Admitting children of same-sex couples to Catholic elementary schools

[Libero]

Parents play a significant role in children’s lives. School, particularly a Catholic school, is not just a mundane activity with little interaction.

In my experience, children do not spend all of their school day talking to each other about their parents, I dont remember doing so at all, secondly, if the children do have to resort to talking about their parents, then what is the school doing?

What is disrespectful about standards? What is intolerant about requiring parents to abide by Catholic teaching to be part of a school?

Well in that case, i suppose that all parents who have ever used contraception arent allowed to send their children there, all parents who dont attend a weekly mass can’t, any parents who have ever used the lord’s name in vain also arent allowed.

It would be better to live the Gospel and obey the mind of the Church. That may require accepting the hard teachings.

It is all very well saying this, but those people who live in the 21st century have realised that it is the extreme minority now adays that believe and practice all of the church’s teachings. If only those people were accepted into catholic schools, then there would be a mass close down of the catholic schools.

Fact or opinion? The folks in CA case enrolled their children for a reason. Why would two “gay” men want their children in a school that would teach that their lifesyle is a grave sin? How is that good for the children involved?

Not many schools teach that at a level where the child could be harmed say 4 - 10 years old, they start at 13 years. Teachings on homosexuality would not affect them.

Your signature speaks for you. Ugghhh! What do you know about Starbucks. How can I begin to deal with a person named Katie who quotes this and advertises for Starbucks? Ugghh
Why should any orthodox Catholic listen to you…good grief…you need prayers.

This comment is completely unfair and out of order. You make the person you are conversing seem as though they are inferior to you, is this a bid to get out of the debate, after your argument has failed?

 

[fix]

Libero:

In my experience, children do not spend all of their school day talking to each other about their parents, I dont remember doing so at all, secondly, if the children do have to resort to talking about their parents, then what is the school doing?

The parents are involved in activities at the school, both during and after. Children are not stupid and they can see that two men are acting as if they are like their own mother and father. This is confusing as well as publicly giving an example that is contray to the natural moral law. Would it be acceptable to have parents who publicly endorse the KKK or Nazism and claim they just want their kids to have a good education like everyone else? They may even wear their uniforms to school, just like a police officer might or a nurse. That is not a good example and neither are two men wearing wedding rings, holding hands or acting as if they are married.

Well in that case, i suppose that all parents who have ever used contraception arent allowed to send their children there, all parents who dont attend a weekly mass can’t, any parents who have ever used the lord’s name in vain also arent allowed.

This charge has been asked and answered multiple times. Let me see if I can break it down for you. It is not about private sins that no one else can see, yet still hurt the mystical body of Christ. It is about public sin that gives scandal. Scandal is something that is grave and may lead another off the road to salvation. It is serious. Contraception may be a mortal sin, but it is not usually known to kids in their formative years the way pretend parents are seen, known and discussed.

It is all very well saying this, but those people who live in the 21st century have realised that it is the extreme minority now adays that believe and practice all of the church’s teachings. If only those people were accepted into catholic schools, then there would be a mass close down of the catholic schools.

Huh? Is it a numbers game? Did Christ say go and preach the good news to all or did He say go and compromise and do the easy stuff so we can claim we are enlightened by our neo pagan culture?

Not many schools teach that at a level where the child could be harmed say 4 - 10 years old, they start at 13 years. Teachings on homosexuality would not affect them.

It does not have to be a frank discussion about homosexuality to make kids ask questions about same sex couples.

 

[felra]

Libero:

It is all very well saying this, but those people who live in the 21st century have realised that it is the extreme minority now adays that believe and practice all of the church’s teachings. If only those people were accepted into catholic schools, then there would be a mass close down of the catholic schools.

It is called the remnant faithful who have not forsaken the faith and bowed the knee before other gods in a pattern of disobedience. Jesus and the apostles had some very stern words of warning to those who live the faith in a compromise or half-hearted fashion (and those who would affirm others in their sinful, lukewarm ways).

 

[wcknight]

As I said before, its great that we have these perfect Catholics running the show. I’m sure our kids will all be secure with these saintly folks giving them perfect examples to lead their lives.We should all be so Christ-like !!!

 

[fix]

wcknight:

As I said before, its great that we have these perfect Catholics running the show. I’m sure our kids will all be secure with these saintly folks giving them perfect examples to lead their lives.We should all be so Christ-like !!!

I am really curious. How is it you have decided that some folks think of themselves as perfect when all they ask for is that Catholic schools be true to their identity and be conscious of the immortal souls in their care?

Is it really that extreme to think a Catholic school may impose certain basic standards? How have we come to the point when our culture considers forbiding enrollment of a child/children from two people who should not even have children in their care in the first place to be unjust discrimination.

