Abusing muhammad?

[R_not]

Oh, and I should add - our court system.

Start DEMANDING that they obey the laws instead of trying to make laws from the bench and that also means giving jihadists military trials, throwing out frivolous lawsuits that the muslims bring against free speech, and fining the lawyers if they continue that junk.

 

[Numinous]

@ R_Not

Looks like your plan is a Crusade of sorts. The crusaders themselves never called it “a crusade” but rather “to our Lord” and “way of the Sepulchre” and “way of the Cross.”

 

[R_not]

I know you all don’t agree with me and I’m not about to try to convince you of anything.

But before you run away with yourselves, I will reiterate once again, that Muhammad himself instructed his companions that it was better not to hit their wives. The permission to do it was, according to scholars later, only lightly with something akin to a toothbrush.

There are so many restrictions on this so-called “beating” (i.e., that the man not do it out of anger, only do it after attempting to correct his wife in another way first, that it be with a toothbrush, that he not leave a mark, that he not do it in public) that frankly you can’t find it at all comparable to domestic abuse–something which happens in every religion and culture.

Islam actually explains how men are to treat their wives if they are in error–and it is to be kindly without causing harm.

I’m personally not aware of any religion so explicit, and consider that to be only one aspect in which Islam excels other ways of life.

Wife-beating was up until recently generally accepted in Christian countries, for instance–why?

In Islam, the limits are clear, and far from “condoning” or “encouraging” it, Islam actually discourages it (through Prophetic example) and limits it.

sister amy you are in lala land most of the time. It does happen and sharia laws do nothing to stop it. And it is great if your imam/cleric does not condone it, but you continue to sit in lala land and do nothing about the plight of those who are abused. Keep denying it and therefore it doesn’t exist. Is that how you think?

I cut/pasted most of the article because I know you won’t go to any site that gives the truth of islam’s laws.

Wife-beating is epidemic in Turkey. It’s widespread in South Africa. More than a third of the women in Brazil and Thailand report physical partner violence.

Although it is condemned by helping organizations around the world, wife beating is common in many places. What’s worse is when health workers facilitate or condone it as recently reported in a study done in Turkey.

In Turkey which has wife-beating virtually institutionalized, a high percentage of health workers don’t respond or work with the victims of domestic violence in sympathetic ways. That’s because the culture accepts wife- beating. On a questionnaire 69.0% of the female and 84.7% of the male health workers stated that the agreed to or partially agreed to at least one reason to excuse physical violence.

The accepted grounds for beating one’s wife in Turkey includes criticizing the man, lying to him or refusing to care for the children. Deceiving the husband is the most serious offense with over half of female doctors agreeing that the man should be able to punish the wife physically if the wife deceived him. These are accepted grounds also for honor killings.

Because of the cultural rigidity on the matter of approving wife-beating most health care workers in Turkey don’t know the legal issues nor is there any real training in the country to help medical personnel identify and report signs of physical abuse.

Although less than 20% of females report physical abuse by their husbands in Japan, a diplomat, wanting to excuse the beating of his wife, told Canadian officials that it was accepted in Japan. Japan officials were so offended they had the wife abuser, consul general, Shuji Simokoji, sent home. Health workers in Japan do have training in recognizing signs of domestic abuse as do workers in most European countries including Great Britain, Germany, France, the Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland and others.

 

[jakasaki]

=Sister Amy;4794654]I know you all don’t agree with me and I’m not about to try to convince you of anything.

The permission to do it was, according to scholars later, only lightly with something akin to a toothbrush.

Good evening Sister Amy -

If my husband ever tried to hit me “lightly” with a “toothbrush”, I would kick is “butt” out on the road and throw his clothes out the window… and call the cops…!!!

No man should ever ever touch/hit his wife, GF, fiance’ or woman. Period.

I find it insulting that islam actually dictates to men how should women be “disciplined”… and yet there are NO rules in islam to discipline their husbands for abuse… Rubbish!

Yes, please do go into the American men beat their wives routine. They are just as scum…

God Bless

 

[R_not]

@ R_Not

Looks like your plan is a Crusade of sorts. The crusaders themselves never called it “a crusade” but rather “to our Lord” and “way of the Sepulchre” and “way of the Cross.”

I guess what I am saying is that we can get off our duffs and do something in a peaceful way BEFORE the violence begins. the problem is that political correctness and left wing idiots are sometimes worse than muslims.

