Afghan Christian convert is released

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pro_universal:
Can you please explain to me why you would turn to an Associate Professor of Medicine for good historical information?
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can you explain to me why you are fond of commiting the ‘Ad Hominem’ fallacy? Just because he is an Associate Professor of Medicine it doesn’t make him wrong. He is an accurate author. I haven’t found any problems with his articles. He quotes Islamic sources and he quotes historians.

besides, you’re not a historian or a scholar of anything, so why should anyone believe a word you say?
 
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discipleofJesus:
can you explain to me why you are fond of commiting the ‘Ad Hominem’ fallacy? Just because he is an Associate Professor of Medicine it doesn’t make him wrong. He is an accurate author. I haven’t found any problems with his articles. He quotes Islamic sources and he quotes historians.

besides, you’re not a historian or a scholar of anything, so why should anyone believe a word you say?
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  1. Asking about credentials is not ad hominem. If someone who has a phd in Communications gives your doctor tips on how to operate, it’s not ad hominem to say “wait a minute…why is anything you are saying believable?”
  2. What makes him wrong is the existence of a multitude of sources contrary to his point. Jews rose to some of the highest civil positions in Muslim Spain. When you’re a doctor and you write articles that fly in the face of most historical scholarship, that’s certainly an indication that you are wrong. (A rebuttable presumption, of course.)
  3. How exactly do you know what I do?
 
pro_universal said:
1. Asking about credentials is not ad hominem. If someone who has a phd in Communications gives your doctor tips on how to operate, it’s not ad hominem to say “wait a minute…why is anything you are saying believable?”
  1. What makes him wrong is the existence of a multitude of sources contrary to his point. Jews rose to some of the highest civil positions in Muslim Spain. When you’re a doctor and you write articles that fly in the face of most historical scholarship, that’s certainly an indication that you are wrong. (A rebuttable presumption, of course.)
  2. How exactly do you know what I do?
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More sweeping statements without support. Go ahead, show me “a multitude of sources contrary to his point”. I don’t want to see just 1, 2 or 3, i want to see “a multitude”.

You claimed that “Jews rose to some of the highest civil positions in Muslim Spain”. Assuming that they did (which you haven’t proven, you just claimed that they did), who cares? How does that show that Andrew Bostom’s article is wrong or that the Golden Age of equal rights under Muslim rule in Spain was not a myth?

I don’t know what you do, but I assume you are not a historian or a scholar of anything until you
  1. claim that you are
  2. prove that you are or at least give me enough reason to believe that you are
 
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discipleofJesus:
More sweeping statements without support. Go ahead, show me “a multitude of sources contrary to his point”. I don’t want to see just 1, 2 or 3, i want to see “a multitude”.
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You’ll have to spend lots of time reading for that. It will be a waste of my time and yours for me to copy and post a bibliography from Al Andalus 101.
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discipleofJesus:
You claimed that “Jews rose to some of the highest civil positions in Muslim Spain”. Assuming that they did (which you haven’t proven, you just claimed that they did), who cares? How does that show that Andrew Bostom’s article is wrong or that the Golden Age of equal rights under Muslim rule in Spain was not a myth?
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It shows that the implications of Bostom’s article are misleading. He is claiming that the regime was one of humiliation and virtual slavery over Jews. Appointing Jews to top positions in the public administration is not a mark of humiliation and virtual slavery. fordham.edu/halsall/source/ha-nagid.html

He’s also misleading you by mentioning the Almohad persecution…the Almohads persecuted the other muslims just as much as they did the Jews. He also doesn’t explain how Maimonides got such a great education from his muslim rulers in Spain, if in fact Jews were not to be respected.
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discipleofJesus:
I don’t know what you do, but I assume you are not a historian or a scholar of anything until you
  1. claim that you are
  2. prove that you are or at least give me enough reason to believe that you are
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Since credentials don’t matter to you, what’s the point? If they do matter, then why are you taking the words of an associate professor of medicine as gospel regarding medieval history?
 
pro,
Slaves sometimes are entrusted with great responsibilities, but they are still slaves. In Islamic Spain Jews and Christians were little better then slaves. The results of Islamic occupation led to subsequent problems even after they were finally expelled.
 
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cestusdei:
pro,
Slaves sometimes are entrusted with great responsibilities, but they are still slaves. In Islamic Spain Jews and Christians were little better then slaves. The results of Islamic occupation led to subsequent problems even after they were finally expelled.
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Except the Jews weren’t slaves in Al Andalus.

The expulsion of Jews following the fall of Granada was part of the long European tradition of killing or robbing Jews wherever there was opportunity, nothing more.
 