This all could be avoided if we all protested the unjust laws in this country that allow children to be adopted by “gay” parents. That is a big part of the etiology of the problem.

The children are pawns and a Catholic school should not be part of the agenda.

 

[felra]

wcknight:

As I said before, its great that we have these perfect Catholics running the show. I’m sure our kids will all be secure with these saintly folks giving them perfect examples to lead their lives.We should all be so Christ-like !!!

Before throwing indiscrimate dirt ball characterizations, please cite where anyone has made less than a Christ-like assertion. Otherwise, readers can very well suspect that you have run out of ideas and have been arguing an untenable position.

 

[harinkj]

Libero:

Here I would disagree, I think we hear enough about it, and virtually everyone knows the catholic stance on homosexuality, people know that the church is very anti homosexual. Since I joined this forum I have noticed that the topic of homosexuality is always being talked about, in numerous threads. It’s like some bizaree defiance to homosexuality, as if the people here will not accept that it is a part of our society today. Perhaps the church should consider preaching the more important catholic beliefs. The importance of the belief on homosexuality in catholicism is being greatly overplayed.

The pathological interest in homosexuality by so many posters on so many threads really makes me wonder. Sex should not be preached from the pulpit. Parents should teach correct morals and questions should be raised with one’s confeesor in private.

• kathie :bowdown:

 

[felra]

The pathological interest in homosexuality by so many posters on so many threads really makes me wonder.

What constitutes *pathological interest? *

Sex should not be preached from the pulpit.

How about morality?

Parents should teach correct morals and questions should be raised with one’s confeesor in private.

Yes, let’s keep faith and morals under the cover of “private”.

 

[wcknight]

felra:

Before throwing indiscrimate dirt ball characterizations, please cite where anyone has made less than a Christ-like assertion. Otherwise, readers can very well suspect that you have run out of ideas and have been arguing an untenable position.

You folks have all decided beforehand the guilt of all SSA folks. You lump them into one broad category and have been judge, jury, and executioner. It’s really sad and endemic of every other form of bigotry that has preceeded it. It’s a crying shame that no one ever learns from the evils that have plagued mankind from prior generations.

Just pigeon hole everyone and eveyone is guily by association. You are not SSA so, it is fine to throw the whole lot of them out. It is the same self rightegeous, self serving stufff that every majority opinion heaps on a minority.

It is so much easier to just isolate yourself from problems so you don’t have to deal with them. Keep my kids from the gays, from the blacks and from the Hispanics, so my precicous lillte darlings don’t have to be corrupted by them, they don’t have to see them , and they don’t exists. It just makes me want to gag!!!

 

[fix]

The pathological interest in homosexuality by so many posters on so many threads really makes me wonder. Sex should not be preached from the pulpit. Parents should teach correct morals and questions should be raised with one’s confeesor in private.

• kathie :bowdown:
  [/quote]

The pathological interest in foisting the homosexual agenda on society is the authentic pathology. And yes, sexual morality should preached from the pulpits often.

In fact, one of the reasons so much deviant behavior is accepted today is because for too long our clergy have failed to preach on these issues and the culture is winning the battle.

 

[Libero]

This charge has been asked and answered multiple times. Let me see if I can break it down for you. It is not about private sins that no one else can see, yet still hurt the mystical body of Christ. It is about public sin that gives scandal. Scandal is something that is grave and may lead another off the road to salvation. It is serious. Contraception may be a mortal sin, but it is not usually known to kids in their formative years the way pretend parents are seen, known and discussed.

Well what would we do if one parent were to use the lord’s name in vain, whilst waiting to pick up their child or being at a school event. And as for leading others off the road to salvation, what? This is some strange dillusion. “oh no I have seen a homosexual couple. Help Help I am aquiring SSA I cant stop it, curse that couple”. Yes, that sounds like a scenario that would happen to a child after seeing two homosexual people.

Huh? Is it a numbers game? Did Christ say go and preach the good news to all or did He say go and compromise and do the easy stuff so we can claim we are enlightened by our neo pagan culture?

No he did not say this, I am stating that many chrisitans have seen their belief torn apart, some have managed to adapt to the 21st century and recognise that there is a new society, in which new things are acceptable, for example homosexuals not being condemened or having to keep a strong secret and lie about who they are.

It does not have to be a frank discussion about homosexuality to make kids ask questions about same sex couples.

Please, tell me, what detailed discussion would a 4 or 5 year old be having with their teacher, in which the topic of homosexual marriage would come up. I am concerned for the catholic school where this occurrs.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

You folks have all decided beforehand the guilt of all SSA folks.

Let us be clear. If two self professed “gay” men adopt children and try to enroll them in a Catholic school claiming they are both authentic parents to such children, how is one “judging” them? One would be observing their actions and words and drawing the appropriate conclusion.

