M
mikekle
Guest
then it really makes no difference if the guy ONLY looks or goes thru with the actual sex act then…if its all the same sin, what motivation would a man have to stop at only looking?
- Status
A
ajecphotos
Guest
MATTHEW 5:27-28 27 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
That is hard. Sometimes u can look at someone and instantly you have a lustful thought without even trying!! We are made so that one attracts the other. It can be very difficult to be 100% pure in mind and thought etc.
People, if someone commits adultery and sometime in the future they are so upset that they have committed this evil sin, can they be ‘really’ forgiven? Will God forgive them? I know they will need to confess to a priest but once they commit adultery are they doomed?
That is hard. Sometimes u can look at someone and instantly you have a lustful thought without even trying!! We are made so that one attracts the other. It can be very difficult to be 100% pure in mind and thought etc.
People, if someone commits adultery and sometime in the future they are so upset that they have committed this evil sin, can they be ‘really’ forgiven? Will God forgive them? I know they will need to confess to a priest but once they commit adultery are they doomed?
M
MJJean
Guest
There is a difference between a lustful thought that crosses the mind and one that is invited over for tea. A random lustful though that just popped into a persons head is one thing. Deliberately entertaining that thought and/or acting on it in any way is quite another.
I do believe God forgives adulterers. I hope He does as I was once an adulterer. I think that, in order to be forgiven, the person must truly repent in their heart and must firmly intend to never do such a thing again.
Personally, I am in a strange place. I had a horrid sham marriage and we both never stopped dating. Some of my relationships were physical and three were both emotional and physical. I do regret that I sinned against God even though I didn’t even believe in God at the time. But I have to be honest and say I don’t regret the experiences I shared with any of my lovers. Those experiences helped shape me into who I am today. Now that I am married to my DH I get sick at the thought of adultery, so I know I will never do it again.
I will go to Confession once my annulment, please God, is finished and I am preparing to be received into the Church. I will lay it all out for Father and see if my regret and intent to never commit that sin again is sufficient for a good Confession and Absolution. If so, :extrahappy: If not, I will continue to soul search and reevaluate until I am able to make a good confession.
A
ajecphotos
Guest
I didnt think one could get annulment if one had committed adultery?
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
An annulment means that there was no valid marriage to begin with. Adultery can be a sign of that. Though it is not always the sign of that. To have the Church investigate if there is a marriage or not is always an option. One does not get an annulment because of something that happened after the marriage was contracted, but something that happened after the marriage was contracted can be a sign of problems with the contract.
A
ajecphotos
Guest
Still strange!
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
How so? It is pretty basic Catholic Theology.
A
ajecphotos
Guest
So its ok to commit adultery then if the circumstances permit?!!
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
How in the world would you draw that conclusion?
Adultery is a grave sin, damnable for all eternity. It is never ok. That fact has nothing to do with an annulment…
A
ajecphotos
Guest
But, surely annulment cannot be agreed upon if that person has been committing adultery during their marriage as however one has been married its still classed as adultery when one has a relationship during that marriage!
Its an excuse to say that the marriage was not valid just to get an annulment!
In the eyes of God the guy above was married. Whichever way you look at it!!
M
Midwest88
Guest
“is the above adultery”
Yes.
Yes.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
You are missing a big chunk of the point, so I guess we will move on. What happened in the thread is indeed grave matter and adultery is as evil as evil gets. It is a sin that sends people to hell.
A
ajecphotos
Guest
No point missed.
Anyone that is married and then commits adultery cannot expect to get annulment. Doesnt matter if they think the marriage is not legal etc etc. In the eyes of God, they were married. Period.
Anyone that is married and then commits adultery cannot expect to get annulment. Doesnt matter if they think the marriage is not legal etc etc. In the eyes of God, they were married. Period.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
ok, I am not sure what you are saying. Cheating is not a reason to grant an annulment. Ok. I think we all know that.
A
ajecphotos
Guest
Its in refernce to MJ jean above. Hoping for an annulment when he had several affairs!!
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Serial infidelity can be an INDICATOR that there are grounds for an annulment.:banghead:
So, yes, anyone can hope for an annulment for a host of reasons, including infidelity. However, annulment cannot be granted on the grounds of infidelity alone, BUT it may be an indicator of a marriage not being valid and thereby declared null.
What exactly are you missing here?
M
MJJean
Guest
Hoosier has it right.
The Church teaches that marriage is permanent (for life), exclusive (monogamous), needs to be open to life (willing to accept children). These are often referred to as “the goods of marriage”. When one attempts marriage with direct intentions against these things at the time of the ceremony they have entered into an invalid marriage.
There are also other grounds for nullity. Those ones are the pertinent ones for this discussion.
Now, if a marriage is entered into validly** nothing** that happens afterward including adultery and abuse can nullify that marriage. However, what happens afterward can be used as supporting evidence that there may have been a defect of consent at the time of the ceremony.
I was casually seeing my ex and having casual sex with him. I got pregnant while on the Pill. I wanted to do the right thing and marry the father regardless of my personal feelings.
At the time of the ceremony I, personally, did not intend the marriage to be permanent, to be monogamous, or to have a child with him after we married. My friend and I were discussing the future divorce 2 hours before the civil ceremony. Most of my friends and family were aware that both he and I were seeing other people before the marriage, within days of the marriage, and until it’s end. My friends and family were also well aware that I was using ABC because I did not want to become pregnant during the marriage. Thankfully, I kept in touch with a few of my friends from that time of my life and they were willing to act as witnesses.
