Admitting children of same-sex couples to Catholic elementary schools

[harinkj]

contemplative:

The gay agenda today has so many people today scared and frightened to even have a head up about how evil homosexuality really is.
This weekend I was a fine restaurant and happened to notice how absolutely out of place my waiter was compared to the rest of the male and female wait service. My waiter had one ring for every finger on his left hand…no exageration…he also sported two ear rings in one ear and he had a swish and a sway to his walk that would put any hoola dancer to shame. I couldn’t understand why this guy was allowed to dress this way in this restaraunt while the other male and female table servers were dressed prudently for this conservative establishment. I would have fired the guy myself if I had half a chance. My point is that the homosexual agenda is intimidating people in big ways and small to gain acceptance. I am not intimidated and neither should you. You don’t need to side with the homosexual agenda.

Gossip!! I lived the artsy part of a large city once and there were a lot of men dressed strangely. They were’t all gay by any means.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[contemplative]

harinkj:

Gossip!! I lived the artsy part of a large city once and there were a lot of men dressed strangely. They were’t all gay by any means.

• Kathie :bowdown:

Get Real! and stay on topic. You folks in favor of the gay agenda keep avoiding the real arguements.

 

[contemplative]

harinkj:

Gossip!! I lived the artsy part of a large city once and there were a lot of men dressed strangely. They were’t all gay by any means.

• Kathie :bowdown:

Considering the waiter referenced his male partner in conversation I would say is good indication that the swish and sway and jewelry fit the bill. That wasn’t my point. The fact is that he looked like the odd man out in a conservative establishment. I am not afraid to say so. Some people are. :ehh:

 

[GloriaPatri4]

Funny how we never hear about Bad example or scandal anymore. In many parishes in my diocese the mantra is Tolerance, Diversity and Acceptance Lets say it together: Tolerance, Diversity, Acceptance, Oh My!

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Please, can anyone on this thread tell me how a school can prevent Bad example and scandal when a homosexual couple presents themselves as a couple at a Catholic school?

I’ve already seen first hand what happens when a pastor at a parish requests of a homosexual couple not to present themselves as a couple, threats of lawsuits, mob mentality (violence), newspapers , news reporters, your church and school’s situation on every news channel.

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Bad example and scandal are sins against the soul included in the Fifth Commandment.

From “My Catholic Faith” by Most Reverend Louis Laravoire Morrow (C) 1963:

What is BAD EXAMPLE?

Bad example is doing wrong in the presence of others.

1. Bad example is the principal occasion of scandal, which is occasioning the sin of another by any word or deed having at least the appearance of evil. ***If ***any help or encouragement is given in any way to cause another to do wrong, scandal is committed or given.

Bad example and scandal are sins against the soul included in the Fifth Commandment. They injure our neighbor’s soul, and so are worse evils than injuring his body. They do the devil’s work and draw souls into hell. If by deliberate scandal and bad example we cause another to commit a grave sin, we are worse than murderers. St. Augustine said, If you persuade your neighbor to sin, you are his murderer."

1. Our Lord condemned scandal in no uncertain terms, saying: ***“Woe to the man through whom scandal does come! ***And if thy hand or thy foot is an occasion of sin to thee, cut it off and cast it from thee! It is better for thee to enter life maimed or lame, than, having two hands or two feet, ***to be cast into the everlasting fire” ***(Matt. 18:7-8).

Grievous indeed must scandal be, to make our gentle Lord use such stroung words of condemnation. "The Son of man will send forth*** his angels***, and they will gather out of his kingdom all scandals and those who work iniquity, and cast them into the furnace of fire" (Matt. 13:41-42).

1. Some ways*** of giving bad example or scandal are:*** by indecent talk, by selling or circulating bad books or pictures, by singing improper songs, by dressing immodestly, by appearing in public in a state of drunkenness, by profanity and cursing, by doing servile work publicly on Sunday, by behaving indecorously in church, by ridiculing religion and priests, by writing against religion, by publicly violating one of the commandments of God or the Church, etc.

We should be very careful in our actions, however innocent, so that they may not be the cause of scandal to others. “And if thy eye is an occasion of sin to thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee! It is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into the hell of fire” (Matt. 18:9).

1. By committing scandalous acts a person influences others to do the same. This is specially true of children, who easily imitate their parents and elders. He who gives scandal is like a man who digs a pit into which others fall, break their necks.

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[GloriaPatri4]

continued from last post

From “My Catholic Faith” by Most Reverend Louis Laravoire Morrow (C) 1963:

1. By committing scandalous acts a person influences others to do the same. This is specially true of children, who easily imitate their parents and elders. He who gives scandal is like a man who digs a pit into which others fall, break their necks.