You lump them into one broad category and have been judge, jury, and executioner. It’s really sad and endemic of every other form of bigotry that has preceeded it. It’s a crying shame that no one ever learns from the evils that have plagued mankind from prior generations.

This defies logic. “Gay” men living as faux parents have no right to adopt children. In fact, such things need to be opposed. That is not unjust discrimination, but justice toward innocent children.

Just pigeon hole everyone and eveyone is guily by association. You are not SSA so, it is fine to throw the whole lot of them out. It is the same self rightegeous, self serving stufff that every majority opinion heaps on a minority.

What does this mean? We are to eliminate the moral law so as not to offend anyone?

It is so much easier to just isolate yourself from problems so you don’t have to deal with them. Keep my kids from the gays, from the blacks and from the Hispanics, so my precicous lillte darlings don’t have to be corrupted by them, they don’t have to see them , and they don’t exists. It just makes me want to gag!!!

Why do you equate “gays” with African Americans and Hispanics?

 

[fix]

Libero:

Well what would we do if one parent were to use the lord’s name in vain, whilst waiting to pick up their child or being at a school event. And as for leading others off the road to salvation, what? This is some strange dillusion. “oh no I have seen a homosexual couple. Help Help I am aquiring SSA I cant stop it, curse that couple”. Yes, that sounds like a scenario that would happen to a child after seeing two homosexual people.

Again, you seem to miss the point. One person suddenly taking the Lord’s name in vain is not scandalous, particularly if that person apologizes for their behavior. How is that equal to two people living in public sin, saying it is not sinful and acting as if their behavior is holy and just for all to see and for young minds to be corrupted?

No he did not say this, I am stating that many chrisitans have seen their belief torn apart, some have managed to adapt to the 21st century and recognise that there is a new society, in which new things are acceptable, for example homosexuals not being condemened or having to keep a strong secret and lie about who they are.

What? Homosexual activity is a sin and often a mental disorder. That few want to hide it now in no way is enlightenment, but a symptom of a greater cultural problem. These folks need medical and spiritual help. They do not need to think they should act out on it and claim minority status.

Please, tell me, what detailed discussion would a 4 or 5 year old be having with their teacher, in which the topic of homosexual marriage would come up. I am concerned for the catholic school where this occurrs.

If you read my post I said a detailed discussion does not need to take place for young minds to ask questions about Johnny’s two daddies.

 

[felra]

Well what would we do if one parent were to use the lord’s name in vain, whilst waiting to pick up their child or being at a school event. And as for leading others off the road to salvation, what? This is some strange dillusion. “oh no I have seen a homosexual couple. Help Help I am aquiring SSA I cant stop it, curse that couple”. Yes, that sounds like a scenario that would happen to a child after seeing two homosexual people.

We are talking about protecting and preserving the integrity of our Catholic institutions and the ability to inculcate out children with right values and a Catholic worldview.

No he did not say this, I am stating that many chrisitans have seen their belief torn apart, some have managed to adapt to the 21st century and recognise that there is a new society, in which new things are acceptable

, for example homosexuals not being condemened or having to keep a strong secret and lie about who they are.
Let’s decode this: manage to adapt = acceptance of an immoral lifestyle.

Please, tell me, what detailed discussion would a 4 or 5 year old be having with their teacher, in which the topic of homosexual marriage would come up. I am concerned for the catholic school where this occurrs.

“Gee Mommy, Suzzy told me today at school that she has two Mommies at home. I told her that God gave each one us a Mommy and a Daddy only? Who is right?”

 

[wcknight]

fix:

Let us be clear. If two self professed “gay” men adopt children and try to enroll them in a Catholic school claiming they are both authentic parents to such children, how is one “judging” them? One would be observing their actions and words and drawing the appropriate conclusion.

This defies logic. “Gay” men living as faux parents have no right to adopt children. In fact, such things need to be opposed. That is not unjust discrimination, but justice toward innocent children.

What does this mean? We are to eliminate the moral law so as not to offend anyone?

Why do you equate “gays” with African Americans and Hispanics?

Your very reply exhibits the biases I am referring to. You have automatically assumed that all gay parents are unfit parents. You automatically assume that all gays will lie about passing themselves off as the ‘real parents’.

I only equate gays with other minorities because they are being treated similarly. The same assumptions made about other minorities are being made against them. The same sterotyping, the same biases etc. Anytime you take a generalization about a group of folks and apply it to every individual in that group (such as white, blacks, gays, etc) you will be inherently wrong.

Even if most gays are living in serious sin that does NOT mean that ALL gays are guilty. Even if only one gay is not in serious sin you are wrong. That is basic logic.

