ADL List of "top issues affecting Jews" includes traditional Catholic prayer!

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wifeandmomoftwo said:
I am sorry, but “why” should the Jews worry about or prayers or what/whom we pray for??
Do we tell them to take out the offensive things that are in the Torah about Jesus?
Perhaps the ADL will take up this cause for us Catholics?!
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The Torah contains nothing offensive about Jesus as he didn’t exist yet when it was written. The Talmud, may contain some offensive things about Jesus, depending on how you interpret it and if you can actually tie any of the passages to Jesus (see angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html for some theories).

I believe I have heard the saying Lex orandi, lex credendi, if people are praying for the conversion, specifically, of the Jews, it may be more difficult for them to accept Jews as a vibrant part of the community and their culture as worthy of respect as part of the diverse heritage of this land.
 
Oh, and most Jews I know consider those who have rejected Judaism to no longer be Jews. The culture may survive for a generation or two, but it will inevitably die off because the Jewish culture and Jewish religion are so intrinsically tied together.
 
a_cermak said:
The Torah contains nothing offensive about Jesus as he didn’t exist yet when it was written. The Talmud, may contain some offensive things about Jesus, depending on how you interpret it and if you can actually tie any of the passages to Jesus (see angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html for some theories).

I believe I have heard the saying Lex orandi, lex credendi, if people are praying for the conversion, specifically, of the Jews, it may be more difficult for them to accept Jews as a vibrant part of the community and their culture as worthy of respect as part of the diverse heritage of this land.
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In waiting for a false “Messiah”, the Jews are vulnerable to the plans of the antichrist. Thus we must convert the Jews and bring them out of the darkness.
 
a_cermak said:
Oh, and most Jews I know consider those who have rejected Judaism to no longer be Jews. The culture may survive for a generation or two, but it will inevitably die off because the Jewish culture and Jewish religion are so intrinsically tied together.
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See, the thing is that sects like “reform Judaism” are basically atheism with religious trappings. Thus the members can endorse anti-God activities and all the while claim to be good Jews.
 
So, you’re an expert on Reform Judaism? I am a member of a Reform temple. We are not atheists, we are Jews.

Are you thinking of the Humanist Jews (they are one of the five official branches of Judaism)?

What the heck is an anti-God activity anyway?
 
RomanCrusader said:
In waiting for a false “Messiah”, the Jews are vulnerable to the plans of the antichrist. Thus we must convert the Jews and bring them out of the darkness.
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Umm, not all Jews are waiting for a Messiah. Some are, some aren’t. I’m personally not, nor am I all that much in darkness (well, right now, right after the Solstice, it’s kind of dark, but the days are getting longer).
 
a_cermak said:
So, you’re an expert on Reform Judaism? I am a member of a Reform temple. We are not atheists, we are Jews.

Are you thinking of the Humanist Jews (they are one of the five official branches of Judaism)?

What the heck is an anti-God activity anyway?
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Reform Judaism has endorsed homosexual relationships, the abortion holocaust, and an extreme version of church-state separation. I’d say those are anti-God activities!

I also consider zionism (due to it being racist and a denial of Christ) to be anti-God, but I understand why you do not.

I will concede that I did use a broad brush. I do not accuse you personally of atheism, but I do think your sect has been infiltrated by atheism, as have many Christian churches.

No religion that endorses abortion is from God.
 
a_cermak said:
Umm, not all Jews are waiting for a Messiah. Some are, some aren’t. I’m personally not, nor am I all that much in darkness (well, right now, right after the Solstice, it’s kind of dark, but the days are getting longer).
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So you think a Messiah will never come?
 
RomanCrusader said:
So you think a Messiah will never come?
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I suppose I would say that several Messiahs have come through the ages, each returning the Deity’s people to Him and His ways when they have wandered or been scattered or harmed.

But I do not believe in a Messiah that will usher in the end of time itself.
 
RomanCrusader said:
Reform Judaism has endorsed homosexual relationships, the abortion holocaust, and an extreme version of church-state separation. I’d say those are anti-God activities!

I also consider zionism (due to it being racist and a denial of Christ) to be anti-God, but I understand why you do not.

I will concede that I did use a broad brush. I do not accuse you personally of atheism, but I do think your sect has been infiltrated by atheism, as have many Christian churches.