I wrote my Senators, and governor, (even though mine are a bunch of left wing idiots) and asked why are some of these compounds allowed to exist in California?!?!??!?! I want answers.

homegrown terrorism

 

[chrisse]

I know you all don’t agree with me and I’m not about to try to convince you of anything.

But before you run away with yourselves, I will reiterate once again, that Muhammad himself instructed his companions that it was better not to hit their wives. The permission to do it was, according to scholars later, only lightly with something akin to a toothbrush.

There are so many restrictions on this so-called “beating” (i.e., that the man not do it out of anger, only do it after attempting to correct his wife in another way first, that it be with a toothbrush, that he not leave a mark, that he not do it in public) that frankly you can’t find it at all comparable to domestic abuse–something which happens in every religion and culture.

Islam actually explains how men are to treat their wives if they are in error–and it is to be kindly without causing harm.

I’m personally not aware of any religion so explicit, and consider that to be only one aspect in which Islam excels other ways of life.

Wife-beating was up until recently generally accepted in Christian countries, for instance–why?

In Islam, the limits are clear, and far from “condoning” or “encouraging” it, Islam actually discourages it (through Prophetic example) and limits it.

Sister Amy, it appears you are in the wrong thread.

:knight1:

 

[ahollars]

Sister Amy, Muslim_Woman, and others:

You completely dodged my post, and I would like a response. The truth is that you cannot reply. History has proven Mohammad to be wrong, thus he is not infallible. Here is my post again. Everyone else, note how they have no answer for this one.

There is one glaring error in the Koran that alone disproves the entire of Islam’s claim of supremacy over Christianity. The stubborn refusal of Muslim’s to admit that Jesus was, in fact, crucified. Forget about the resurrection for a second, and just focus on the fact that Islam claims that our knowledge of the Passion is a myth. That Jesus was not put on trial by Caiaphas, handed over to Pontius Pilate, nailed to a cross with two criminals, witnessed by hundreds of people, including His own Mother, and finally buried in a cave guarded by Roman soldiers, all of which was recorded by the Roman historian Josephus, before any gospels were written. Muslims expect us to believe that Muhammad’s revelations 600 years after these events are more accurate than the eyewitness account by John himself written in his own gospel. **(Yes, remember John was the one disciple who was there.) **This is the reason I believe the Koran to be a farce, no more credible than the book of Mormon.

Paarsurrey, and others who think they don’t have to chose a side, no servant can serve two masters. Both Jesus and Mohammad preached this to their followers. One is right, the other is wrong, and there is only one Truth.

 

[chrisse]

Sister Amy, Muslim_Woman, and others:

You completely dodged my post, and I would like a response. The truth is that you cannot reply. History has proven Mohammad to be wrong, thus he is not infallible. Here is my post again. Everyone else, note how they have no answer for this one.

There is one glaring error in the Koran that alone disproves the entire of Islam’s claim of supremacy over Christianity. The stubborn refusal of Muslim’s to admit that Jesus was, in fact, crucified. Forget about the resurrection for a second, and just focus on the fact that Islam claims that our knowledge of the Passion is a myth. That Jesus was not put on trial by Caiaphas, handed over to Pontius Pilate, nailed to a cross with two criminals, witnessed by hundreds of people, including His own Mother, and finally buried in a cave guarded by Roman soldiers, all of which was recorded by the Roman historian Josephus, before any gospels were written. Muslims expect us to believe that Muhammad’s revelations 600 years after these events are more accurate than the eyewitness account by John himself written in his own gospel. **(Yes, remember John was the one disciple who was there.) **This is the reason I believe the Koran to be a farce, no more credible than the book of Mormon.

Paarsurrey, and others who think they don’t have to chose a side, no servant can serve two masters. Both Jesus and Mohammad preached this to their followers. One is right, the other is wrong, and there is only one Truth.

They never answer when the truth does not suit their cause, ahollers.

They’ll dodge, distract, “we love Jesus and Mary”, cry wolf at how they are abused and offended, they do everything else BUT face the truth of the ideology of islam that they adhere to.

 

[sedonaman]

Islam actually explains how men are to treat their wives if they are in error–and it is to be kindly without causing harm.

You didn’t answer my question about how it is the place of one human being to judge another guilty of sin.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy, Muslim_Woman, and others:

You completely dodged my post, and I would like a response. The truth is that you cannot reply. History has proven Mohammad to be wrong, thus he is not infallible. Here is my post again. Everyone else, note how they have no answer for this one.

I didn’t even read your post, so “dodged” would not be an accurate verb. Rather I was completely oblivious to it–but given your attitude, it doesn’t seem worthwhile to investigate further.