So, my annulment grounds are Canon 1095 and 1101.
The grounds listed for my ex are 1095, 1101, and 1101.2
You can read the grounds and see how they apply here: ewtn.com/expert/answers/marital_consent.htm
As you can see, the adultery is not a ground for annulment. It’s evidence that we simulated marriage by excluding essential properties of marriage (permanence, fidelity, openness to life) at the time of the ceremony.
A
ajecphotos
Guest
Sorry but to me it just seems that you are coming up with excuses to get an annulment! Why did you go through with the marriage if you knew you were going to divorce / separate? I really cant see you getting an annulment for what you have written. Obviously i hope i am wrong. I wish you all the best
M
MJJean
Guest
I suppose to understand it you would have to understand the circumstances.Sorry but to me it just seems that you are coming up with excuses to get an annulment! Why did you go through with the marriage if you knew you were going to divorce / separate? I really cant see you getting an annulment for what you have written. Obviously i hope i am wrong. I wish you all the best
I was, to put it bluntly, sleeping around and got pregnant accidentally due to a conflict between the Pill and a medication I was on. I didn’t know my ex very well and what I did know I didn’t like, but I didn’t need to like him to sleep with him. It was supposed to be a casual no strings thing. Once I had my daughter I felt like I should marry her father to legitimize her, for appearances, and because I wanted her to feel secure in her formative years. I’d read that 80% of a child’s development happens before age 5, so I figured 5-6 years and I’d get a divorce and move on. Plus, my mom was in poor health and I knew it would make her feel better if I appeared married and settled. She wouldn’t have to worry about me and her first grandbaby in her last days. (She died a little over a year later)
The marriage ceremony was meant as a legal and social convention. Nothing more. I didn’t think being legally married should change my life at all. Why not keep dating? I was still looking for a permanent mate, so why risk passing up the right man just because I was technically married to my daughters father? Why not continue having emotional and physical relationships with other men when I had no emotional attachment to my legal husband? I didn’t feel I owed him anything.
My ex and I pulled on some clothes, drove to Toledo, Ohio because they have no waiting period, got a marriage license, had a courthouse ceremony immediately, drove back to MI, and then I dropped him off so I could go to work. No muss, no fuss, social convention complete.
My ex and I lived separate lives, but sometimes would end up at the same party. The first such party thrown by mutual friends was about 2 weeks after the marriage ceremony. I was there with my then boyfriend J and his friend P. When I realized my legal husband was going to be there I and I’d probably be expected to introduce him to people he didn’t know and explain the situation I thought I’d make it fun. So, at that party and every party he attended that I happened to be at, I’d introduce him as “My first husband, S.” Then I’d be asked who my second husband is and I’d say “I don’t know. Haven’t met him yet.”
When I told the guy I was dating at the time of the marriage that I was marrying S he asked me if that meant we could no longer see each other. I blinked and asked why he thought me getting married would mean we’d have to end our relationship…
I introduced my boyfriend as my boyfriend when we were out together even if my legal husband was there. That’s what he was and he was who I spent my evening with. No reason to try to pretend otherwise when anyone who saw us together would immediately see what we were to each other. Who the boyfriend was changed over the years, but I was rarely without male companionship. I spent most of my weekends sleeping over at the home of whoever I was dating. Some weekdays here and there, too. My ex knew, sometimes he’d drop me and the baby off so he could use the car to go do whatever he was into at the time.
My ex also had his women. Some of them I met and some I didn’t. No skin off my nose.
The whole concept of marriage as taught by the Church was foreign to me then. I wasn’t Christian. To me, if you were legally married you were in whatever you wanted to make of the marriage and if you were divorced you were no longer married. Period. divorce dissolved marriage, end of story. There was not even a vague idea of marriage being for life or requiring fidelity or of the idea that children are a natural part of marriage.
The Church says that a couple has to freely consent to marriage as taught by the Church for the marriage to be valid. One cannot freely consent to something they don’t understand and/or do not believe to be true. What we consented to during that ceremony was not a marriage. I know I had no idea what a marriage was back when I was 19 and I am pretty sure my ex didn’t, either.
I left S in December 1999, 5 years and 3 months after the marriage ceremony, and never looked back. I started dating the man I wanted to be my permanent mate shortly after. A year and a half later I moved in with him and we began saving to pay for my divorce. I filed for divorce July 2002 and the divorce was final in October 2002. I was remarried to my DH 6.5 weeks later. 10 years after that my DH decided to return to the Church and I began to research his faith. The more I learned the more I liked. I went to Mass with him to watch him sing with the choir and just knew I was meant to be there and that I would convert. The Holy Spirit truly entered my heart that day and I became Christian for the first time in my adult life. The rest, as they say, is history.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
There are no excuses to get an annulment, it is either granted or not. I think you should look at the process more. I have, it has helped and confused my understanding of marriage. It has made me question things I never thought I would question, including the Church and marriage in general, but it also has educated me in the subject and I understand it pretty well. Now, I place it in one of those areas where I do not agree/understand certain things that the Church says or does or seems to do, but I have to chalk it up to obedience and Trust in the faith. If say, the Church Changed Her teaching on marriage, I would have to leave… Plus, it is a subject that is at the forefront of Catholic discussion.Sorry but to me it just seems that you are coming up with excuses to get an annulment! Why did you go through with the marriage if you knew you were going to divorce / separate? I really cant see you getting an annulment for what you have written. Obviously i hope i am wrong. I wish you all the best
- Status