Admitting children of same-sex couples to Catholic elementary schools

[fix]

wcknight:

Lets take an example. Suppose my wife and I have a young grade school age child and we want them raised in a Catholic school. We get into an accidenat and my only other living relative is a sister who lives with a partner, AND according to Church teaching they are living together but in a chaste manner.

They end up adopting my child, which I would much prefer than to have them sent off to live with total strangers. They apply to have my child enrolled in a Catholic grade school. And folks here have decided not to allow kids from a gay couple attend. That is discrimination and folks here have prejudged them to be living in sin. They may be gay but that are doing their best to abide by Church teachings. That is discrimination and bigotry, plain and simple.

The situation applies and it is exactly what we are taliking about.

This is obfuscation.

First, if anyone is living in any way that causes scandal that should be grounds for non admittance. Chaste, or not, none of us should give the appearance of scandal. Each case is different and should be evaluated on its merits. But, in no case should those living in manifest sin be allowed to corrupt others.

Second, The case in CA is about openly “gay” men.

Thirdly, I do not think the Church has in mind children being raised by two SS persons struggling to be not “gay”. As She said children have a right to a mother and a father. The situation you describe is far different from a single parent or an aunt and a daughter, or two widows living together. You mention two women struggling to be chaste. I would question why two SSA people are living togther in the first place. I know some say that is fine, but I think it is not prudent for most folks in that condition and I see no good reason to add a child into that mix.

 

[contemplative]

contemplative:

This push for children of same-sex couples into Catholic schools may be the very nudge our Church needs to raise standards of education for our children to adjust to changes in our culture.Raising standards most certainly could not include children of same-sex partners into Catholic schools.
STEP ONE:
All parents sending children to Catholic schools will be asked to sign a letter of affirmation upholding the Catholic Church.

**Actually, Bishop Robert Vasa of the Oregon Diocese requires all lay ministers of the Church to sign a letter of affirmation. If they refuse they are dismissed from work. Would you like to direct your rif-raf comment to Bishop Vasa? :ehh: **
The following is the testimony of Truth required my lay ministers. If makes a good foundation for a testimony of affirmation for all parents sending their children to Catholic school.

Click here to read Entrusted with Sacred Duties in PDF Format

 

[fix]

Robert in SD:

Hello all;

Let me start with a Scripture reading, followed by a quick thought.
If we are to do God’s work, then why would we turn away a child of one who has sinned. If that were the standard, wouldn’t our own children be turned away from the Catholic schools as well?

-Peace

It is not about sin only. It is about scandal. What did Christ say about those who would cause another to sin?

 

[contemplative]

Robert in SD:

Hello all;

Let me start with a Scripture reading, followed by a quick thought.
If we are to do God’s work, then why would we turn away a child of one who has sinned. If that were the standard, wouldn’t our own children be turned away from the Catholic schools as well?

-Peace

Let all children come but expect ALL parents to sign an affirmation which upholds the Church.

 

[fix]

Libero:

Well perhaps children should be taught to talk only of their own business to teachers, I would certainly not educate any children I had to go telling their teacher, infront of classmates about johnny’s two dads.

In the real world kids talk to each other… In the real world kids want to play with each other at each other’s house. Kids ask all types of questions.

medical help? is their a cure? spiritual help? I dont think that these people need to be told what God thinks, and that they should follow it, there are flaws in such a statement. Such advice offers no solution.

Please see the sites for NARTH, the Catholic Medical Association and the CCC. SSA requires medical intervention. Only in recent years would anyone think differently. It is called desensitization and it happens when we take our cues from the culture instead of the Church.

 

[contemplative]

Libero:

Well perhaps children should be taught to talk only of their own business to teachers, I would certainly not educate any children I had to go telling their teacher, infront of classmates about johnny’s two dads.

What???:whacky:

 

[fix]

Let’s review this from this website and a good priest:

                                     [**Fr. Vincent Serpa**](http://member.php?u=13)

] Re: Should active homosexuals be permitted to flaunt their lifestyle at a CatholicSchool?
Dear GP,

If the couple were a man and a woman who were open about the fact that they were not married, it would be a matter of scandal for the parish to approve such behavior by not challenging it. To give scandal is much more than simply shocking behavior as the dictionary defines it. According to St. Thomas (II-II, Q. liii, a. 1) scandal is a word or action evil in itself, which occasions another’s spiritual ruin.

