H
Hellisreal
Guest
Paarasurry?
Are you around?
Are you around?
- Status
P
paarsurrey
Guest
HiDear Paarasurry- no. That does not amply prove a thing IMO.
Why did Adam and Eve start wearing clothes?
I have asked you some questions you have not answered yet, but if you could just add this one in with the rest, that would work for me.
Who provided them the clothes and why?
Were there other men and women who worked as weavers to make clothes for them? That would prove that there were other men and women.
Thanks
I
inJESUS
Guest
Volume 8, Book 77, Number 611:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. ‘O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.’ Then Adam said to him, ‘O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?’ So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses,” the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times.
well…this is a sound Islamic text yet Muslims shout that Adam’s “mistake” had no consequence on humanity…if a mistake leads out of paradise then what does a sin do
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. ‘O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.’ Then Adam said to him, ‘O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?’ So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses,” the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times.
well…this is a sound Islamic text yet Muslims shout that Adam’s “mistake” had no consequence on humanity…if a mistake leads out of paradise then what does a sin do
F
fellowChristian
Guest
Genesis 2
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but **you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge **of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”
That is a command from God
And Adam was with Eve the whole time and he let her deal with the devil then disobeyed God’s earlier command—
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
To sin means to offend, to be guilty,to transgress.
To transgress means to violate a law, command,to go beyond the limits imposed.
The limit was set and Adam went beyond that limit.He offended God. It was a sin.
Adam also blamed God-----
Genesis 3
12 The man said, “The woman **you put here **with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
At least Eve took the blame—
Genesis 3
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “**The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” **
And anyway paarsurrey --don’t Ahmadi ( Muslim ) 's believe that the bible is corrupt? So why do you read it?
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but **you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge **of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”
That is a command from God
And Adam was with Eve the whole time and he let her deal with the devil then disobeyed God’s earlier command—
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
To sin means to offend, to be guilty,to transgress.
To transgress means to violate a law, command,to go beyond the limits imposed.
The limit was set and Adam went beyond that limit.He offended God. It was a sin.
Adam also blamed God-----
Genesis 3
12 The man said, “The woman **you put here **with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
At least Eve took the blame—
Genesis 3
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “**The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” **
And anyway paarsurrey --don’t Ahmadi ( Muslim ) 's believe that the bible is corrupt? So why do you read it?
E
East_Anglican
Guest
I do not intend to offend you, but here goes.
It appaers to me that Ahmadi’s are just as obsessed with semantics as other Muslims. He was the son of man because he was made a man.
Adam sinned. As Jesus’ father was God, he did not inherit Adam’s sin.
As Muslims don’t believe the fact that Jesus is the son of God, they have problems with this theology.
By the rules of covenmant, no covenant partner can ask the other to do what they are not willing and able to do themselves. God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son. Do you believe that? By the rules of covenant God would have had to be willing and able to sacrifice his son for Abraham. God did and God never breaks covenant.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
The man before Adam though was breathing like a horse was breathing or a dove was breathing; man’s distinction over other animates was that he was destined to receive word of God, when that stage came that was a special kind of breathing he received revelation or word of GodAllahYHWH which set new goals of progress for him that were not known to other animals.
God taught man to talk that is breathing new life to man that has been mentioned in the Genesis, to express his emotions and to store knowledge and convey it to future generations, this quality is breathing new life to Adam, previously he was like a moving animal only. Could one ever think such a primitive man could invent any languages? A little rational reasoning is required to get these things from Genesis, never mind if the Clergy could not discern these things from the Book. God sent the Book for everybody, clergy has no exclusive rights on the Book, more than an ordinary men, specially if they cannot understand the Book and the every day sensible things.
Thanks
The man before Adam though was breathing like a horse was breathing or a dove was breathing; man’s distinction over other animates was that he was destined to receive word of God, when that stage came that was a special kind of breathing he received revelation or word of GodAllahYHWH which set new goals of progress for him that were not known to other animals.
God taught man to talk that is breathing new life to man that has been mentioned in the Genesis, to express his emotions and to store knowledge and convey it to future generations, this quality is breathing new life to Adam, previously he was like a moving animal only. Could one ever think such a primitive man could invent any languages? A little rational reasoning is required to get these things from Genesis, never mind if the Clergy could not discern these things from the Book. God sent the Book for everybody, clergy has no exclusive rights on the Book, more than an ordinary men, specially if they cannot understand the Book and the every day sensible things.
Thanks
F
fellowChristian
Guest
Adam was created without sin. He became a sinner. When he disobeyed God’s command to not eat the fruit.
Genesis 2
16 The LORD **God commanded **the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Genesis 3
6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to **her husband with her, and he ate. **
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
18"Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.”