From "My Catholic Faith"

WHAT MUST WE DO if we have been the occasion of scandal or bad example?

If we have been the occasion of scandal or bad example, we are bound to repair the mischief done.

A public scandal must be repaired in a public manner. Even then we usually cannot begin to repair the greater part of the evil we have caused.

We must try our best to save those we have scandalized from the effects of our example. We must perform the contrary virtue, incite them by good example, and pray for them. We ought to be more careful about giving scandal, because of the difficulty, nay, almost the impossibility, of repairing the effects of scandal.

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[harinkj]

It is interesting to go back and read the posts in this thread. Sadly, those who want to demonize the gay people resort to hate and ad hominem attacks on other posters. If these people would condemn all mortal sins with the same fanaticism their position would be more understandable.

There are many facets to the gay and lesbian issues. Pigeonholing issues and people is nonsense. Punishing their children is hideous. The cloak of religion does not permit people to engage in hate.

There is no gay agenda. There are probably as many gay agendas as there are Christian agendas.

If the state wants to marry same gender people that is fine with me. I would be very much against the state forcing the Catholic Church to marry same gender people.

There are dangers in the world, but if you blind your eyes and cease thinking you will be in very deep trouble. For example, there are clean cut looking men out there who drive sports cars and attract many young gals. These guys also go to the gay bars on some evenings. You do not need an MD to figure out what a danger these guys are to young unsuspecting women. I have personally seen this going on in places that I have lived. If some two guys live down the street and have an adopted child, they are sure a lot less of a threat than these other guys who are leading a double life.

I found that the best way to bring up my daughter was to do what my mother did with me and my sisters. Number 1, don’t park them in a kiddie kennel every day so I could have a big career. Number 2, teach them how to think for themselves. Number 3, lead an exemplary life for them to model. :clapping:

Children raised like that will do quite fine, even if their classmate has 2 moms. Two mons at home is better than one at home who sleeps around, but that is my opinion.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[Libero]

Your reasoning is twisted. First of all, I am not afraid to communicate to my children. Don’t mistake discernment and protection for my child with fear ( yours is just another negative word of accusation).

Okay, I in now way wanted to accuse anyone here of anything, the post was not directed at anyone in particular, just at the general audiance, i put forward my initial opinion, I meant not cause any offence or to anger anyone.

Secondly, if I had children, and the issue of two same sex parents children came up, then I would try my best to explain the situation, without opening any more doors to different questions, I think I would brush on the fact that the two people love each other and decided to adopt a child. I would say they were in a different situation to us, and then the topic would be closed, and I would let the child know this.

There is no gay agenda. There are probably as many gay agendas as there are Christian agendas.

Here I would also agree, nobody is personally trying to force you to accept anything.

and happened to notice how absolutely out of place my waiter was compared to the rest of the male and female wait service.

As for talk of the clothing of homosexuals, who cares? Does it affect you that much? Do you think that homosexuals are dressing differently to draw attention and to try and make you accept what they are? In that case, would you not agree that a bishop or cardinal wearing cassocks and cloaks in public is trying to draw attention, when other bishops simply wear shirt and trousers.

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

I’m thinking about the child here, not the gay couple. If you kick the kid out, how is that goingto help them in life? It’s condemning them to a life of sin practically. I can’t see the child wanting to become Catholic when he/she grows up because her only knowledge of the faith will probably be that he/she wasn’t allowed to go to a Catholic church because his/her parents were gay.

If you keep the child away from the good influences, how will they get them as they’re clearly not getting it from their parents?

As for getting the church a bad reputation, I agree. This kind of unaccepting kindness will get the church the same reputation Jesus had when he spent his time with prostitues, tax collecters and the lowest of the low.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

GloriaPatri4:

Please, can anyone on this thread tell me how a school can prevent Bad example and scandal when a homosexual couple presents themselves as a couple at a Catholic school?

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All I keep reading is the children of the gay couple have a right to a Catholic education and to this I agree but how does a school administration prevent a homosexual couple from being a bad example to the other students at the school?

There are other sinful lifestyles but some are more obvious than others.

Shacking up:
There are about three unmarried couples at our parish school and those are just the ones I am aware of. They don’t announce that they aren’t married, their children are oblivious to the fact that their parents aren’t married or if they are they are embarrased so they never bring it up. People assumed because they saw the same mother and father together regularly that they were married. If unmarried couples were broadcasting the fact on a Catholic school campus that they weren’t married, had no intentions of getting married or didn’t believe in marriage this would be scandalous and a bad example and should be corrected.

