Advice Please - Wife Going Overboard

[Denise1957]

Just my two cents worth. I don’t think it’s right for a woman to insist on so many changes to family life without consulting first with her husband. It’s disrespectful of her to do that. Sure, she seems to think that the changes are good, but that doesn’t give her the right to insist on them. That being said, maybe a compromise can be reached, as others have suggested. Getting the kids back in school would serve to get her away from the homeschooling moms at least some of the time. A husband does have a right to have a say in his children’s education. Also, it could be explained to the wife that it’s not Church teaching that a TV shouldn’t be in the home. TV’s are allowed (though it’s prudent to monitor what the children are allowed to watch). The husband might also consider consulting with Dr. Ray Guarendi, a Catholic psychologist on EWTN. He has a radio program where people can call in with all sorts of questions (many of which are related to family issues). You can also ask questions via his website, I think. Here’s an EWTN link:

ewtn.com/radio/weekday/thedoctorisin.asp

The one thing, though, that doesn’t make sense is the negative attitude of the wife towards drinking alcohol. Traditional Catholics do not, as far as I have experienced, have any aversion to drinking alcohol at all. After all, they aren’t Amish (even though some may dress a bit like them).

I also feel that there’s nothing wrong with wanting to attend the EF, or to insist only on receiving communion from a priest or deacon. These are reasonable things, IMO. Gotta pick your battles.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Francoist - Element’s of the wife’s actions may indeed be related to a faith journey. But:

• Do you say the Church was wrong in appointing Eucharistic Ministers and the people should reject them?

The Church does allow this, but there are rules that aren’t always followed…

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

§2.** Extraordinary ministers may distribute Holy Communion at eucharistic celebrations only** when there are no ordained ministers present or when those ordained ministers present at a liturgical celebration are truly unable to distribute Holy Communion. They may also exercise this function at eucharistic celebrations where there are particularly large numbers of the faithful and which would be excessively prolonged because of an insufficient number of ordained ministers to distribute Holy Communion.

This function is supplementary and extraordinary and must be exercised in accordance with the norm of law. It is thus useful for the diocesan bishop to issue particular norms concerning extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion which, in complete harmony with the universal law of the Church, should regulate the exercise of this function in his diocese. Such norms should provide, amongst other things, for matters such as the instruction in eucharistic doctrine of those chosen to be extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, the meaning of the service they provide, the rubrics to be observed, the reverence to be shown for such an august Sacrament and instruction concerning the discipline on admission to Holy Communion.

To avoid creating confusion, certain practices are to be avoided and eliminated where such have emerged in particular Churches:

— extraordinary ministers receiving Holy Communion apart from the other faithful as though concelebrants;

— association with the renewal of promises made by priests at the Chrism Mass on Holy Thursday, as well as other categories of faithful who renew religious vows or receive a mandate as extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion;

— the habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion at Mass thus arbitrarily extending the concept of “a great number of the faithful”.

 

[maryjk]

They are good things that are allowed by the Church and this woman wants to do them. **She is not telling you to do them, so just relax. The way you feel about these things is irrelevant to this couple. **

Excuse me?

I have not made this about me. I am not sure where you got that?

The wife is making changes for the family that the husband doesn’t agree with. Telling him to wear a brown scapular, when he doesn’t want to, is wrong. There isn’t anything good about forcing your personal devotions onto someone else. Making your children wear Little House on the Prairie dresses, against your husband’s wishes, is wrong. And unilaterally deciding to cancel cable because you don’t like anyone watching TV is wrong.

Yes, these choices can be good. But by forcing them on the family, she has made them bad choices.

 

[AnnArbor]

This is not a good analogy because the things that this wife wants are good in themselves.

But they are not. Some of them are neutral–like preferring the EF (as long as she doesn’t attempt to present it as superior to the OF) and some of them, like attempting to prevent the girls from competitive sports, are actually negative.

 

[Denise1957]

Wanting to attend the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, wanting to protect her children from the harmful influences of television and wanting to dress modestly are basically good things. She has gone about them the wrong way.

The husband does not need help to see these things negatively. He is already immersed in the negative aspects of what she is doing. He needs help to see what is good in them.

