Admitting children of same-sex couples to Catholic elementary schools

[fix]

chevalier:

So children adopted by homosexuals are themselves part of the ideology of evil?

Is that what I said? Are Catholic schools obligated to accept every student for any reason? What about the other students? Does anything go because children are involved?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

chevalier:

So children adopted by homosexuals are themselves part of the ideology of evil?

No these particular children are in fact being used to promote the ideology of evil by the “parents” That is really sorry of them to use the children as pawns

 

[contemplative]

yes, Catholic schools are inadvertently condoning homosexual unions by admitting their children

no, Catholic schools are not condoning homosexual unions by admitting their children
*

There is nothing inadvertent about this descision. ‘Inadvertent’ is a poor word choice. The choice to allow childen of homosexual unions into a Catholic school is a ‘purposeful’ choice to uphold homosexual marriages.

 

[twiztedseraph]

Tough one. On the one hand you let them in its like saying its okay, but at the same time you might be able to provide a Christian point of view to the Child. Im Stumped…

 

[wcknight]

There is usually an interview with the parents and future students before they are admitted to a Catholic school. I don’t remember what questions are asked since it has been a long time sine our kids were beginning grade school.

It is usually more of a way to determine if the child will be ready for school as opposed to whether the parents are of upright moral character.

We have single parents, divorced parents and probably parents living in serious sins. I don’t think schools are in the business of determining the moral character of the parents upon entry (maybe they shoudl be). The usual questions are if the family are members of the parish, since parishioners get priority and in some case discounts to the tuition. IF the family needs financial aid, and maybe if the child has any special problems, health wise, behavior wise or whatever.

It has not been the policy of the schools to screen for family life styles. At least it was not 10 or 15 year ago. Background checks on parents is not a normal procedure, and I suspect the question is not usually asked unless both gay parents happen to show up for the initial interview.

The initial application form may ask for both parents names and address(es) and maybe marital status (single, married, divorced). I doubt it asks if gay or living in serious sin.

The question is, should our schools screen for such things, and should our schools exclude kids from gay parents. And if we exclude kids from gay parents should we exclude kids from divorced parents or from parents living in serious sin.

I don’t think our schools should be the filter for sorting out unfit or immoral parents. We don’t live in a sinless world, and as long as they do not promote their lifestyles, I do not see gays as a direct threat to our children. I would be far more concerned with a child molester or sociopath than I am with gay parents. I don’t agree with the way that they live, but I don’t think their kids shoud be barred from a Catholic education.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

wcknight:

The question is, should our schools screen for such things, and should our schools exclude kids from gay parents. And if we exclude kids from gay parents should we exclude kids from divorced parents or from parents living in serious sin.

When Catholic schools admit children they are not just admitting the children but the parents or caregivers of the children.

There are some sins which are more obvious than others. Would you be able to distinguish which parents are divorced and which one were not? Would you be able to tell which parents were shacking up or contracepting? Most of the people who are guilty of these sins are not advocating them. I think it’s pretty obvious when you see the same two men or two women together day after day, wearing wedding rings and both introducing themselves as the mothers or fathers of little suzie.

I don’t think our schools should be the filter for sorting out unfit or immoral parents. We don’t live in a sinless world, and as long as they do not promote their lifestyles, I do not see gays as a direct threat to our children. I would be far more concerned with a child molester or sociopath than I am with gay parents. I don’t agree with the way that they live, but I don’t think their kids shoud be barred from a Catholic education.

I agree, children should not be barred from a Catholic school simply because their parents are gay but how do prevent the other students or parents from being exposed to this particular disordered lifestyle and being influenced into thinking that it’s quite normal for two men or two women to be in a relationship and have children?

You may not agree with the way that gays live because you know that the Bible teaches it is wrong but just imagine for a moment an eighth grade boy (Tommy) in Catholic school who was raised in a heterosexual family but his best friend (David) since kindergarten has two daddies.

Let’s say this boy from the heterosexual family had been to his best friends house over the course of nine years fifty or sixty times maybe even a few sleepovers. Do you really think by the time he has spent so much time with his best friend’s family and by the way he really thinks David’s dads are just great, do you really think that Tommy is going to think that a homosexual lifestyle is WRONG?

**

I do not see gays as a direct threat to our children

**

Actively openly gay couples do have a very direct threat to our children you just may not realize it until it’s too late.

 

[wcknight]

I see the same problem with divorced parents. There were at least two kids with multiple parents while my kids were in grade school. I don’t know what the exact situations were. They may have had annulments or they may not. Folks did not ask.

At soccer or basketball games, sometimes 3 or 4 parents showed up to root johnnie or suzie on. Later on, sometimes, my kids would stay overnight with one of the kids and one set of parents. They were involved in the PTA, and in every other way were ‘normal’ parents.