Contraception:
Sadly many Catholics contracept and although sinful it’s not an obvious sin. The Catholic parents who are announcing it on school campus as if there was nothing wrong with it (**example: “After this baby, we’re done, Gary’s having a vasectomy. We can’t handle one more kid.” ) **Should be corrected. I’ve heard these kinds of conversations on Catholic school campuses in front of children.

Homosexual couples:
This is an obvious sinful lifestyle if the couple is very active and visible at the school which was the case at our parish school. They came as a couple with their children to the Life Teen Mass, they were present every morning at the all school morning prayers, they came as a couple to the basketball tournaments (this was a big family social event at our parish).

When you see two men or two women wearing wedding rings and presenting themselves as a couple especially if they have quite a few children it attracts attention. In our parish school sometimes this particular couple would walk in a people chain. Now, I don’t know about most of you but this is not something that you normally see two men do.

Again, some sins are more obvious than others and before anyone start throwing accusations at me, I’m not saying the less obvious ones are less sinful than the obvious sins.

 

[system]

The only thing I can say is that we can teach the children if they come to our schools. Also, why shoudl the children be punished? What did they do? Hate the sin, Love the sinner. We should have more from the pulpit about homosexuality being a sin. Our schools should back this up 100%

 

[contemplative]

vicia3:

We should have more from the pulpit about homosexuality being a sin. Our schools should back this up 100%

BINGO
EXACTLY
RIGHT ON THE MONEY

If we did hear much more from our bishops and priests we would all need to be less defensive. Unfortunately, when it comes to this topic we hear little to nothing. Parents are left to fend for themselves. If we all heard the truth about homosexuality from our bishops and priests we would be much less concerned about gay parents roaming the halls of our schools. The bishop and priests in my diocese literally ignored
CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS
TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION
TO UNIONS
BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

The priests in my diocese disliked this Doctine of Faith so much that 35 of them signed a letter sent to Pope Jonn Paul II which described how much they hated the wording! You can find the letter here .

*Two wrongs don’t make a right. I am sticking to my conviction to prevent homosexual parents from sending their children to Catholic school. *

If a homosexual parent wants the very best for their child they should straighten out there act to get their children into Catholic schools. The problem is they don’t want to straighten up. Essentially all children are welcome into Catholic schools already. If the face of evil shows up on a Catholic school campus it needs to be dealt with swiftly and decisively.

Again…no one on this thread has managed to state clearly and exactly what they would say to their 6-8 year old about the topic of homosexuality.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

One of the things that has been brought up (might of been brought up by me can’t remember which thread) is: What happens to Catholic schools in cities that have large populations of homosexuals (San Franciso). If let’s say 90% of the demographic make up in a city is GLBT and the Catholic schools in these areas have 75% GLBT families and only 25% of heterosexual families are the children from the heterosexual families (the minority) going to be influenced by the GLBT families or are the children from the GLBT families (the majority) going to be influenced by the heterosexual families (the minority)?

Everyone has a simple answer for the here and now but no one has an answer for the problems down the line. No one has looked at the big picture, the long lasting ramifications.

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No one wants to punish innocent children but how do we prevent the trojan horse (acceptance of homosexuality) being sneaked in?

 

[Libero]

We should have more from the pulpit about homosexuality being a sin. Our schools should back this up 100%

BINGO
EXACTLY
RIGHT ON THE MONEY

Here I would disagree, I think we hear enough about it, and virtually everyone knows the catholic stance on homosexuality, people know that the church is very anti homosexual. Since I joined this forum I have noticed that the topic of homosexuality is always being talked about, in numerous threads. It’s like some bizaree defiance to homosexuality, as if the people here will not accept that it is a part of our society today. Perhaps the church should consider preaching the more important catholic beliefs. The importance of the belief on homosexuality in catholicism is being greatly overplayed.

 

[Katie1723]

So you would deny a solid Catholic education to a child because they have 2 moms or 2 dads?? How is that being a good Catholic??
~ Kathy ~

 

[wcknight]

How does the school administration go about asking same sex couples to be discrete? The former pastor of our parish repeatedly asked the same sex couple to please be discrete and when they wouldn’t comply the pastor tried to implement a policy which would force them to be discrete. This is what happened as a result of the policy.

Please click below to read thread

THE CAFETERIA IS CLOSED at St. John the Baptist School, Cost Mesa

The official Church stance on homosexuals is that they remain chaste. It does NOT say they can not live together, and it does not say they can not raise kids. Homosexual acts are condemned NOT homosexuals themselves. IF a homosexual couple adopts and lives together and adopt a child, they CAN still be living within Catholic teachings.