I agree. Many people, including some Catholics, are afraid of what others might think of them for doing something that goes against the dominant secular culture. A culture which bombards us, though TV, magazines, films, billboards, advertising and books about the need to dress in a provocative and sexy manner. We are so used to it, that we don’t really realize it’s negative affect on us. And even when we do realize it’s negative effect, we don’t want to appear different by going against it. Perhaps the husband (please correct me if I’m wrong) is worried about what others will think if his wife dresses modestly, or homeschools, or attends the EF. I sympathize with the husband, but I’m trying to see the wife’s possible perspective, too. But I still don’t get the wife’s aversion to alcohol. Trads like drinking alcohol - so it doesn’t make sense.

 

[Evania]

To the OP:

I think it has reached the point where this thread has outlived it’s usefulness. You have received some great advice. I know you have talked with your wife, and it seems like the next step would be to see a trusted priest that you both would feel comfortable talking with.

I don’t fault you or your wife. You have valid concerns, as I’m sure she has valid reasons. The goal is to find a balance that will not damage your marriage. I think it would be helpful to get away from the third party opinions. Sure, it’s great to get advice from this forum, but without hearing your wife’s side, viewpoints, or experiences in what formed her opinion, it will be hard for you to get solid advice since we are only hearing one side. Since we are getting only your viewpoint of the situation, it’s easy for us as complete strangers to endlessly speculate on your wife and make judgments on how she’s maybe right or wrong based solely on your version on events. It’s not charitable to your wife to have complete strangers pondering whether she is having a mental breakdown, as a few on here have suggested. Likewise, it may be helpful for her to step away from the group of women who you feel are heavily influencing her. You need time to yourselves so you both can hear eachother out without the distraction of responsibilities, kids, job etc… Maybe you can arrange for a babysitter and take her out for dinner or even a weekend get away?
Either way, I don’t fault you for being worried. I don’t fault your wife either. This is something you will both need to respectfully hear eachother out on.

My prayers are with you both

 

[Kal2012]

:
The wife is making changes for the family that the husband doesn’t agree with. Telling him to wear a brown scapular, when he doesn’t want to, is wrong. There isn’t anything good about forcing your personal devotions onto someone else. Making your children wear Little House on the Prairie dresses, against your husband’s wishes, is wrong. And unilaterally deciding to cancel cable because you don’t like anyone watching TV is wrong.

Yes, these choices can be good. But by forcing them on the family, she has made them bad choices.

Exactly.

It’s one thing to change your routine when everyone is on the same page. It’s totally another when everyone is forced to change their lifestyle because someone decides to change the rules. A marriage isn’t just one person deciding the way it’s going to be (man or wife). It’s a partnership.

I don’t have a problem with anyone getting more religious, but I do have problems when people start judging others based on how they practice faith.

I wish my husband was more “Catholic”, but he’s not. That’s just reality. Still, he IS Catholic and it’s his decision how little or how much he wants to show or act out his faith.

This was the look on his face when I told him I wanted to convert. and raise our son Catholic Still I didn’t tell him the week before Easter Vigil. We talked about it - a lot in the fall/winter.

The older kids should have some say because when they leave school, they will be leaving their friends/activities and that’s a huge adjustment for them (let alone the whole family). That’s a huge deal to kids.

Also, a lot of us would love to have a husband who goes to mass w/his family every weekend. So, it’s hard for me to get over the fact that the husband just isn’t “Catholic” enough. (Just talking from the peanut gallery here).

And these days, it’s just neglectful not to prepare your daughters for the secular world. They aren’t going to live w/you forever and they need to be prepared to deal w/people who aren’t strict religious Catholics.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree that she is going about it the wrong way and that it may be sinful. It will be easy for him to forget the basic good behind it in these circumstances which is why I am reminding him.

While we can’t say in general terms that the EF is better than the OF, a given Catholic can decide that the EF is better for him or her. There is no question that it is better for me to attend the EF. This very well may be the case for the wife. If your “closing oneself off from the world” comment refers to getting rid of television, that too depends on the individual. I see no reason to think that any of the things she wants are wrong in themselves.

I agree.

They are ONE FLESH as husband and wife. She is not acknowledging her husband’s viewpoint, needs, desires, etc. at all, but steamrolling her own beliefs in the name of being more holy. She no longer has the option to do whatever she wants in life. She’s chosen a vocation as wife and mother. She just doesn’t get to steamroll the entire family this way. There was NOTHING WRONG with their previous lifestyle as devout and normal Catholics.

OP, how are the children handling this change in their mom? You’ve never responded to my question.

 

[Xantippe]

“Perhaps the husband (please correct me if I’m wrong) is worried about what others will think if his wife dresses modestly, or homeschools, or attends the EF.”