No religion that endorses abortion is from God.
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I can argue abortion both from a Talmudic and from a secular law perspective. I have little trouble with it being legal, though I would have to be under extreme duress to have one myself.

Zionism is not universally accepted by Judaism. At the time of founding, many Orthodox Jews had problems with Israel being founded without the Messiah causing it.

I support the right of Israel to exist, though I do not endorse all or even many of the Israeli government policies. I think the settlements in Palestinian areas are a huge mistake, have caused enormous enmity (most of them were established in areas already settled by Palestinians) both with the Palestinians and amongst Israelis themselves, and are a huge security drain and money pit.

As for homosexual relationships, I fail to see how a gay couple sin in forming a family that blesses the Deity especially if they are determined to live ethically by the Law. At the time of the Torah’s writing, homosexuality tended to be power relations of a master and a slave and that is why they were outlawed. Today, an egalitarian gay couple where both members of said couple choose to be in the relationship, is radically different from what it is the Torah outlawed.
 
I say we respond to them with kindness and love. Of course, I do disagree with them that praying for them is anti-Semitic.
 
I'm sure Moses would of endorsed homosexuality and abortion...
I’m not really sure why people even bother with liberal religion (i.e., reform judaism, unitarianism, church of the flaming pants, etc). Why not just go all the way down the rabbit hole and become an atheist?

Scared?
 
But how is the ADL suggesting that the TLM will affect Jews on an individual level? Do they think that a wave of pogroms will occur? I can see that most Jews think that they don’t need Jesus, but praying for conversions is obviously not the same thing as engaging in anti-semitic violence.
 
But on the other hand, do we not call groups that specifically target Catholics for conversion to Christ anti-Catholic? Don’t we have a double standard here? Perhaps if we claim anti-Semitism referring to the race of Jews, then of course we are not. But Christianity is in a sense today anti-Judaism, in the sense we view the Jewish religion as deficient and its adherents in need of conversion.
 
pnewton said:
But on the other hand, do we not call groups that specifically target Catholics for conversion to Christ anti-Catholic? Don’t we have a double standard here? Perhaps if we claim anti-Semitism referring to the race of Jews, then of course we are not. But Christianity is in a sense today anti-Judaism, in the sense we view the Jewish religion as deficient and its adherents in need of conversion.
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Trying to convert someone to a different religion or sect is different from hating a person because of their background or ethnicity. Nazis, Stalinists, and other notorious anti-semites had no interest in converting Jews, they just wanted them dead because Jews were believed to be intrinsically evil. Hence, Jews were/are targeted for destruction even when they converted to other belief systems.
 
pnewton said:
Let us try a little application of the Golden Rule, in which Catholics are the ones on the other side. **Is it it okay for anti-Catholics to consider us all not Christian and aggressively and angrily convert Catholics out of the Church? ** I can say that they should stick to facts and reason as present in 2 Timothy 2:25, without being hypocritical. Such confrontation should be done with respect of each other and seasoned with kindness. I am anything but namby-pamby. I just don’t believe in stupid tactics just to satisfy our emotional needs for treatment in kind.
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Since when is praying for conversion "aggressively and angrily convert"ing? I think you’re mixing up a lot of different issues here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Catholics praying for the conversion of the Jews. We aren’t Evangelicals we dont’ adhere to the millenial rapture worldview where Jews and Israel are still numero uno in God’s eye. No we believe in the equality in all men, that all men are sinners that need Christ and without Christ those persons are damned Jew, Greek, African, whoever… We’re Catholics who should pray for everyone’s conversion even our own.
 
Basically Jews shouldn’t mind our prayers and simply mind their own business, simple as that. I could care less what they pray about in thier synaguoges. I think as Americans we can all agree with that. Once one religion starts to try and censor another religion using political organizations like the ADL to do it we’ve hit a point of unacceptable.
 
lukewarm said:
Basically Jews shouldn’t mind our prayers and simply mind their own business, simple as that. I could care less what they pray about in thier synaguoges. I think as Americans we can all agree with that. Once one religion starts to try and censor another religion using political organizations like the ADL to do it we’ve hit a point of unacceptable.
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:amen:
 
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