Account: bishop says "You can't be an authentic Catholic and pro-abortion." --As pro-abortion "Catholic" in U.S. takes the public eye

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Peeps said:
Trump’s diarrhea of the mouth is not as important as his actions that make it possible for more women to choose to allow their child to be born.
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“More possible”? Really? I’ll tell you what would truly make it more possible for women to choose to allow their child to be born: Universal state-paid prenatal care and delivery services for all, regardless of ability to pay or complications in the delivery. But as for the actions Trump has taken, at best you can say he has made it harder to choose to have an abortion. But he certainly has not made it easier to choose not to have an abortion, unless you consider forcing the choice on them as “making it easier” to make that choice.
 
farronwolf said:
I don’t need some organization to tell me what they think, when I have heard Trump say things that are not pro life.

Others may need to, but that is their call.
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In other words, you don’t want to hear from the local people in your own part of the world who know things that you probably don’t even dream of. You don’t care to hear the opinions of those on the front lines–you would rather listen to the media “selective” reporting.
 
Peeps said:
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farronwolf:
I don’t need some organization to tell me what they think, when I have heard Trump say things that are not pro life.

Others may need to, but that is their call.
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Trump’s diarrhea of the mouth is not as important as his actions that make it possible for more women to choose to allow their child to be born.

Honestly, what would you rather have? Someone who is very polite and cultured, but is willing to let you die or suffer, or someone who is crass and a braggart who does what he/she can to help you live and enjoy your life?

Actions speak louder than words or postures or hair/skin color (orange).
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Yep, actions speak volumes, along with words. I am not going to derail this thread, but his actions towards others, indicate he doesn’t respect people much at all, and his words have indicated that he has a long list of exceptions where abortion is permissible.

Him being a braggart and compulsive liar just make him look like a fool in my eyes.
 
Since I can’t see how a Catholic could vote for Biden, we don’t really have a choice this year.
 
What I’m saying, is if you had to choose Trump or Biden, the party of death isn’t really an option.

I can’t see how a practicing Catholic could justify voting for that man.
 
Peeps said:
Actions speak louder than words or postures or hair/skin color (orange).
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Not always true. Discernment is needed. For example those guys that loiter in parks offering kids lollies and saying I’ve got a whole bag full back in my car. You won’t regret coming along with me. You have to teach kids to be sensitive to their gut feeling so if it feels like a ‘carrot’ just to get you into his car, don’t buy it!
 
I dont vote for the party I vote for the person. Way too many people vote based on party politics vs looking at the person and their character.

If one votes for the party it really requires zero thought or conscious decision to walk in and check the straight party ticket. Not my idea of participating fully in our election process.
 
I really don’t like Trump and I really don’t like abortion. I’m not Catholic, so my opinion means little but here it is.

Nothing is going to be done by either party at the national level to change abortion law. Any modifications to the law will be made at the state level. I am also anti nuclear weapons but my vote will not change either parties legislation. Roe v Wade is settled law whether I like it or not and whomever is in the White House isn’t going to change that fact. For me, I’ve moved beyond voting on the abortion issue long ago. I am much more concerned about which party will reduce the need and desire for abortion. I think neither party is close to perfect but I see more opportunity for reducing abortion numbers with the Democrats than the Republicans.
 
dscath said:
Of course you can’t…but neither can you be an authentic Catholic if you are only pro-birth and not pro-life…some Catholics don’t know the difference.
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And old, worn, and baseless ‘argument.’ There are millions of Catholics who are taking care of pregnant mothers by way of counseling, taking them into their homes, or providing money, clothes, diapers, formula, etc.

I have done plenty of helping pregnant girls and mothers in distress. I had a 16 year old in my home when her parents had kicked her out (probably because her boyfriend was in a gang more than because she was pregnant). I’ve done counseling, I’ve donated clothes, diapers, food, and money. I’ve babysat for single mothers–including for weeks on end, including of four children in addition to my own large family. I could go on.

I know plenty of other pro-lifers and Catholics who have done as much or more, including adopting and in some cases adopting very large families who had lost both parents, and dealing with all the trauma of that.

Yet I see this same old tired charge, completely unsubstantiated, that pro-lifers (or in this case Catholics) or ‘pro-birth’ but not really pro-life.

The people who make this charge at this point only look petty, slanderous, and ignorant.

As others have said, it’s just a way to cover up their guilt at refusing to stand for life, themselves. For shame.

I’ll tell you what–instead of being online throwing stones, go to the store and buy ten cans of baby formula and take it to a pregnancy center or go online and find a single mother who needs a place to stay and take her in.
 
I am voting for Biden. He was not my first choice. But considering what is happening
to our country, Biden is the only choice.
 
Pattylt said:
Roe v Wade is settled law
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No it ain’t…just like slavery was not settled law.

President Trump (MItch McConnell more specifically) has named 150 + judges. I believe he has flipped the once liberal 9th circuit. The Russian hoax, the Kavanaugh persecution…all because of President Trump’s Pro Life stance. You are not Catholic so you might not understand that it is spiritual warfare that is being undertaken. Our bishops have stated that ending abortion is a Catholic’s primary voting concern but high on the list is religious liberty and for sure, if the liberal left gains power Catholics and even protestants that follow Jesus’ Pro Life teachings will be under attack.
 
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Pattylt said:
I think neither party is close to perfect but I see more opportunity for reducing abortion numbers with the Democrats than the Republicans.
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The Democrats are the Party of Dependency. Their policies give people “fish,” but don’t “teach them to fish.”
 
StudentMI said:
Trump would adopt whatever abortion position got him more votes.
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He did not win by a landslide by any means.