There is one glaring error in the Koran that alone disproves the entire of Islam’s claim of supremacy over Christianity. The stubborn refusal of Muslim’s to admit that Jesus was, in fact, crucified.

Refusal to admit? Not quite. Declaration of exactly the opposite. They did not crucify him, nor did they kill him–that’s what the Qur’an says. That being the case, what Muslims say or don’t say is pretty much irrelevant, since God himself has told you what you need to know.

Forget about the resurrection for a second, and just focus on the fact that Islam claims that our knowledge of the Passion is a myth.

I can forget about the resurrection for the rest of my life, honestly. It can’t have happened if he never died.

That Jesus was not put on trial by Caiaphas, handed over to Pontius Pilate, nailed to a cross with two criminals, witnessed by hundreds of people, including His own Mother, and finally buried in a cave guarded by Roman soldiers, all of which was recorded by the Roman historian Josephus, before any gospels were written.

So you consider Josephus to be more authoritative than God?

Muslims expect us to believe that Muhammad’s revelations 600 years after these events are more accurate than the eyewitness account by John himself written in his own gospel. **(Yes, remember John was the one disciple who was there.) **This is the reason I believe the Koran to be a farce, no more credible than the book of Mormon.

Too bad for you, really. I mean, if you believe that John actually witnessed a crucifixion that didn’t happen, yet you refuse to believe the Qur’an–it doesn’t say much for you, I have to admit. But if you refuse to open your mind and your heart to the truth, there’s nothing else for me to say.

Paarsurrey, and others who think they don’t have to chose a side, no servant can serve two masters. Both Jesus and Mohammad preached this to their followers. One is right, the other is wrong, and there is only one Truth.

Actually both Muhammad and Jesus are right, since they both preached the same thing–they both taught their followers to worship God, alone. And that is the teaching I follow.

 

[Sister_Amy]

You didn’t answer my question about how it is the place of one human being to judge another guilty of sin.

I’m afraid I don’t even understand your question.

Do you think that God does not allow for judges?

 

[Sister_Amy]

They never answer when the truth does not suit their cause, ahollers.

They’ll dodge, distract, “we love Jesus and Mary”, cry wolf at how they are abused and offended, they do everything else BUT face the truth of the ideology of islam that they adhere to.

It would be nice for you to face the truth of Islam. I do–quite often, actually. You’re still facing a lie, a ruse, that someone’s led you to believe is Islam. I guess I should pity you.

 

[chrisse]

It would be nice for you to face the truth of Islam. I do–quite often, actually. You’re still facing a lie, a ruse, that someone’s led you to believe is Islam. I guess I should pity you.

Save your hypocritical pity and pray and show concern for those who are living in persecution under Islam RIGHT NOW all over the planet, madam.

I have read and seen the truth of Islam; well researched and respected scholarship regarding the real history of Islam over 1400 years, and I have my own copy of The Reliance of the Traveller, together with access to authentic islamic sites for the qur’an and hadiths.

Of course if you do not recognise Saudi Arabia, Al Aska et el as authentic, then it is you who CAN and WILL not accept the truth about your vile ideology called islam.

But those caught up in a cult never do, and can’t, until they are de-indoctrinated.

:knight1:
21st Century Crusader : armed with knowledge, firing with words.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Save your hypocritical pity and pray and show concern for those who are living in persecution under Islam RIGHT NOW all over the planet, madam.

Madam? Why don’t you show concern for the Muslims who are living in persecution? In Kashmir, Palestine, or Chechnya? I didn’t say I pitied you, I merely said that perhaps I should.

I have read and seen the truth of Islam; well researched and respected scholarship regarding the real history of Islam over 1400 years, and I have my own copy of The Reliance of the Traveller, together with access to authentic islamic sites for the qur’an and hadiths.

Good for you. Is that supposed to impress me? Anyone with an internet connection has “access to authentic islamic sites for the qur’an and hadiths.” I mean, seriously. Being in a library doesn’t make a person well-read.

Of course if you do not recognise Saudi Arabia, Al Aska et el as authentic, then it is you who CAN and WILL not accept the truth about your vile ideology called islam.

Saudi Arabia is a country–it is supposed to be an example of an authentic what? Monarchy? And I don’t even know what “Al Aska” is. Never heard of it… lol. I’m guessing you just misspelled something but it doesn’t help I can’t figure out what you’re talking about… totally incoherent. Too bad. I love Islam. What is vile is the amount of vicious attacks on Islam–fabrications against it and slanders against its prophet.