There are dozens of different ways to dress modestly, and the OP’s wife has chosen just one of them. I get a half dozen catalogs every week with attractive modern outfits, suitable for middle-aged mothers of large families (I love, love Landsend). Long swishy skirts and denim jumpers are not the only way to go.

Now that I think of it, it should be possible for the OP’s wife to find nicer versions of the frump-wear that she has been wearing.

“And these days, it’s just neglectful not to prepare your daughters for the secular world. They aren’t going to live w/you forever and they need to be prepared to deal w/people who aren’t strict religious Catholics.”

Exactly. It would be a terrible mistake to raise girls who think that they need to choose between (on the one hand) school, basketball and the Food Channel and (on the other hand) their faith. They might easily decide that the faith can’t possibly be true if it makes ridiculous demands.

One of the most important things that the OP and his wife can model for their children is the ability to discern between the different offerings of the modern secular world, figuring out what we can keep and what we can’t.

 

[russet1]

If we take the Catholic aspect out of it, and substitute some other radical transformation, it’s easier to see that intervention needs to be done. If the wife had decided to join a motorcycle gang, and wear leather miniskirts, wanted her husband to ride a Harley, grow his beard out, and let the children drink beer, it would be easy to see that this is wrong, and she needs some help. It’s not about being Catholic, it’s the fact that the wife is doing all this in response to the influence of others OUTSIDE her family, in direct opposition to what her husband and she had been doing, perfectly happily, before she met these friends. For some reason, these people sparked some sort of change inside her. People who join cults are frequently idealistic, insecure, and in need of rules and structure from the outside. I suspect that is what the OP’s wife is like, and this is just extreme and is showing what is going on with her.

To the person who said to buy his wife some new clothing for her birthday - She wouldn’t wear it and would likely throw it away.

Hmmm Interesting. If we change the variables I wonder if the answers on here would change.
If say a Muslim wife felt called to be a Christian. Or a calvanist wife was in RCIA and intended to convert I wonder if people would be advising the husband to assert his “leadership” role.

 

[Rau]

If you think someone can’t school 4 children, how the heck does a public school teacher school 20+??
.

If the 4 children were of similar age, sure, but these children are not, they span several grades, the oldest being only a year or 2 from high-school. Ask yourself the question, “is it likely that the children will benefit from this?”. Hence my concern about the rational basis for this home-schooling proposal.

 

[russet1]

Just to be practical for a moment, but how does one woman home-school 4 children (while dealing with a toddler) and seriously believe an adequate job can be done? This element of the situation alone causes me to question whether there is any possibility of some kind of mental “break” affecting your wife?

I wonder how the older children are reacting to the changes in their mother?

Well, I am homeschooling my two school age children now while my 3 year old and 3 month old are napping. It is quite easy and calm in my house. And I have time to type this. Perhaps you could start a thread asking your question about homeschooling. I’m sure there are some on hear who could answer your questions and educate you on how it is not only possible but sometimes rather beneficial. Also, contrary to popular belief 4 kids is not always a handful.
If you are saying that an “adaquate” job cannot be done I just might agree with you. Our goal with homeschooling is not to provide an “adequate” education but rather the best one possible! And who better to know the educational needs of each child than the person who has taught them EVERY thing else.
As JP2 remarked, parents are the primary educators. That applies to faith and life.
(Coincidentally “faith and life” is the name of a Catholic homeschooling curriculum.)

But this is all off topic anyway. I’m sure there are some threads for you to read about this somewhere on this site.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

If the 4 children were of similar age, sure, but these children are not, they span several grades, the oldest being only a year or 2 from high-school. Ask yourself the question, “is it likely that the children will benefit from this?”. Hence my concern about the rational basis for this home-schooling proposal.

The littlest children aren’t really doing school yet, and the older ones are mostly independent learners. The middle ones can benefit from doing some shared work. It’s really not that hard, especially since an entire school day’s worth of work can be done in an average morning. You don’t do “school at home,” you don’t waste all the time changing subjects, you just get the job done. It’s really not that difficult.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

If the 4 children were of similar age, sure, but these children are not, they span several grades, the oldest being only a year or 2 from high-school. Ask yourself the question, “is it likely that the children will benefit from this?”. Hence my concern about the rational basis for this home-schooling proposal.

The different ages can make it easier. The older children can help the younger children with their lessons (and “teaching” reinforces what they have learned) and younger children enjoy learning from older ones.