For the administration of a parish to allow such an open show of defiance of the Church’s moral teaching regarding sexual behavior is not only irresponsible, it is a scandal in itself! Our Lord had some very strong words about one who would scandalize His little ones: “…it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” (Mt 18:6)

As to the attitude that this is the society we live in so we might as well get used to it: what about our Lord’s command that we are to be salt for the earth! He said that if salt looses its ability to be different from that to which it is applied, it is good for nothing and ought to be trampled under foot. We have the world’s only Good News. What a tragedy to water it down!

As for listening to everything that comes from Rome bringing us to the Dark Ages, the Catholic Church was the only ray of light during the Dark Ages. It alone preserved the culture. And it alone is the ray of light today! But one would hardly know this to look at some parishes and chancery offices.

Thank God for the laity. In so many places today as in the past, it is they who are leading the clergy in fidelity to the Magisterium.

As the dramatization on EWTN says, “It’s our Catholic faith. Let’s live it!”

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
* see here.
*

 

[contemplative]

i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/IMG_4275.jpg
I wish to invoke the protection of the Holy Family of Nazareth.
Through God’s mysterious design, it was in that family that the Son of God spent long years of a hidden life.
It is therefore the prototype and example for all Christian families.
It was unique in the world.
Its life was passed in anonymity and silence in a little town in Palestine.
It underwent trials of poverty, persecution and exile.
It glorified God in an incomparably exalted and pure way.
And it will not fail to help Christian families –
indeed, all the families in the world –
to be faithful to their day-to-day duties,
to bear the cares and tribulations of life,
to be open and generous to the needs of others,
and to fulfill with joy the plan of God in their regard.

Saint Joseph was “a just man,”
a tireless worker,
the upright guardian of those entrusted to his care.
May he always guard, protect and enlighten families.
May the Virgin Mary, who is the Mother of the Church,
also be the Mother of “the Church of the home”.
Thanks to her motherly aid,
may each family really become a “little Church”
in which the mystery of the Church of Christ
is mirrored and given new life.
May she, the Handmaid of the Lord,
be an example of humble and generous acceptance of the will of God.
May she, the Sorrowful Mother at the foot of the Cross,
comfort the sufferings and dry the tears of those in distress
because of the difficulties in their families.

May Christ the Lord, the Universal King, the King of Families,
be present in every Christian home as He was at Cana,
bestowing light, joy, serenity and strength.
On the solemn day dedicated to His Kingship
I beg of Him that every family may generously make its own contribution
to the coming of His Kingdom in the world –
“a kingdom of truth and life;
a kingdom of holiness and grace,
a kingdom of justice, love and peace,
towards which history is journeying”.
I entrust each family to Him, to Mary, and to Joseph.
To their hands and their hearts I offer this Exhortation:
May it be they who present it to you,
venerable Brothers and beloved sons and daughters,
and may it be they who open your hearts to the light that the Gospel sheds on every family.
I assure you all of my constant prayers and I cordially impart
the apostolic blessing to each and every one of you,
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Joannes Paulus PP.II​

November 22, 1981
– from Familiaris Consortio,
Apostolic Exhortation on the
Role of the Christian Family in the Modern World

 

[Katie1723]

contemplative:

Your signature speaks for you. Ugghhh! What do you know about Starbucks. How can I begin to deal with a person named Katie who quotes this and advertises for Starbucks? Ugghh
Why should any orthodox Catholic listen to you…good grief…you need prayers.

Starbucks promotes homosexual agenda with coffee cup

Oftentimes when a person raises as big a fuss as you have , it is because they too are dealing with the very selfsame issues being discussed. Contemplative, sir…maam…I believe your village is calling.
~ Kathy ~

 

[contemplative]

Katie1723:

Oftentimes when a person raises as big a fuss as you have , it is because they too are dealing with the very selfsame issues being discussed. Contemplative, sir…maam…I believe your village is calling.
~ Kathy ~

Your insinuations are off base and so is your advertisement in your signature for starbucks.