But those caught up in a cult never do, and can’t, until they are de-indoctrinated.

Perhaps you are the one in need of de-indoctrination… rofl.

21st Century Crusader : armed with knowledge, firing with words.

Oh if only you were armed with knowledge. But you’re not. You’re only armed with lies. Seek the truth.

 

[R_not]

I’m afraid I don’t even understand your question.

Do you think that God does not allow for judges?

Not for judging our sins.

And especially in islam where sin was redefined from the commandments that God gave to us. They had to be redefined since mohammed broke so many of the commandments.

In fact, muslims quite often set themselves up as judges of our sins - even on these threads.

I won’t even judge mohammed - and I have written that quite often. In the end, it is God who judges our sins - not the likes of some muslim who have placed the aura of goodness on the atrocities they commit.

 

[ahollars]

So you consider Josephus to be more authoritative than God?

Too bad for you, really. I mean, if you believe that John actually witnessed a crucifixion that didn’t happen, yet you refuse to believe the Qur’an–it doesn’t say much for you, I have to admit. But if you refuse to open your mind and your heart to the truth, there’s nothing else for me to say.

I repeat. You completely missed the point.

That is the problem. The bible is a collection of writings spread by thousands of years, but they all have one thing in common.** All are testimonies of eyewitnesses.** For 600 years, hundreds of men, both saints and sinners, wrote about, chronicled, and commented on the trial of Jesus of Nazareth. You would have us believe that everyone was lying. Everyone was telling a fable. They didn’t really see what they thought they saw. You are ignoring historical fact. As you so adequately put, you could forget about the resurrection forever. That is where the lying began. People throughout history have claimed that he didn’t rise from the dead. But, no one… NO ONE… ever claimed that he wasn’t put to death. It wasn’t until Mohammad wrote the Koran that Jesus’ death was questioned. Your point about Josephus was misplaced. He was not commenting on theology and never claimed to have. He was a Roman historian whose writings exist to this day on many topics, including the trial and execution of Jesus. If Mohammad had commented on Jesus the way he did on the other prophets, this problem would never exist. His recognition of those before him was benevolent, until he unknowingly decided to rewrite history. All Mohammad had to do was say that the resurrection was actually just an apparition, as many Christian critics have. Instead, people, like you, turn their eyes when confronted with facts they cannot dispute. Mohammad said it, therefore it’s true. Sorry, but at least John has a legitimate claim since he was actually there at the time.

Note one thing: I did not call Mohammad a liar. He was simply mistaken, and that’s being generous. But you just called John and all the other gospel writers, early church fathers, and historians… lairs. You cannot say that it didn’t happen without calling everything recorded and saved to this day a lie.

 

[R_not]

Madam? Why don’t you show concern for the Muslims who are living in persecution? In Kashmir, Palestine, or Chechnya? I didn’t say I pitied you, I merely said that perhaps I should.

Good for you. Is that supposed to impress me? Anyone with an internet connection has “access to authentic islamic sites for the qur’an and hadiths.” I mean, seriously. Being in a library doesn’t make a person well-read.

Saudi Arabia is a country–it is supposed to be an example of an authentic what? Monarchy? And I don’t even know what “Al Aska” is. Never heard of it… lol. I’m guessing you just misspelled something but it doesn’t help I can’t figure out what you’re talking about… totally incoherent. Too bad. I love Islam. What is vile is the amount of vicious attacks on Islam–fabrications against it and slanders against its prophet.

Perhaps you are the one in need of de-indoctrination… rofl.

Oh if only you were armed with knowledge. But you’re not. You’re only armed with lies. Seek the truth.

Supporting Hamas isn’t showing any concern over muslims. We have given them more money than we even know and they still don’t do anything with it except buy more weapons. They have killed more muslims than anyone else. And by ignoring (you are very good at ignoring) the atrocities by muslims - hamas AND the palestinians - doesn’t make them the victims - no matter how many muslims get out on the streets and call everyone else names.

You discount her background only because she hasn’t fallen for islam and disagrees with you. It also seems that college educated young adults doesn’t mean they are too bright about islamic history or its koran and hadiths. A muslim who doesn’t know the mosque in Jerusalem? hhhmmm, our young adults come out brainwashed and too lazy to even look up something on that internet they just bashed someone else for. All you had to do is switch the ‘s’ and ‘k’.

As for bashing mohammed - no one is bashing him, just bringing out his history via your own texts. You are just upset over that. Too bad you didn’t do some reading before you reverted back to sin, oh er I mean reverted back to islam.