 

[russet1]

Hi Russet1,

I am very well educated on my faith, but thank you for the suggestion. I’m glad you are educated in your faith. I am as well, but i would never turn down the opportunity to learn and grow more. My wife is not praying for me to become Catholic because I already am. She is praying for me to adopt a bunch of radical customs and lifestyle changes that were never a part of our marriage bargain.Yes, they were. It is not a marriage bargain. It is a sacrament. For better or worse my friend. I am definitely in the pew with her every single Sunday worshiping the very same Christ as she is.Hopefully she is not saying you are not!

I have talked with my wife a lot about this, but she always has the last word with, “Why would you have a problem with our family being closer to God and closer to living His way?” How could that be the “last word” why are not your next words to her "His way is my way. There are not two “ways” here. You stated that you are well educated in your faith well DEFEND it! My response is that God does not ask us to do all these things. First, you don’t really know that. And second offer her proof.I have tried to compromise with her (i.e. I have not said a word about her church hair covering even though I dislike it) It seems odd that you would dislike something done to honor our Lord. perhaps it is what it stands for in your mind that you don’t like. A visible symbol of your problembut I do have to draw a line when it comes to the children being raised this way. It’s just hard because all my objections just seem like I’m being unholy to her. She just accuses me of not taking my role as spiritual leader properly.She is not feeling fed spiritually. Why is this family not spending an hour beofre the blessed sacrament and talking of how to be holy? Share what it means to be holy with her. lead her. or someone else will. Don’t just talk about the football game, talk about God, salvation, the Eucharist, your favorite priest or author. Talk about a piece of scripture you read while praying!
This hurts and honestly makes me angry because I do take that job very seriously.

Yeah, it does hurt. And she is not doing a great job of giving you what you need either.
Practice charity with her and see what happens. Assume she is legitimately filling a need with these things. Try to learn about them and how they can be compatible with your Catholic faith. After all they are from the Catholic faith originally. Do not debate hot topics with her. Support her, help her. She is needing something and she is trying to tell you something.
Be honest with yourself. On this site we only have your version and opinions will tend to agree with the way you have presented the situation. But put your pride aside and step back, pray, learn. Try not to let your hurt and anger and confusion come out.
You could very well be right that she is going overboard. Or you could be having a reaction that is emotional and not rational. Only you could know this, so all the advice here does not really solve anything.
Including mine!

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Hmmm Interesting. If we change the variables I wonder if the answers on here would change.
If say a Muslim wife felt called to be a Christian. Or a calvanist wife was in RCIA and intended to convert I wonder if people would be advising the husband to assert his “leadership” role.

I don’t think the hypotheticals compare. Sumbission in the Catholic church is supposed to be mutual. I can’t say the same for Islam or any protestant church so I don’t know what advising the husband would mean. I reversed the roles in an earlier post and I think that is a better comparison.

Converting to a different mainsteram religion is different than imposing practices of a fringe group on the family when they are already devout.

 

[russet1]

The different ages can make it easier. The older children can help the younger children with their lessons (and “teaching” reinforces what they have learned) and younger children enjoy learning from older ones.

My second child has a distinct advantage because she has watched her sister go though all the stuff already.

 

[maryjk]

My two oldest children are daughters. My wife is now wanting them to wear skirts or dresses full time, and has said she has concerns about them being involved in competitive sports teams because that does not help foster their femininity and their future vocations as either mothers or nuns.

This comment has been haunting me.

I am concerned that your wife sees her daughters as only ever being mothers or nuns. Does she not see college for them? An option of a career?

A good friend of mine has six children, but is also an RN. She also home schooled her children. Now that the children are older she works on the maternity ward at our local hospital.

There is certainly nothing wrong with a young lady having an education. Or having a job/career. These are not against Catholic teaching, in any way.

 

[PennyinCanada]

I haven’t read all the pages of replies but it does seem like she’s steamrolling her way along. As the husband and head of the family, the easiest reply is that you have heard her concerns and you with think about them, pray about them, but until then, there won’t be any changes. Rome wasn’t built in a day. As the St. Joseph of the home, you take your responsibility seriously.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

This comment has been haunting me.

I am concerned that your wife sees her daughters as only ever being mothers or nuns. Does she not see college for them? An option of a career?

A good friend of mine has six children, but is also an RN. She also home schooled her children. Now that the children are older she works on the maternity ward at our local hospital.

There is certainly nothing wrong with a young lady having an education. Or having a job/career. These are not against Catholic teaching, in any way.

Yes. St. Gianna Beretta Molla, anyone?