Starbucks promotes homosexual agenda with coffee cup

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

:tiphat: I’m sensing some tension. Everybody take a breath and recall that we can disagree and debate without mudslinging. If we get too mean, this thread will be ended and then no one will get to share their views. Do I have to turn this message board around and drive back home?

I highly doubt anyone in this discussion is trying to sabotage the will of God. Be we Catholic, other Christian denomination, or whatever else, all we want is to seek the way in which it is best to live up to God’s desire for us.

God shows love to all His children. Let’s try to do the same for each other!

Sorry to interrupt with a sappy moment, but I thought this was an appropriate place for one. Carry on.

 

[Robert_Bay]

I agree with Maria. Please also review the forum rules, which say that posts should be polite and courteous.

I have deleted the offending posts.

If this continues the thread will be closed.

 

[Libero]

In the real world kids want to play with each other at each other’s house.

If youre that concerned about your child not coming near two homosexual parents, then you would not let them play at the house of a child who has homosexual parents.

Please see the sites for NARTH, the Catholic Medical Association and the CCC. SSA requires medical intervention. Only in recent years would anyone think differently. It is called desensitization and it happens when we take our cues from the culture instead of the Church.

I have seen these sites before, they do not offer any conclusive cure, as there is none. Some such sites are rather vague in saying what can be done to help people with SSA.

What???

Relitavely simple, I would teach my children not to go discussing other peoples business in class with the teacher, particularly a topic like homosexual parents.

 

[Katie1723]

I think we all (myself included) have “skeletons” of one sort or another in our closets.

So unless we have grown up on another planet, the self righteous among us, need to take a deep breath, step back and relax.

We sound like a bunch of kids on the playground and if you don’t stop it I am going to tell your mothers.
~ Kathy ~

 

[fix]

Libero:

If youre that concerned about your child not coming near two homosexual parents, then you would not let them play at the house of a child who has homosexual parents.

The issue is that children play and interact at school. Certainly, at some point questions will be raised and there is the fact that tacit approval and normalization of abnormal conduct may occur. With all the negative influences innocent children have to deal with I think it absurd to knowingly introduce this aberration because two misguided men have children in their care.

As I have stated before the real issue here is that same sex persons should not be adopting children in the first place.

I have seen these sites before, they do not offer any conclusive cure, as there is none. Some such sites are rather vague in saying what can be done to help people with SSA.

It is not possible to cure every disorder. What is possible is that therapy may help to some degree and God gives each of us the grace to endure and lead holy lives if we choose to.

Relitavely simple, I would teach my children not to go discussing other peoples business in class with the teacher, particularly a topic like homosexual parents.

It is not that simplistic.

 

[felra]

If youre that concerned about your child not coming near two homosexual parents, then you would not let them play at the house of a child who has homosexual parents.

Absolutely not! (you can always get a fair estimate of someone who does have children of their own).

I have seen these sites before, they do not offer any conclusive cure, as there is none. Some such sites are rather vague in saying what can be done to help people with SSA.

It is called reparative (repair) or re-orientation therapy. These therapies are only for those who recognize their SSA as a disorder and a willingness to repair/re-orient a disorded sexual desire. Here is an example of but one study that demonstrates the efficacy of reorientation therapy.
narth.com/docs/evidencefound.html

Here are some conclusive personal testimonies of those who have successfully worked through the disorder of SSA to live well adjusted, heterosexual lives.
narth.com/menus/interviews.html

Relitavely simple, I would teach my children not to go discussing other peoples business in class with the teacher, particularly a topic like homosexual parents.

Yes, lets teach our children put their heads in the sand and accommodate and pussyfoot around what is a sinful and disordered lifestyle. Have you thought about what kind of message are you sending to these children? How does this help teach our children to develop a Catholic backbone to give testimony to the truth?

 

[Libero]

As I have stated before the real issue here is that same sex persons should not be adopting children in the first place.

I do not think that homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children, I know very little about the situation, but I feel that children need a mother. However that is not the issue, the real issue here is that innocent children should not be punished for their parents actions. Let alone that this would be happening at a catholic school, what message is that sending out about catholicism? That people will be punished for the actions of someone they are associated.

It is not possible to cure every disorder. What is possible is that therapy may help to some degree and God gives each of us the grace to endure and lead holy lives if we choose to.

