ACLU wants apology after student leads graduation crowd in reciting Lord's Prayer

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pinay said:
In a democratic society of 5 wolves and a sheep, democracy is great… unless you’re the sheep.
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Remember…we live under a system that cherishes life, liberty (the personal kind), and the pursuit of personal happiness. In general, even your sheep is far happier under our system than it would be under others.
 
ChristIsTheWay said:
That is a false assertion. The country could be loosely founded on Christian morals or could be mostly founded on Christian morals, etc.
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Nope, none. There just happens to be laws that are compatible with Christianity
 
pinay said:
You are completely correct.

Except… if you are asked to deliver the graduation address to the students by the faculty/administration, you are doing so on-behalf of the administration. Your speech will need to be vetted. If it was just a “free for all” public speech, that would be different.
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Okay–so kick the student out of school. 🙂
 
Corki said:
The First Ammendment says that Congress can not make a law respecting the establishment of religion or free exercise thereof.

There is no government endorsement of what this student did, let alone a mandate to do it. So much for the first part.

The student’s right to exercise her religion through public prayer is also protected as long as it is not directed nor compelled by the government entity (the school).
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It’s a public school with government funding. They can’t be allowing student-lead prayers
 
punishment to the student who disobeyed the order
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It’s a graduation ceremony… how do they propose she be punished? Detention?

“Hi, well yes I know you just graduated but I’m going to have to ask you to stick around for 45 minutes after class. What’s that? Oh I know we already gave you your diploma but the ACLU is requesting that we punish you. Oh can you apologize too? That’d be swell, thanks!”
 
pinay said:
You are completely correct.

Except… if you are asked to deliver the graduation address to the students by the faculty/administration, you are doing so on-behalf of the administration. Your speech will need to be vetted. If it was just a “free for all” public speech, that would be different.
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Where are you getting your information that the student was picked by the administration or that her speech was vetted? She wasn’t the valedictorian or salutatorian. She was leading the moment of silence.

I went to a graduation last spring here in Texas. The valedictorian and salutatorian addresses were faith-filled but not overtly Christian. They had a third speaker. There was a statement in the program that this speaker was chosen by the senior class students themselves and not speaking on behalf of the administration. Her speech was full of references to Jesus and the Bible. She did not lead prayer but it was her own speech and it was very Christ-filled. Her speech wasn’t a free-for-all but it wasn’t part of the administration’s directives either.
 
irishpatrick said:
Okay–so kick the student out of school. 🙂
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Yep! Exactly! :D:D

By the way, this actually happened in Florida. The school valedictorian was asked to give the graduation speech, the speech was vetted and she was asked to change a part of it, she submitted a new speech, they approved it, but she gave the original address at the podium. The school withheld her diploma and gave her a certificate of completion instead which shot her chance at the University she was planning to attend.

Her parents tried to sue the school - but, hey, freedom of speech doesn’t protect you from certain consequences, so she did some summer program to get her diploma and she started college a semester late.

Okay, so I just heard this from a friend of mine - there’s probably some inaccuracy to the story… I didn’t bother to look it up.
 
Gift_from_God said:
It’s a public school with government funding. They can’t be allowing student-lead prayers
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It happened all the time in years past…yet even today students can say prayers, they still retain free speech and freedom of religion. The school cannot sanctioned the prayer.
 
pinay said:
Yep! Exactly! :D:D

By the way, this actually happened in Florida. A girl was asked to give the graduation speech, the speech was vetted and she was asked to change a part of it, she submitted a new speech, they approved it, but she gave the original address at the podium. The school withheld her diploma and gave her a certificate of completion instead which shot her chance at the University she was planning to attend.

Her parents tried to sue the school - but, hey, freedom of speech doesn’t protect you from certain consequences, so she did some summer program to get her diploma and she started college a semester late.
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Amazing how lawsuits from the left can bite, but when a Christian rightly sues for her diploma (which she earned), she is denied and has to find another path. It shocks me that people from both the left and the right do not speak against such things.
 
Gift_from_God said:
It’s a public school with government funding. They can’t be allowing student-lead prayers
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Again, you are projecting Canadian law on a US situation. In the US, student-led prayer is allowed in public schools as long as it is not directed by the school and, in some states must be outside of regular class time.

Graduation is held after school hours; no one is required to be there - not even the graduates - and the prayer was student initiated.

This case was in Louisiana but in Texas, it is even permitted for a teacher to lead prayer as long as students aren’t forced to join in.
 
Corki said:
Again, you are projecting Canadian law on a US situation. In the US, student-led prayer is allowed in public schools as long as it is not directed by the school and, in some states must be outside of regular class time.

Graduation is held after school hours; no one is required to be there - not even the graduates - and the prayer was student initiated.

This case was in Louisiana but in Texas, it is even permitted for a teacher to lead prayer as long as students aren’t forced to join in.
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People do not seem to understand there is no coercive act here.
 
pinay said:
Yep! Exactly! :D:D

By the way, this actually happened in Florida. The school valedictorian was asked to give the graduation speech, the speech was vetted and she was asked to change a part of it, she submitted a new speech, they approved it, but she gave the original address at the podium. The school withheld her diploma and gave her a certificate of completion instead which shot her chance at the University she was planning to attend.

Her parents tried to sue the school - but, hey, freedom of speech doesn’t protect you from certain consequences, so she did some summer program to get her diploma and she started college a semester late.

Okay, so I just heard this from a friend of mine - there’s probably some inaccuracy to the story… I didn’t bother to look it up.
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citation, please? This story does not ring true. University acceptances are finallized well before graduation ceremonies. If a university withdrew an acceptance for a reason unrelated to successfully completing required classwork, that university would be facing lawsuits of its own.
 
Gift_from_God said:
It’s a public school with government funding. They can’t be allowing student-lead prayers
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Do you have ANY legal basis to make your point? You keep repeating this, but it is merely opinion, and not what the law or Constitution states.
 
I think that next time the students should simply recite the “Bible Hymn of the Republic”. Oops! I meant the “Battle hymn of the Republic”: 🙂

[Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps;
His day is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His day is marching on.

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel;
“As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal”;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Since God is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free;
While God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! While God is marching on.

He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is wisdom to the mighty, He is honor to the brave;
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of wrong His slave,
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.](
)
 
If I were that student, I would flat out refuse to give an apology. I wouldn’t apologize for praying the best prayer ever.
 
Cristiano said:
I think that next time the students should simply recite the “Bible Hymn of the Republic”. Oops! I meant the “Battle hymn of the Republic”: 🙂

[Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps;
His day is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His day is marching on.

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel;
“As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal”;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Since God is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free;
While God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! While God is marching on.

He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is wisdom to the mighty, He is honor to the brave;
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of wrong His slave,
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.](
)
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Shuuush…quiet please…no waking the patrons …
 
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