ACLU wants apology after student leads graduation crowd in reciting Lord's Prayer

[ChristIsTheWay]

I look at it the other way. It gets old to read about students, teachers, schools, districts, etc., etc., etc., trying to sneak in a prayer during graduations.

How strange that pray is something thought of as being sneaked in. Kind of like a kid sneaking some popcorn into the movie theater or something. I do find that sad.

karow:

Why do they do this? Because it garners them attention? Because if they think if enough people do it, it will eventually be Okay? Because they’re hoping to evangelize? Because they want to be passive-aggressive about their faith?

I prefer not to judge their intent for choosing to pray. This is part of the problem I have with all this. Pray is suddenly being accused of being something other than communicating with God.

karow:

Because lawyers on both sides of this issue make a lot of money, therefore they have a vested interest in finding a new case every June? The cynical side of me suspects the latter.

That doesn’t mean these young people are doing anything wrong. Lawyers are always looking for cases. It is how they make a living.

karow:

If folks want to pray at commencements, formal dances, athletic events, and awards dinners, attend a religious school. Or join a home school co-op. My grandparents sent me and my brother to a private religious school, and no one got all twisted up when we prayed six times a day, seven if you count lunchtime.

This isn’t, strictly, about pray. It is about denying a private citizen their right to freedom of speech in a public arena. My rights and your rights don’t end because someone might not like the content of our speech or consider it appropriate.

karow:

But don’t attend or send your kid to a public institution and expect sanctioned prayer. Just don’t. All your doing is making the lawyers rich.

This wasn’t sanctioned pray. No public institution or official planned, directed, or otherwise possessed any connection with this pray. This was a private citizen exercising their constitutional right to freedom of speech.

 

[pinay]

If a student at a high school graduation wants to pray to Odin during the moment of silence, oh well. It is a private citizen’s right to freedom of speech (and religion) and that does not magically dissolve even if they are speaking, as a private citizen, at a public place.

Unfortunately, the private citizen didn’t pray silently and he was given specific instructions that in that particular public school, prayer needs to be offered in silence.

Freedom of speech is only free until it interferes with the law… for example, you cannot yell “Fire” at a theater regardless of how free your speech is. You cannot hold a sign that says “Your dead son is now in hell!” right next to the coffin of a dead soldier either. There’s no law to protect you from getting expelled if you yell out “God is an evil witch!” in a Catholic classroom, regardless of your freedom of speech rights. And, you’re going to end up in jail if you talk about assasinating the President.

Food for thought.

 

[irishpatrick]

Don’t know. But it’s prayer in a public secular school, so that can’t be allowed because not everyone is Christian

If the school had given approavl and sanctioning of the prayer, then in that case your point would be more accurate. However, the prayer was said as free speech choice by the student and it was not scheduled, approved or sanctioned by the school. In fact, it seems the student went against school wishes.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Don’t the abortion lovers tell you not to have one if you don’t want one?

Don’t pray the prayer if you don’t want to.

 

[Gift_from_God]

If the school had given approavl and sanctioning of the prayer, then in that case your point would be more accurate. However, the prayer was said as free speech choice by the student and it was not scheduled, approved or sanctioned by the school. In fact, it seems the student went against school wishes.

The student can’t be saying it. It doesn’t matter if a majority of the students participated because the minority matters as well

If you want to pray, pray on your own time

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

People, read up on Lee v. Weisman and Engel v. Vitale

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_v._Weisman
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale

Just quickly looked over them but they do not appear, at first glance, to directly address this case. Regardless, a pro-choicer could suggest that pro-lifers read up on Roe v. Wade. Sometimes Supreme Court rulings are bad.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

The student can’t be saying it. It doesn’t matter if a majority of the students participated because the minority matters as well

If you want to pray, pray on your own time

To be honest, I’ll pray when I feel compelled.

 

[Gift_from_God]

Don’t the abortion lovers tell you not to have one if you don’t want one?

This is not relate to abortion in any way

Don’t pray the prayer if you don’t want to.

The minority must be protected. We can’t be having student-lead prayer in schools

 

[Gift_from_God]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_v._Weisman
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale

Just quickly looked over them but they do not appear, at first glance, to directly address this case. Regardless, a pro-choicer could suggest that pro-lifers read up on Roe v. Wade. Sometimes Supreme Court rulings are bad.