In this country, choosing an anti-abortion stance is a sure-fire way to constant harrassment from the powerful Democrats and the Democratic Party, the media, the entertainment industry, the teachers’ unions, various minority rights groups (not all of these by any means), and even many church denominations and religious organizations. .

It’s a way to make yourself a target.

Donald Trump could have chosen the easy way, as did Pres. Bush–kinda sorta pro-life but also kinda sorta freedom to choose an abortion–which is the logical Republican Party policy (“small government, lots of personal freedoms”), although they have chosen to write a pro-life statement into the Republican Party Platform. I suspect that this pro-life Statement to the G.O.P. Party Platform will go away really soon, probably after this election cycle, as it’s obvious that Christian Right organizations like Moral Majority have fallen apart and are scorned by “thinking” Christians, and many Christians (including Catholic Christians and even many Evangelical Protestant Christians) are often on the fence about the abortion issue, and often believe the choice should be up to the individual, not the government.

I think it’s likely that when Pres. Trump is no longer in power (In all likelihood, there will be a change in the Party in Power in the White House and Congress, but hopefully not this election cycle), an all-out war will be waged against any pro-life policies, and steps will be taken to ensure that abortion will be the only option supported by the federal government.

The States’ rights will be eliminated concerning this issue. It won’t matter what the Supreme Court justices stands are. When we see the vitriol and hatred that the Democrats in power have unleashed on Pres. Trump, Vice-Pres. Pence, and any other pro-life, pro-Christian Republican (including many regular folks who are activists in their towns and cities), it seems likely to me that the Supreme Court justices will be in danger of their very lives. De-lifing the unborn leads to de-lifing of anyone who is “in the way.”

I honestly believe that the Democratic Party will propose, ram through, and PASS an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guaranteeing the right to terminate a pregnancy at all stages to ALL women and any others who are capable of carrying a child (trans, etc.). I think pro-life people may be in danger of arrest and imprisonment by the time the Democratic Party has its evil way, and churches who teach that abortion is wrong will be in grave danger of being closed as “hate centers” and pastors/teachers who teach that abortion is wrong will be arrested and imprisoned as “hate mongers.” I’m guessing that speaking out or attempting to prevent an abortion will be classed as a felony.

Someday, those of you alive in 20 years will remember Peeps’ prediction.
 
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farronwolf said:
So, based on that, I don’t look at abortion as a single issue when viewing a political candidate. I know that many do, and that some Catholics take what the USCCB says about abortion to mean that you can never vote for anyone who is pro choice, which they do not actually say. Truth be told, there are very, very few politicians who are 100% pro life based on the Church’s teachings.

The only hope in making progress on the issue is to do whatever part we can to try to limit the number of abortions that take place.
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There is some merit to that. However, again, the Dems are just completely off the table for me because not only are they ‘not going to overturn Roe’ they are actively moving the cultural and legal ball for abortion forward; and proud to say they are doing it. They’ve all but killed the pro life democrats as a real faction in the party that has any power.

This isn’t a plea to vote Republican. As I’ve said I have my issues with them, and I think that they do have limited power to change things (and sometimes only pay ‘changing things’ lip service). There is merit in getting good SC picks, but that’s a long play and you never know what you might get.

But I do dispute the idea that because of this abortion is ‘just one of many’ ideas. Let’s not have it be abortion. Let’s have it be segregation. You have party A) which is decent to white poor people, has a bang up tax plan, and does a nice job with domestic stability. They also are 100% pro segregation and not only want to take the laws on the books and keep them, but want to distigmatize the idea that blacks are inferior and should have their ‘own’ stuff. Not just white and black drinking fountains but a white drinking fountain and a black garden hose around the back.

The other party isn’t as good as the other in domestic stability or tax plan, but they think that maybe segregation isn’t a good idea. Some pay alot of lip service to getting rid of it, but don’t make much headway, but they aren’t making it worse and do in some cases make it less horrific.

Few people would say ‘Well, Segregation is on the books, we won’t overturn it, so it doesn’t really matter which way we vote…’

The only rational choice in that situation is to either stand up and take control of the least worst party and make it honestly better, or create a new party.

I also think that under no circumstances would it be okay to vote for the party that moves segregation forward, despite the fact that they have good domestic policy and a bang up tax plan. Because the segregation thing is a fatal flaw in it all. You can say ‘Well, I’m voting for domestic policy, not for segregation’. But the fact is that in voting for them you are voting indirectly for moving the segregation ball forward and sewing great evil in our society.

I feel your frustration. I just can’t live with the diminution of this anymore. Maybe I’m a rube. Maybe I’m a complete schmuck. I’ve heard it all. But I’m not going to vote for someone that can move abortion forward anymore, or any other societal ill. I’ll vote, but it’ll be for the American Solidarity party whenever I can.
 
Peeps said:
The Democrats are the Party of Dependency. Their policies give people “fish,” but don’t “teach them to fish.”
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I realize that’s your view. Sometimes, before we can teach them to fish, we have to make sure they have a fish first. I’m not in favor of just giving people stuff…like $1200 whether they needed it or not…but to stabilize someone’s life and then push them into training, work or entering back into society…I’m very much in favor of that. Some people have been so devastated by factors in their life that they need stabilization before demanding they pull their bootstraps up.
 
yankeesouth said:
No it ain’t…just like slavery was not settled law.
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It’s a comment the SC has made itself. Overturning the law would just render it back to the states anyway. What is it, about two thirds of states allow for abortion without restrictions and have no support for changing it. Women would just travel or turn to medication to continue to abort. I want to address their cause, not their solution.
 
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