As parents and within our faith teachings, we have a responsibility to teach our kids that living in sin is not acceptable, at the same time, we have to teach our kids not to pass judgement on other folks either prematurely or unjustly.

Gays are a part of society, and kids need to know that such life styles are not acceptable by the Church, and yet they must still treat folks with respect even though we do not agree with how they live.

I think we build in more prejudice and more discrimination when we choose to isolate ourselves or try to isolate our kids from the real world. Look at the world when segregation was the norm for most schools and communities.

IF we choose to discriminate against gays and kids of gays, we will be building in hatred and discrimination into the mindset of our children. We will in fact be saying to our kids that it is okay to isolate and treat gays differently. We do not want them in our schools and we do not want them in our society. That’s a horrible message to send.

 

[wcknight]

No one can prevent exposing kids or parents to different life styles. They are already there in the real world. What we can do, is educate folks that such life styles exist, and that they are not morally acceptable by the Church.

At the same time, we also have to teach our kids, that even though we do not agree with this life style, we should treat folks with respect. And rather than punish or judge folks because we don’t approve of how they live, we pray for them, and we hope they can make the life changes that Church asks of them.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

No one can prevent exposing kids or parents to different life styles. They are already there in the real world. What we can do, is educate folks that such life styles exist, and that they are not morally acceptable by the Church.

We certainly can prevent exposing ourselves and our children to different lifestyles. Some situations are unavoidable but everyone has the power to limit their exposure to sinful lifestyles. ** Can we not prevent exposing our children to drug dealers, murderers, child molesters? Wouldn’t you do everything in your power to avoid exposing your children to these people (murderers and child molesters) or would you expose them simply with the idea that these people are in society anyways and they might as well get used to it now, and oh, by the way we mustn’t judge them?**

From the Considerations Regarding…
II. POSITIONS ON THE PROBLEM
OF HOMOSEXUAL UNIONS

and, above all, to avoid exposing young people to erroneous ideas about sexuality and marriage that would deprive them of their necessary defences and contribute to the spread of the phenomenon.

In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

From the Considerations Regarding…

Lifestyles and the underlying presuppositions these express not only externally shape the life of society, but also tend to modify the younger generation’s perception and evaluation of forms of behaviour. Legal recognition of homosexual unions would obscure certain basic moral values and cause a devaluation of the institution of marriage

 

[GloriaPatri4]

From the Considerations Regarding…

CONCLUSION

1. The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions. The common good requires that laws recognize, promote and protect marriage as the basis of the family, the primary unit of society. Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behaviour, with the consequence of making it a model in present-day society, but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity. The Church cannot fail to defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself.

The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience of March 28, 2003, approved the present Considerations, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered their publication.

Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, June 3, 2003, Memorial of Saint Charles Lwanga and his Companions, Martyrs.

Joseph Card. Ratzinger*
Prefect*

Angelo Amato, S.D.B.*
Titular Archbishop of Sila
Secretary *

 

[contemplative]

wcknight:

No one can prevent exposing kids or parents to different life styles. They are already there in the real world. What we can do, is educate folks that such life styles exist, and that they are not morally acceptable by the Church.

At the same time, we also have to teach our kids, that even though we do not agree with this life style, we should treat folks with respect. And rather than punish or judge folks because we don’t approve of how they live, we pray for them, and we hope they can make the life changes that Church asks of them.

Eventually all people are exposed to the real world. The question is ‘When do parents want their young children exposed to homosexuality?’ It is very possible to protect a child of this until teen years. I did it and my children have an avtive homosexual relative who lives nearby!!!
So don’t tell anyone hear on this thread it isn’t possible to protect children. All good parents should want to protect their children from exposure to sin for as long as possible.

Would you push your child’s hand onto a hot stove burner and then say ’ There, there my child see how awful that is?’
Give me a break wknight!
I have many more examples…would you like to hear more?

 

[wcknight]

I have never advocated purposely exposing kids to sin nor woud I. IF it were possible to exclude sin from their lives I would. The world has changed tremendously since my kids were school age. Ten years ago this would hardly have been an issue.

But since it is, we have to deal with it. I happen to think discrimination and prejudice is not the route to teach our kids right from wrong. In early grade school the kids will not even care or even notice the situations. As they get older, they need to learn that such life styles exist. Knowing that they exist and that is goes against Church teachings is far different from exposing them to this life style.

Allowing kids to attend a Catholic school is a far cry from having the kids live in a same sex household. If the same sex parents can be discrete about their relationship, I don’t see this as a major problem. It is not the ideal situation, but I think far more damage is done if a feeling of discrimination and isolation is made.