Gensis 3
21The LORD **God made garments of skin **for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
Because of their sins an animal had to be sacrificed. The first sacrifice for sins
**
Hosea 6:7**
But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant;There they have dealt treacherously against Me.
**
Romans 5:14**
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
Genesis 2
16 The LORD **God commanded **the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Genesis 3
6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to **her husband with her, and he ate. **
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
18"Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.”
Gensis 3
21The LORD **God made garments of skin **for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
Because of their sins an animal had to be sacrificed. The first sacrifice for sins
**
Hosea 6:7**
But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant;There they have dealt treacherously against Me.
**
Romans 5:14**
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
D
Dulcimer
Guest
Parsurrey, you have been answered…You do not refute the answer, but obfuscate and change the subject, introducing your opinion that it “is not so”.
I now conclude that you have no interest in genuine dialog, and only in pushing your particular opinion on the rest of us. I’m not playing that game.
God Bless You; may you come to the truth about Isa/Jesus, THE SON OF GOD.
–D <><
T
TraditionalCath
Guest
one final thing for you. adam as others said truthfully here, was created a perfect human being. and when he was created, he was nothing less than a perfect human being. he had the full faculties that we have. the difference between us and him before his fall was that he never suffered any kind of illness exct. he was not primitive by any means.
i think dulcimer has it correct, that you don’t want to hear us, or what we have to say. thus there is nothing left to say on this topic to you. if you wanted to hear us, you would’ve by now.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Adam was not the only PerfectMan created. All ProphetsMessengers like Noah, Abraham, Jacob and Moses were all PerfectMen created.
I could not understand that Adam never suffered an illness while Jesus has to suffer a lot of misery on Cross. Where did you get that, kindly let us know, maybe it is your guess?
Thanks
My Catholic friends should pause a little here, and think unbiased; they would realize that the status of Jesus was higher to Jonah, accepted without doubt, but lesser to Moses.
M
Mirdath
Guest
paarsurrey, I think you’re missing the mark a little here (and yeah, insert the usual warnings about how I don’t believe what I’m about to discuss)
According to the old testament, Adam was created innocent and without sin, and by choosing to exercise his will against God’s he fell from that blameless state. A similar story is that of Pandora’s box from Greek mythology, in which disobedience of divine command leads to the introduction of disease, suffering, evil, and sin into the world.
Adam and Eve allowed pain, sickness, and death into the world; and they died, so why should they not have been susceptible to the other consequences? After all, in God’s farewell curse as the two are banished from Eden, he tells Eve that childbirth will become traumatic.
Adam was not created perfect, because only God could be truly perfect; instead, he was created good and innocent. No human is truly perfect; even the Catholic belief of the condition of Mary is not that she was/is perfect, but innocent of the stain of Adam’s sin.
Nor were the prophets perfect: Abraham lied to the Pharaoh for his own advantage, Jacob swindled his own brother out of his birthright, Moses struck the rock instead of speaking to it, Jonah first fled God’s command and later waited for schadenfreude over Nineveh’s destruction, Jeremiah routinely excoriated God for making his life so difficult; Elisha called upon God to send bears to kill a gang of children; Jesus cursed a fig tree that was only out of season. Even the Psalmist was an adulterer. None of them were perfect, or in any way ‘better’ themselves than the rest of us; what made them special is that God touched them directly.
Jesus’ calling himself the ‘Son of Man’ in the new testament reflects his mission as messiah: to undo the consequences of Adam’s sin, to open the gates of heaven. Similarly, Mary is the new Eve, free from original sin; to reflect Genesis 3:15 (I will put enmity between [the serpent] and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel), she is often portrayed in Catholic art standing on a snake. Adam and Eve caused us to fall; Jesus and Mary act to help us stand again.
According to the old testament, Adam was created innocent and without sin, and by choosing to exercise his will against God’s he fell from that blameless state. A similar story is that of Pandora’s box from Greek mythology, in which disobedience of divine command leads to the introduction of disease, suffering, evil, and sin into the world.
Adam and Eve allowed pain, sickness, and death into the world; and they died, so why should they not have been susceptible to the other consequences? After all, in God’s farewell curse as the two are banished from Eden, he tells Eve that childbirth will become traumatic.
Adam was not created perfect, because only God could be truly perfect; instead, he was created good and innocent. No human is truly perfect; even the Catholic belief of the condition of Mary is not that she was/is perfect, but innocent of the stain of Adam’s sin.