The reason why bigotry and discrimination is wrong is precisely because folks make such generalizations and assign them to all individuals in a group.

I don’t oppose you because I think homosexuals are right. I oppose you because I know bigotry is wrong.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

Your very reply exhibits the biases I am referring to. You have automatically assumed that all gay parents are unfit parents. You automatically assume that all gays will lie about passing themselves off as the ‘real parents’.

Two same sex individuals are unfit to be parents. That is known from the Vatican instruction, from the natural moral law and from right reason. Children have a right to a mother and a father. To have only two men or two women is to do moral violence to the children.

I only equate gays with other minorities because they are being treated similarly. The same assumptions made about other minorities are being made against them. The same sterotyping, the same biases etc. Anytime you take a generalization about a group of folks and apply it to every individual in that group (such as white, blacks, gays, etc) you will be inherently wrong.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Two “gays” as you put it are living a disordered life. If there were chaste folks striving to lead holy lives they would not call themselves “gay”. The term “gay” carries much political weight. Ethnic minorities in no way are similiar to people choosing to act on on a disordered inclination. Again, if they are not acting out on it they would not be publicly holding themselves out as homosexual.

Even if most gays are living in serious sin that does NOT mean that ALL gays are guilty. Even if only one gay is not in serious sin you are wrong. That is basic logic.

Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other? Those who self identify as “gay” are living that life. Those striving to live chaste lives probably would be unknown to us.

The reason why bigotry and discrimination is wrong is precisely because folks make such generalizations and assign them to all individuals in a group.

Again, perhaps there is a misunderstanding. Those who suffer from SSA and are struggling to live according to the law would not be adopting children with another man. Because they would know that is wrong.

I don’t oppose you because I think homosexuals are right. I oppose you because I know bigotry is wrong.

In all charity, perhaps you should define what bigotry actually is and how it has any application to these posts.

 

[Elizabeth2]

You cannot penalize the children for the sins of the parents. By going to a Catholic School, if it is a good one, this may be the only opportunity these children have to learn good Christian Values. At least by wanting their children to go to a Catholic School these parents are showing that they want something good for their children. Jesus said “Let the little children come to me.” I’m astonished that this question is even up for debate.

 

[system]

Libero:

It’s like some bizaree defiance to homosexuality, as if the people here will not accept that it is a part of our society today.

Actually, homosexuality is a defiance against God. This has no part in any society. We do not hate homosexuals, we hate homosexuality. It is the destruction of every great society. It is always the sign that the society is corrupt. Personally, I don’t see why I need to see it when I turn on the TV or walk down the street. The problem is, that it is a part of our society, we need to pray and educate people that God says this is wrong. We need to work together to try to let people know this is a very evil act. Not that the people are evil.

 

[fix]

Elizabeth2:

You cannot penalize the children for the sins of the parents. By going to a Catholic School, if it is a good one, this may be the only opportunity these children have to learn good Christian Values. At least by wanting their children to go to a Catholic School these parents are showing that they want something good for their children. Jesus said “Let the little children come to me.” I’m astonished that this question is even up for debate.

Actually, I think they want their children in the school for the exact opposite reason. They have an agenda. They want to make a point. Not to mention all the other children and their parents have rights and obligations that need to be addressed as well.

As for the bible quote, that in no way justifies scandal or leading others into sin which is also stated in the New Testament.

I can’t believe that anyone would debate allowing such a thing to happen at a so-called Catholic school.

 

[contemplative]

Elizabeth2:

Jesus said “Let the little children come to me.” I’m astonished that this question is even up for debate.

I can’t believe you read the rest of the thread before posting this…

This was posted earlier. Your interpretation is incorrect. Also, please read threads before posting.

Childishness or the Spirit of Childhood?

Jesus says: ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God.’ [Luke 18:16]

If that is how things are, growing up means loss. Why should I desire to grow up if adulthood deprives me of the right to the kingdom? Can you explain why God should have given us physical development which favours vice, not virtue? And for what reason did the Lord not turn to children but to grown men when he was choosing his Apostles? In brief, why does he say that children are fit to enter the kingdom?

Someone will suggest this reason: because children do not bear malice, they do not know how to swindle their neighbour, they are not vindictive, they do not desire wealth, they do not covet honours.

Maybe: but virtue is not founded on ignorance. Still less is self-control praiseworthy if it is only due to impotence.

Therefore the Lord is not offering us childhood as our example but the goodness that imitates the simplicity of childhood. He does not put before us inability to sin - which would not be virtue - but the will not to sin, a steady will not to sin, for which we ought to take childhood as our model.

For the rest, the Lord himself says: ‘Unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.’ [Matt. 18:3]

Ambrose *On the Gospel of St Luke, *8