Adam was not a sinner

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Adam was not a sinner , he only made a mistake, he felt sorry for that and repented before GodAllahYHWH, and He accepted his repentance and forgave him; so Adam was as clean as before he was at the time of his birth.

This is like Jonah, who also made a mistake, accepted his mistake, repented before GodAllahYHWH, resolved not to do it again and he was also forgiven.

Jesus was more like Adam that is why he often used to say Son of Man, or Son of Adam , so if one believes that Jesus was a sinless person,( at least I believe this) this tantamount to saying that Adam was sinless and innocent.

If Jesus would have thought that Adam was a sinful person , then Jesus would have never said that he was Son of Man i.e., Son of Adam. What relation an innocent man had with a sinful person? Jesus would never have imagined that Adam was sinful that is why he took him as his father or grand father and announced it publicly.

Thanks
 
sin=missing the mark. Adam went off target. God gave him one command and he broke it.

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ "

4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Oh look he was with her, heard the entire conversation and saw which tree she picked it from He didn’t make a mistake, he knowingly rebelled against Gods command. He sinned!
 
paarsurrey said:
Adam was not a sinner , he only made a mistake, he felt sorry for that and repented before GodAllahYHWH, and He accepted his repentance and forgave him; so Adam was as clean as before he was at the time of his birth.
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Didn’t God have to come looking for Adam, with Adam and Eve hiding from him?

Didn’t Adam try to blame it all on Eve?

Doesn’t sound like repentence to me.

But, even if Adam did properly repent, which I feel sure he did, he still had to suffer the temporal (not the eternal) penalty for his sin.

If you rob a bank and get caught, and you repent before God, God will forgive you if you’re truly contrite. But, the state will still send you to prison for a few years, since your repentence before God didn’t satisfy the state’s demand for its own justice.
 
The previous posts address the scriptural issues involved here. The OP does not contain anything like scriptural justification.

Gen 3 lists the punishments A&E get for their transgression. The most conspicuous is expulsion from the garden of Paradise / Eden.

There is simply no way to explain the rest of the bible if you miss what’s going on in the early chapters of Genesis.
 
adam was not a sinner when he was created by God. he was a perfect human being. he lost his perfection when he deliberately disobeyed God. the Bible supports this in more than one occasion, and here is evidence of it,

Romans 5:12

NASB: Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned–

the above quote from Romans 5:12 is speaking of adams sin and what happens to us all as a result of his disobedience to God.

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by a man came death (adam), by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. (Jesus)

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
 
TraditionalCath said:
adam was not a sinner when he was created by God. he was a perfect human being. he lost his perfection when **he deliberately disobeyed **God.
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Hi

We were discussing things from OTBible, which Jesus referred/consulted often, not from NTBible.

The quotation provided by you are just inferences/conjectures from the Genesis and nothing more. When the original Genesis is available why should it not be read and understood correctly first of all.

When we see the Genesis we don’t find words/syllables perfect human being, lost his perfection , **he deliberately disobeyed **, not even mentioned there in the text.

If wrong inferences could be made, then I could also suggest meaningful, sensible, logical and rational inferences, there is no harm. What is a Book for if it does not add wisdom to the knowledge of man? It must be full of wisdom.

Thank you
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

We were discussing things from OTBible, which Jesus referred/consulted often, not from NTBible.

The quotation provided by you are just inferences/conjectures from the Genesis and nothing more. When the original Genesis is available why should it not be read and understood correctly first of all.

When we see the Genesis we don’t find words/syllables perfect human being, lost his perfection , **he deliberately disobeyed **, not even mentioned there in the text.

If wrong inferences could be made, then I could also suggest meaningful, sensible, logical and rational inferences, there is no harm. What is a Book for if it does not add wisdom to the knowledge of man? It must be full of wisdom.

Thank you
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umm, your wrong. the quotes i provided to you are in the new testament. i suggest you go back and have a look. or do you not know your new testament?
 
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:22-24 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter)

Romans 5:12
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ ] Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
Romans 5:11-13 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter)
 
paarsurrey said:
When we see the Genesis we don’t find words/syllables perfect human being, lost his perfection , **he deliberately disobeyed **, not even mentioned there in the text.

If wrong inferences could be made, then I could also suggest meaningful, sensible, logical and rational inferences, there is no harm. What is a Book for if it does not add wisdom to the knowledge of man? It must be full of wisdom.

Thank you
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Paarsurrey, how are you?

Are you implying that God created Adam imperfectly?

Genesis Chapter one verses 26 and 28 tells a different story.

If God created man in his image and likeness, how could you say that adam or eve for that matter were not created perfectly?

Chapter 3 of Genesis covers the punishment and consequences (start at verse 14 for clarity.

If God forgave Adam the way you have mentioned in another post, why didn’t God let him back into the Garden?
They (Adam and Eve) still lived in Eden but not in the garden anymore.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

We were discussing things from OTBible, which Jesus referred/consulted often, not from NTBible.

The quotation provided by you are just inferences/conjectures from the Genesis and nothing more. When the original Genesis is available why should it not be read and understood correctly first of all.
Click to expand...
The original OT shows Adam being booted from the Garden for his disobedience, and God going so far as to CURSE Adam!