There are a few SSA folks posting on these very boards who are trying to live within the Church rules. That is far more acceptable than the heterosexual couples who openely cheat on their spouses. There is no rule barring divorced or unmarried single parents from having their kids entered in a school.

If you want to ban SSA couple from haiving kids in our schools then you need to ban heterosex folks in non conventional situations as well.

 

[contemplative]

So you would deny a solid Catholic education to a child because they have 2 moms or 2 dads?? How is that being a good Catholic??
~ Kathy ~

Gimmee a good cuppa Starbuck’s !

Your signature speaks for you. Ugghhh! What do you know about Starbucks. How can I begin to deal with a person named Katie who quotes this and advertises for Starbucks? Ugghh
Why should any orthodox Catholic listen to you…good grief…you need prayers.

Starbucks promotes homosexual agenda with coffee cup

 

[contemplative]

wcknight:

The official Church stance on homosexuals is that they remain chaste. It does NOT say they can not live together, and it does not say they can not raise kids. Homosexual acts are condemned NOT homosexuals themselves. IF a homosexual couple adopts and lives together and adopt a child, they CAN still be living within Catholic teachings.

There are a few SSA folks posting on these very boards who are trying to live within the Church rules. That is far more acceptable than the heterosexual couples who openely cheat on their spouses. There is no rule barring divorced or unmarried single parents from having their kids entered in a school.

If you want to ban SSA couple from haiving kids in our schools then you need to ban heterosex folks in non conventional situations as well.

OFF TOPIC
This thread is about admitting children of same-sex partners into Catholic schools. If you want to start a thread about other types of problem relationships, etc. then start a thread of your own. Also you should address arguements already addressed to you in this thread.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

The official Church stance on homosexuals is that they remain chaste. It does NOT say they can not live together, and it does not say they can not raise kids. Homosexual acts are condemned NOT homosexuals themselves. IF a homosexual couple adopts and lives together and adopt a child, they CAN still be living within Catholic teachings.

The Church has said same sex couples should never adopt children as children have a right to a father and a mother. It may be possible, in some cases, for two same sex folks to live as two brothers or two sisters as long as no scandal is given, but that still does not mean they should adopt a child.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

Having a child in school does not allow anyone to indoctrinate or lead kids into error and sin. Gays do not go about promoting their life style to kids or for that matter to other parents.

Fact or opinion? The folks in CA case enrolled their children for a reason. Why would two “gay” men want their children in a school that would teach that their lifesyle is a grave sin? How is that good for the children involved?

Gays may not be abiding by Church teaching but that is far from having an ‘anti-Christian agenda’. Certainly intollerance, and discrimination are far more anti-Christian.

Again, this is politically correct logic, not Church teaching.

And how is allowing a child into the school a secular mindset ?

Because you are putting the “parents” with the “gay” agenda ahead of the salvation of souls.

The child is not gay, and no one is saying that the parents lifestyle is okay. The vast majority of the time, the parents will not even be in the school. IF you want to limit your child’s meeting the parents, that is very easily done, just don’t send your child over to their place.

In the CA case these faux parents wanted to volunteer at school functions and show up as husband and wife.

Gays are in the world, as someone said, they have a relative that is gay. They are not out to recruit more gays. It is not contagious. IF somehow your child ends up gay, it will not be from some gay parent having a child in the same school.

There is much I could say about this statement that is so very inaccurate, but for now I will only say intentionally giving a bad example is a serious sin. Living in manifest sin and leading others to believe such actions are morally licit is very serious.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

And how are our kids influenced by another kid being allowed to go to school. Are they suddenly going to be promoting gay promiscuity throughout the school ? Not likely, and if they did, then you deal with it.

Parents play a significant role in children’s lives. School, particularly a Catholic school, is not just a mundane activity with little interaction.

And parents who cheat are not in scandalously situations ?
And again what is the likelihood of these gay parents influencing our kids ? Slim and none, chances are they will have little or no contact with our kids.

I never said only “gay” parents should be not allowed to enroll their children, other folks who give scandal are in the same position. Things like cohabitation, adulterous relationships, etc that give scandal should be taken into account.

Really…, discrimination and intollerance are authentic while mutual respect is worldly…

What is disrespectful about standards? What is intolerant about requiring parents to abide by Catholic teaching to be part of a school?

Would it not then be better to just nuke all the non-Catholics and our kids will not have to ever deal with worldly standards ever.

It would be better to live the Gospel and obey the mind of the Church. That may require accepting the hard teachings.