Yes, okay so there are sometimes people who overcome SSA, but this does not have much to do with catholic schools denying innocent children the oppertunity of a good education. That what many people here think, as the poll shows.

Yes, lets teach our children put their heads in the sand and accommodate and pussyfoot around what is a sinful and disordered lifestyle. Have you thought about what kind of message are you sending to these children? How does this help teach our children to develop a Catholic backbone to give testimony to the truth?

There is a fine difference between teaching the truth and messing around in business that you do not belong in. This aside, why on earth would children (particularly children of the age at which you think you have to protect from any signs of homosexuality) be teaching the truth about very complex ideas of catholicism. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather let our clergy members teach about the catholic stance to SSA, and let our children be normal children.

Here are some conclusive personal testimonies of those who have successfully worked through the disorder of SSA to live well adjusted, heterosexual lives.
narth.com/menus/interviews.html

As to these testimonials. Most of them are interviews with people on the topic, some say they have left the homosexual lifestyle, very few say they are ‘cured’. I dont think many people there can say they are truly cured, can live normal heterosexual lifestyles, and have put everything that they were behind them.

 

[fix]

Libero:

I do not think that homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children, I know very little about the situation, but I feel that children need a mother. However that is not the issue, the real issue here is that innocent children should not be punished for their parents actions. Let alone that this would be happening at a catholic school, what message is that sending out about catholicism? That people will be punished for the actions of someone they are associated.

It is not a punishment. The true punishment is that these poor kids will be influenced and raised by two men with deep problems. The kids are pawns. They should be taken away from this entire environment and placed with proper , loving parents.

We must also look at the other children and how they will be affected. Is allowing in all children of parents who openly defy Church teaching sending a good example? Many posters continue to downplay the sin of scandal and I think that is because we have come to think acceptance of everything, including manifest sin, is Christian.

 

[Libero]

It is not a punishment. The true punishment is that these poor kids will be influenced and raised by two men with deep problems. The kids are pawns. They should be taken away from this entire environment and placed with proper , loving parents.

This may not necesserily true, you are stereotyping here. Whats worse two homosexual parents who love their child, would do anything to protect them, and ensures that they have all they need to fully develop into a normal person; or a heterosexual couple who beat their children, binge drink, openly have numerous sexual partners, and could not care less for their children? Just because a child has homosexual parents does not mean that they will come to agree with the idea of homosexuality. If it is not a punishment, then what is it? An example of life being unfair, or perhaps unjust discrimination?

We must also look at the other children and how they will be affected. Is allowing in all children of parents who openly defy Church teaching sending a good example? Many posters continue to downplay the sin of scandal and I think that is because we have come to think acceptance of everything, including manifest sin, is Christian.

I think that the effect that it has on children is being overly emphasised. It really wont effect children that much, particularly if their parent is doing a good enough job. Nobody is downplaying the sin of scandal, they are simply not choosing to focus the conversation on it, as it has no definite connection to their children.

 

[iserve]

A child does not have what it takes to know what is good and what is evil, this is why we spend a great deal of time and energy on educating children and indoctrinating them to the faith. It is hard to imagine the confusion of a child who is learning that homosexual behavior is bad if “my friend has two daddies or mommies and everything seems ok with their family. After all, everyone, even the Church accepts them,so what’s the big deal?”

The big deal is that this acceptance is a lie. We know what these folks are doing is wrong, and that by having children living with them in these sham marriages, they are corrupting the minds of their children. By default, their behavior is corrupting all children, because exposure to their lifestyle is detrimental to society and contrary to the laws of God and nature. Why would any prudent parent want to invite this insidious kind of rationale into the formative life of their children? Can the child see the danger? No! Can the child understand how the souls of these people and their children would be affected? No!

I remember an incident when one of my children was invited to join her friend in an evangelical Youth Group, and I said “no”. When the other parent questioned me, I said that her faith formation was my job, and I didn’t feel that she was equipped to understand the subtleties of the differences between Catholic and non-Catholic faiths. When she becomes an adult, she will be free to choose, but while she is learning, it is up to me to choose.

I would remove my child from this school if they can’t see the reasons for not adhering to Catholic precepts. Even Jesus advised His followers to “shake the dust of (those who will not listen) from your sandals”.