Part of the problems with segragation was aggrivated by kids having never dealt with folks of other backgrounds in their schools or communities. You may want to lock your kids in a basement to prevent them from ever seeing less desirable parts of society, but I don’t think that helps.

BTW I have NEVER put any of my kids in harms way and such a suggestion is an insult. And no I would not want to hear any other example.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

I have never advocated purposely exposing kids to sin nor woud I. IF it were possible to exclude sin from their lives I would. The world has changed tremendously since my kids were school age. Ten years ago this would hardly have been an issue.

It is an issue now because few would take a stand to stop it. One of the issues here is that parents should have the authority of when they expose their children to something as detrimental as same sex behavior and example.

If parents did nor care about such things they could send their kids to public schools and save their money. Folks expect a higher standard from a so called Catholic school.

 

[felra]

Allowing kids to attend a Catholic school is a far cry from having the kids live in a same sex household. If the same sex parents can be discrete

about their relationship, I don’t see this as a major problem. It is not the ideal situation, but I think far more damage is done if a** feeling **of discrimination and isolation is made.

So feelings and speculated psychological impact is more impotant than morality and preserving the intergity of Catholic culture? Why should I set the bar and expectation low? After all, I am paying out of pocket for my children’s Catholic education.

Bye the way, the Church has seen enough of how “discreet” immoral sexual exchange is a MAJOR problem and cause for scandal in the Church.

Part of the problems with segragation was aggrivated by kids having never dealt with folks of other backgrounds in their schools or communities. You may want to lock your kids in a basement to prevent them from ever seeing less desirable parts of society, but I don’t think that helps.

I am all for appropriate and controlled and monitored multi-cultural exposure. BUT not a lesson and indoctrination in secualar/wordly values in *my *Catholic school setting. The primary responsibility of my children’s Catholic school is to assist in inculcating in them solid, orthodox Catholic values and world view. Unitl they are well imbued, I insist that they be incubated in their Catholic school learing experience from counter Catholic vaues and world view; until with graduated exposure they are ready to fully fledge the nest into the missionary ground of our secular society.

 

[wcknight]

I’m glad you folks are running the world, I’m sure it will be a much better place your way.

 

[fix]

wcknight:

I’m glad you folks are running the world, I’m sure it will be a much better place your way.

I am missing your point here? Should a Catholic school not live up to its mission?

 

[wcknight]

It has several missions, one of which is to promote a community of charity and understanding. As most of the poll replies suggest, the school is not condoning same sex attraction just because it allows a child in.

IF you want to sustain an atmosphere of exclusion, discrimination and isolation, that is one thing but if you value understanding that is something else. We allow non catholics and even atheists into our schools, but we are not advocating those belifs or non beliefs.

When we advocate separation, exclusion and isolation I think we are sending out the wrong message.

 

[contemplative]

wcknight:

Part of the problems with segragation was aggrivated by kids having never dealt with folks of other backgrounds in their schools or communities. You may want to lock your kids in a basement to prevent them from ever seeing less desirable parts of society, but I don’t think that helps.

No one is proposing locking children in basements. So don’t YOU insult me.
Also, segragation is not the proposal here. You are confusing God’s given gift of discernment with segragation.

What if a parent…any parent walked into a school function sporting a blasphemous tatoo or t-shirt…use your own imagination…wouldn’t that person be promptly escorted out? Now you tell me how Catholic school officials are going to escort a same-sex couple out of a school function? My point is that once you let the blatant sin in you are asking for trouble. You can more easily escort a father sporting a blasphemous tatoo out of school than a man and man or woman and woman linked at the elbows.
Don’t invite evil in.

 

[contemplative]

wcknight:

When we advocate separation, exclusion and isolation I think we are sending out the wrong message.

Again, this isn’t what is being advocated here. Your angle is negative and doesn’t apply here.

Catholic parents have the God given gift of discernment for their children. If Catholic schools aren’t willing to help protect their children from evil then it is time for parents to withdraw their children and homeschool. Where will that leave you wcknight???..with empty schools and eventually closed doors.

 

[contemplative]

The gay agenda today has so many people today scared and frightened to even have a head up about how evil homosexuality really is.
This weekend I was a fine restaurant and happened to notice how absolutely out of place my waiter was compared to the rest of the male and female wait service. My waiter had one ring for every finger on his left hand…no exageration…he also sported two ear rings in one ear and he had a swish and a sway to his walk that would put any hoola dancer to shame. I couldn’t understand why this guy was allowed to dress this way in this restaraunt while the other male and female table servers were dressed prudently for this conservative establishment. I would have fired the guy myself if I had half a chance. My point is that the homosexual agenda is intimidating people in big ways and small to gain acceptance. I am not intimidated and neither should you. You don’t need to side with the homosexual agenda.