Nor were the prophets perfect: Abraham lied to the Pharaoh for his own advantage, Jacob swindled his own brother out of his birthright, Moses struck the rock instead of speaking to it, Jonah first fled God’s command and later waited for schadenfreude over Nineveh’s destruction, Jeremiah routinely excoriated God for making his life so difficult; Elisha called upon God to send bears to kill a gang of children; Jesus cursed a fig tree that was only out of season. Even the Psalmist was an adulterer. None of them were perfect, or in any way ‘better’ themselves than the rest of us; what made them special is that God touched them directly.
Jesus’ calling himself the ‘Son of Man’ in the new testament reflects his mission as messiah: to undo the consequences of Adam’s sin, to open the gates of heaven. Similarly, Mary is the new Eve, free from original sin; to reflect Genesis 3:15 (I will put enmity between [the serpent] and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel), she is often portrayed in Catholic art standing on a snake. Adam and Eve caused us to fall; Jesus and Mary act to help us stand again.
D
Dulcimer
Guest
Bravo, Mirdath! (Are you sure you’re that far from the Kingdom of Heavan?)
impressed
impressed
D
Dulcimer
Guest
Actually, there was more than one Psalmist; Solomon and Asaph also wrote a few. And King David was not only an adulterer but a murderer as well. David was recorded as “a man after God’s own heart, except in the matter of Bathsheba”, which covers the murder of her husband as well as the adultery with B herself.
I do not know what the official Catholic stance on Mary being the new Eve is. I personally am unfamiliar with this doctrine.
M
Mirdath
Guest
Thanks
I was raised Catholic and have read a lot, so I know my stuff pretty well, I just lack faith And to clarify, yes, I included Jesus in the list of prophets – and I know he isn’t just that, according to Christianity, but then I’m not talking to a Christian. I do like the story of the fig-tree though; it makes Jesus seem a little more human.
Yeah, but there’s one ‘The Psalmist’
It’s not a doctrine that I know of, but it’s a classic position of many of the fathers of the Church. I found this page, which references a bunch of them, if you’re interested
T
TraditionalCath
Guest
wrong again. Jesus is God’s Son, He is far greater than moses by far. Jesus is God, the 2sd Person of the Holy Trinity. He is True God, and True man, The Word Incarnate.No other man in history has or ever will be as great as Jesus Christ. No other man will ever be True God, and True man, The Word Incarnate. None. only Jesus Christ
D
Dulcimer
Guest
I also liked that his first miracle is to further the enjoyment of a PARTY with alcohol… grin
D
Dulcimer
Guest
RE: Mary being the “new Eve”:
I’m ALWAYS interested in more information! Thanks for the Link!It’s not a doctrine that I know of, but it’s a classic position of many of the fathers of the Church. I found this page, which references a bunch of them, if you’re interested
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
If you have misunderstood, you could rectify it, there is still a chance. Jesus called himself Son of Man or Son of Adam, as he knew that some of his followers might at sometimes assume him as a deity, so in spite of the fact he had no physical father, he thought it proper to say one for himself amongst the human beings from his elders. He chose the first Perfect Man Adam and ascribed father-ship to him.
Jesus had a choice he could have taken Abraham, or Moses or David as his father but he preferred Adam and for his second coming he also used the title Son of Man or Son of Adam. This was just to show that Adam did not sin and Adam was first man with whom GodAllahYHWH had direct conversation and there was no hereditary effect of Adam’s mistake.
People say that Jesus said about him Son of Man because Adam was a sinner, and he loved sinners. There they are wrong, one loves sinners as there is a chance that he may repent and become a virtuous fellow so sin is to be condemned not the sinners, that is for the live sinners, the dead sinners are not to be loved just because they sinned as they are under judgment of God. So to prove innocence of Adam, Jesus ascribed himself to him and took him as father.
If Adam is a sinner, then probably Jesus is also a virtual such person (I take refuge from God), if Adam is innocent only then Jesus is innocent and sinless. So by taking Adam as his father, Jesus uprooted the creed of inheritance of sin.
Thanks
The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir
I
inJESUS
Guest
You are talking against what the OLd Testament and New Testament and your ahadith say. I didn’t know that Ahmadiyya is that away from the truth, but well…
Jesus died in Kashmir hahaha sorry couldn’t help:shrug:
Jesus died in Kashmir
hahaha sorry couldn’t help:shrug:
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Previously men/women were living naked like all other fellow animals, with the Revelation from GodAllahYHWH, they were supposed to become civilised, so they started to cover themselves with the tree-leaves, that showed their good intention and that they were better placed than the other animals.
It was GodAllahYHWH who provided them first proper clothes, as a token of having forgiven their mistakes and to show his pleasure/love for them.This is mentioned in the OTBible.
Thanks
The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir
- Status