If Adam merely made a “mistake” and “repented” (and why would he need to repent of a mere “mistake” anyway? Also where in the OT does it say he repented?), why does “Allah the just, the merciful” CURSE him?
And to the man He said,
‘Because you have listened to the voice of your wife you have eaten of the tree
about which I commanded you, saying, you shall not eat from it,
cursed shall be the ground because of you;
in sorrow you shall eat of it all the days of your life.
And thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
and you shall eat the plant of the field.
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until you return to the ground;
for out of it you have been taken;
for dust you are, and to dust you shall return.’ (Genesis 3:17-19)
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More to the point, Paarsurrey, why are you on a Catholic Answers forum diseminating Islamic beliefs?

If you are trying to understand Catholicism, shouldn’t you be asking questions? If you are trying to proselytize for Islam, shouldn’t you be honest and say that is your intention? Just curious.

–D <><
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

We were discussing things from OTBible, which Jesus referred/consulted often, not from NTBible.

The quotation provided by you are just inferences/conjectures from the Genesis and nothing more. When the original Genesis is available why should it not be read and understood correctly first of all.

When we see the Genesis we don’t find words/syllables perfect human being, lost his perfection , **he deliberately disobeyed **, not even mentioned there in the text.

If wrong inferences could be made, then I could also suggest meaningful, sensible, logical and rational inferences, there is no harm. What is a Book for if it does not add wisdom to the knowledge of man? It must be full of wisdom.

Thank you
Click to expand...
Genesis God said “If you eat of the tree of the know;ledge of good and evil you will die.” An NT equivalent is “The wages of sin is death.”

Adam died spiritually because he sinned.
 
East_Anglican said:
Genesis God said “If you eat of the tree of the know;ledge of good and evil you will die.” An NT equivalent is “The wages of sin is death.”
Adam died spiritually because he sinned.
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Hi

Yet Jesus was proud to call himself Son of Man, that amply proves that according to Jesus, Adam was not a sinful person.

Thanks
 
Dear Paarasurry- no. That does not amply prove a thing IMO.

Why did Adam and Eve start wearing clothes?

I have asked you some questions you have not answered yet, but if you could just add this one in with the rest, that would work for me.🙂
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
Adam was not a sinner , he only made a mistake, he felt sorry for that and repented before GodAllahYHWH, and He accepted his repentance and forgave him; so Adam was as clean as before he was at the time of his birth.

This is like Jonah, who also made a mistake, accepted his mistake, repented before GodAllahYHWH, resolved not to do it again and he was also forgiven.

Jesus was more like Adam that is why he often used to say Son of Man, or Son of Adam , so if one believes that Jesus was a sinless person,( at least I believe this) this tantamount to saying that Adam was sinless and innocent.

If Jesus would have thought that Adam was a sinful person , then Jesus would have never said that he was Son of Man i.e., Son of Adam. What relation an innocent man had with a sinful person? Jesus would never have imagined that Adam was sinful that is why he took him as his father or grand father and announced it publicly.

Thanks
Click to expand...
This is an interesting idea, but basically flawed. Jesus knew full well that Adam was flawed. He knew that Adam had sinned, and he also knew the difference between a sin and a “mistake”.
The human aspect of Jesus would of course be descended from Adam, but that doesn’t really mean too much in this arguement. It means he was true God and true man. All he does by acknowledging himself as the “Son of Man” is acknowledge that is has a human aspect to his being. The fact that his “grandfather” sinned shortly after creatation means nothing to or about Jesus.
 
Hellisreal said:
Dear Paarasurry- no. That does not amply prove a thing IMO.

**Why did Adam and Eve start wearing clothes? **

I have asked you some questions you have not answered yet, but if you could just add this one in with the rest, that would work for me.🙂
Click to expand...
That’s right! Before they sinned, they were so innocent that they didn’t even know they were naked! After they sinned, the scales dropped from their eyes, they realized their nakedness and went to cover themselves! Their innocence and ours was shattered forever!

Vickie
 
I have always understood the Son of Man to mean that Jesus was both Human and God, by stating that he in the son of man he is reminding us that he came for us as a man, so that we do not forget that the suffering he went through for us and think that it was easy - as it would be for God the Father…the suffering Jesus felt can be related to because he was the Son of Man with a body likeours…also that we should relate to Jesus as a fellow man and be able to follow the example set by Him as the Son of Adam - the new example, the right example where Adam failed. It also reminds me that Adam sinned, and we all sin, and this is the reason Jesus came for us. He is the Son of Man as he came to save our sin, and if Adam and Eve had not sinned there would be no need.

He is also Son of God… and these two things serve to emphasise his dual nature.
 
paarsurrey said:
Yet Jesus was proud to call himself Son of Man, that amply proves that according to Jesus, Adam was not a sinful person.
Click to expand...
The one does not prove the other. That you assert it does shows you to be in error.

“Captain, that is illogical…” 😉
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
Adam was not a sinner , he only made a mistake, he felt sorry for that and repented before GodAllahYHWH, and He accepted his repentance and forgave him; so Adam was as clean as before he was at the time of his birth.

Who is GodAllahYHWH?

What a mistake. Oops, I tripped and the Apple fell in my mouth.

Adam willfully ate the apple in disobedience to God, no mistake there.
This is like Jonah, who also made a mistake, accepted his mistake, repented before GodAllahYHWH, resolved not to do it again and he was also forgiven.
Click to expand...
Jesus loved sinners. He ate and sat with them. He died on the cross to pay for your sin. Repent AND put your full trust in Jesus, the Son of God.
Click to expand...
 
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