 

[chrisse]

Madam? Why don’t you show concern for the Muslims who are living in persecution? In Kashmir, Palestine, or Chechnya? I didn’t say I pitied you, I merely said that perhaps I should.

Madam, I do not show concern for persecution that is self-inflicted, while at the same time those same people inflict persecution on innocents. I have values based on natural law and natural justice evolved from the teachings of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, madam, you have values based on pre-historic, survival of the fittest savagery where natural law and natural justice play no part.

Good for you. Is that supposed to impress me? Anyone with an internet connection has “access to authentic islamic sites for the qur’an and hadiths.” I mean, seriously. Being in a library doesn’t make a person well-read.

Madam, I have no need to try and impress you, and nothing could have been further from my mind. However, you answer shows how seething you are that the actual texts of your ideology are now so freely available, together with so many arabic speaking islamic experts who are exposing those texts that have not been translated.

Saudi Arabia is a country–it is supposed to be an example of an authentic what? Monarchy? And I don’t even know what “Al Aska” is. Never heard of it… lol. I’m guessing you just misspelled something but it doesn’t help I can’t figure out what you’re talking about… totally incoherent. Too bad. I love Islam. What is vile is the amount of vicious attacks on Islam–fabrications against it and slanders against its prophet.

Perhaps you are the one in need of de-indoctrination… rofl

Oh if only you were armed with knowledge. But you’re not. You’re only armed with lies. Seek the truth.

Madam, you are showing how truly desperate you are, attacking the person, not addressing the argument. You lost the debate, madam, right there.

:knight1:
The 21st Century Crusade : arm yourself with knowledge, fire with words

 

[Reuben_J]

mohammad did not engage in any important occupation. At times he would attend sheep, a profession mostly reserved for girls and deemed unmanly by the Arabs. The pay was meager and he depended on his impoverished uncle for his sustenance.

Finally, at the age of 25, Abu Talib secured for mohammed a job, to work as a trustee for a wealthy merchant woman, a relative, named Khadijah. Khadijah was a comely forty-year-old successful merchant and a widow. mohammed made one trip to Syria in her service, selling her merchandise and buying what she had ordered. Upon his return, Khadijah fell in love with the young mohammed and, through a maid, proposed marriage to him.

mohammed was a needy man, both financially and emotionally. For him the marriage with Khadijah was a blessing. In her, he could find the mother he had craved as a child, as well as the financial security that allowed him to never work again.

Khadijah was more than willing to take care of all her young husband’s needs. She found her happiness in giving, caring, and in self-sacrifice.

mohammed was not fond of work. He preferred to withdraw from the world and retreat into his own thoughts.
source: Understanding muhammad, A Psychobiography, pp14-15

I have some experience in how a person’s past life, family background and environment affects his personality in an adult stage. This knowledge is rather useful when one tries to assist people from troubled marriage and family. I can say Mohammad’s experience as a child and his youth did influence his thought and action in his adulthood. Some of the known things he did as adult were consistent with a person who had such childhood and youth. These findings may not be nice to disclose here but since much have been said, I can only say those are not surprising.

 

[Reuben_J]

R_not:

was just thinking about that last post and if you would read the Bible you might see for yourself what it said instead of reading the made up stories that mohammed put in the koran, or listening to clerics who don’t have a clue as to what is in the Bible either.

Instead - we get the same old accusations while you haven’t even cracked open a Bible to read it.

You will see the reasons why God did what He did and that there was no order for us to carry on killing sprees in His name, unlike the koran and mohammed’s commands to do so.

And there is no twisting of evil into goodness. What is good is good and what is bad is bad. And the salvation of your soul is not weighted down by predestination. In islam all this evil that is done with the twist that it is good does not give one hint that it overrides predestination. It is only promises from a man, mohammed, who promised whatever his followers wanted to hear in order to get them to do his bidding. And all he had to add on to his wishes was to say that ‘allah said’.

You don’t have to go and prance around a black rock hoping an inatimate object has some sort of consciousness that you know isn’t real hoping a rock will speak for you. A rock. A cold thing that was used in mohammed’s pagan religion and since mohammed was familiar with it - he brought it into his new ‘religion’ with him.

And while you pass judgement on others that you think worship statues and objects - here muslims worship a rock that mohammed said will ‘speak’ for them on Judgement Day and has a conscious. A little hypocritical, don’t you think?

Maybe this need to be pointed out to Muslims here who like to use the Bible to justify Mohammad’s action

.