s something people here are comfortable admitting or not.
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Ostiarius said:
EWTN and their NCR (and a number of others) would be out of business if they got this story wrong. It’s that simple, yet some do not want to recognize this.
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Hardly. These outlets published what was shared with them by a bishop. As Catholic outlets, they’re off the hook whether the contents are proven true or not.
 
I’m the OP, and I too have concerns about how the Vatican is responding. But I flagged post 58. We have no right to insult anyone in this way, including the Pope. Please keep the discussion civil
 
It is kind of hilarious to hear “coup”," functionaries," all that about the Germany’s money and now that you say about that severing the relationship with Channel.

It really sounds…odd.
Unrelated to the Church…
 
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His testimony is eloquent and moving–and direct. All the more so in contrast to the doubletalk and obfuscation of others (e.g. Cdl. Cupich) and the sneaky-heretical denial of Church and Biblical teachings on marriage and family (e.g. Fr. Martin). Abp. Vigano has nothing to gain; he says he wants to die with a clean conscience and–
I believe him.
Cdl. Cupich should go, Cdl. Ouelette should go, Bp. McElroy should go, Fr.
James Martin should go (he should be defrocked).
Just for starters.
 
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Nor should it just go away. The Church is profoundly in need of purification from the homosexualists and their unholy agenda. It is, indeed, a plague!
 
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I think this is a prelude for a persecution of the Catholic Church in which many innocent people will suffer. These type of accusations will be pretext for evil people to do what they have wanted to do all along but were unable to do because of legal restraints.
 
Monsignor Vigano is a respectful way to address him.
I do not call them " Vigano" nor " Ouellet"
Once more, it is odd that this needs to be pointed out as well.
 
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poche said:
I think this is a prelude for a persecution of the Catholic Church in which many innocent people will suffer. These type of accusations will be pretext for evil people to do what they have wanted to do all along but were unable to do because of legal restraints.
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It’s wrong to ignore the internal problem. It needs to be addressed, and I respectfully suggest Pope Francis is not the one who can do it.

However we should not allow the Church’s enemies to blow this out of proportion or control the response. The sex abuse situation in the Catholic Church is bad, but not worse than the sex abuse in other systems. The difference is the Church in the US mostly admitted and mostly reformed itself about 15 years ago. Others have not.

As in Ireland, the enemies of the Church here are using the very real Catholic sex abuse issue to defend legal abortion.
 
Nor your " coups" more Catholic.
I won t be feeding…your imagination any longer.
 
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