Don’t bring abortion into this

 

[Darryl1958]

I don’t know… I do have to say if he started leading everyone in prayer and THEY FOLLOWED ALONG then it’s safe to say it wasn’t a bad thing to do.

Funny how a country founded on so called Christian morals has gone so far from its roots… but then I don’t know much about the US so I could be wrong that it was initially a Christian country.

It was a country of Christians. Its government was set up to be secular, but the Judeo-Christian values of its citizens were integral to the success of that kind of system.
Government can only be value free when its citizens are firm in their set of values, and are allowed to express those values freely.

Leftism unfortunately is becoming the official religion, and Christians expressing Christian values is becoming strictly verboeten in that kind of theocracy.

 

[Gift_from_God]

Funny how a country founded on so called Christian morals has gone so far from its roots… but then I don’t know much about the US so I could be wrong that it was initially a Christian country.

The First Amendment states that Congress can’t respect the establishment of a religion or prohibit free practice thereof. It is therefore not built on Christian morals since it does not adhere to Christianity

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

Don’t bring abortion into this

Um, no. You cited Supreme Court rulings to support your position and I showed the obvious flaw in that.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

The First Amendment states that Congress can’t respect the establishment of a religion or prohibit free practice thereof. It is therefore not built on Christian morals since it does not adhere to Christianity

That is a false assertion. The country could be loosely founded on Christian morals or could be mostly founded on Christian morals, etc.

 

[Corki]

The First Amendment states that Congress can’t respect the establishment of a religion or prohibit free practice thereof. It is therefore not built on Christian morals since it does not adhere to Christianity

The First Ammendment says that Congress can not make a law respecting the establishment of religion or free exercise thereof.

There is no government endorsement of what this student did, let alone a mandate to do it. So much for the first part.

The student’s right to exercise her religion through public prayer is also protected as long as it is not directed nor compelled by the government entity (the school).

 

[SamH]

The First Amendment states that Congress can’t respect the establishment of a religion or prohibit free practice thereof. It is therefore not built on Christian morals since it does not adhere to Christianity

So was this student passing a law?

 

[pinay]

Leftism unfortunately is becoming the official religion, and Christians expressing Christian values is becoming strictly verboeten in that kind of theocracy.

This is not quite accurate. It is not a secret that President Obama attends church (sometimes the Baptist church, sometimes Episcopalian, sometimes United, but church nonetheless) and therefore, completely establishes that church is a cool thing to do. Bush did the same before him and even encouraged faith-based charities.

Harry Reid teaches Gospel Doctrine class in the LDS Church and Nancy Pelosi still hasn’t quite learned the difference between Church and State and still goes pleading to the Catholic church to do stuff for her.

Christian values are not verboten anywhere.

If anything - it’s the parents’ thinking that the public school is where their children learn/practice religion that messes things up for everybody.

 

[irishpatrick]

The student can’t be saying it. It doesn’t matter if a majority of the students participated because the minority matters as well

If you want to pray, pray on your own time

So you are an advocate of denying free speech and denying freedom of religion. Good to know.

Tell me though, what harm was done (be laser precise on this one please).

 

[irishpatrick]

It was a country of Christians. Its government was set up to be secular, but the Judeo-Christian values of its citizens were integral to the success of that kind of system.
Government can only be value free when its citizens are firm in their set of values, and are allowed to express those values freely.

Leftism unfortunately is becoming the official religion, and Christians expressing Christian values is becoming strictly verboeten in that kind of theocracy.

Please understand that those on the left will not agree, even though it is true.

 

[irishpatrick]

The First Amendment states that Congress can’t respect the establishment of a religion or prohibit free practice thereof. It is therefore not built on Christian morals since it does not adhere to Christianity

Hmmm…“or the free pratice thereof…”

 

[pinay]

The First Ammendment says that Congress can not make a law respecting the establishment of religion or free exercise thereof.

There is no government endorsement of what this student did, let alone a mandate to do it. So much for the first part.

The student’s right to exercise her religion through public prayer is also protected as long as it is not directed nor compelled by the government entity (the school).

You are completely correct.

Except… if you are asked to deliver the graduation address to the students by the faculty/administration, you are doing so on-behalf of the administration. Your speech will need to be vetted. If it was just a “free for all” public speech, that would be different.