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pro_universal:
Except the Jews weren’t slaves in Al Andalus.

The expulsion of Jews following the fall of Granada was part of the long European tradition of killing or robbing Jews wherever there was opportunity, nothing more.
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Hahah. Man, you sure do not know your history. If you did, you would have known that many of the Jewish bankers of the day DID help and finance the Moors to conquer Spain. They welcomed them with open arms and were traitors to their host country. This is why many Christians were suspicious of Jews. Jews were treated pretty well in most parts of Spain, being bankers etc. I’m not saying this to be anti-Semetic (I am a diehard supporter of the state of Israel), but it is the truth.
 
Semper Fi:
Hahah. Man, you sure do not know your history. If you did, you would have known that many of the Jewish bankers of the day DID help and finance the Moors to conquer Spain. They welcomed them with open arms and were traitors to their host country. This is why many Christians were suspicious of Jews. Jews were treated pretty well in most parts of Spain, being bankers etc. I’m not saying this to be anti-Semetic (I am a diehard supporter of the state of Israel), but it is the truth.
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Reading your post, I think perhaps you need to reread mine.

The expulsion at the fall of Granada was in 1492, and it was the Christians who did the expelling. I find your post curious given that I’ve just finished a string of posts defending the proposition that Jews were well treated in Muslim Spain, and generally preferred muslim rule there to Christian European rule.
 
Jews and Muslims were expelled from Spain. Why? Because after 700 years of fighting the Spanish didn’t believe they could trust anyone who wasn’t Christian. That was the fault of the Muslim occupiers. It was a direct result of Islamic oppression and it created a paranoia in Spanish society. You’ll see this again in Europe in say about 20 years, 30 tops.
 
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Muslim:
what? where the hell did you get that?
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You asked what country will give refuge to the apostate Muslim who became a Christian. We can interpret this that you want Christians expuled from Afganistan.
 
Semper Fi:
Thank you Almighty God for answering our prayers and may more Afghans convert because of this man’s corageous witness.
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We all can see Trinity is more powerful than Allah 😃
 
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pro_universal:
Since credentials don’t matter to you, what’s the point? If they do matter, then why are you taking the words of an associate professor of medicine as gospel regarding medieval history?
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Of course credentials matter to me. But they are not the only thing that matter to me. In general i will accept what an expert says on a topic of his expertise as opposed to someone who isn’t an expert in that topic.

However, I don’t just ignore the person who isn’t an expert just because he is not an expert. Especially when it comes to Islam, since there seems to be so many people who want to whitewash Islamic history and Islamic beliefs for reasons such as political correctness and dishonesty and deceit in Islam (taqiya and kithman)

I do not accept the words Andrew Bostom as gospel regarding medieval history. At the moment, I find his articles to be reliable, and until I see good evidence that his articles are not reliable, i will accept them as reliable. Not because he is an associate professor of medicine but because he backs up his claims with quotes from Islamic sources and with historians.

So credentials do matter to me. Will you now tell me what are your credentials? Maybe my view of what you have to say will improve after you tell me?
 
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discipleofJesus:
Of course credentials matter to me. But they are not the only thing that matter to me. In general i will accept what an expert says on a topic of his expertise as opposed to someone who isn’t an expert in that topic.
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I think you will find if you look that most experts call Muslim Spain a “golden age” for European Jews. That makes the following more troubling.
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discipleofJesus:
However, I don’t just ignore the person who isn’t an expert just because he is not an expert. Especially when it comes to Islam, since there seems to be so many people who want to whitewash Islamic history and Islamic beliefs for reasons such as political correctness and dishonesty and deceit in Islam (taqiya and kithman)

I do not accept the words Andrew Bostom as gospel regarding medieval history. At the moment, I find his articles to be reliable, and until I see good evidence that his articles are not reliable, i will accept them as reliable. Not because he is an associate professor of medicine but because he backs up his claims with quotes from Islamic sources and with historians.

So credentials do matter to me. Will you now tell me what are your credentials? Maybe my view of what you have to say will improve after you tell me?
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Okay, so on the one hand, you think all the people with credentials are just being politically correct. But a doctor and some anti-muslim sites are truthful (even though they have no credentials, unlike those “politically correct” historians) because why exactly? Have you actually checked any of the sources in that article, or the credentials behind those sources?

As for mine, I took a degree in this area of history (medieval Europe/Byzantium) and continue to study it in terms of legal history.
 
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cestusdei:
Let’s get the names of all the muslims threatening him and protesting him.
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This is a very good idea 🙂 for murderers need to be blacklisted so that they never be allowed to enter either EU or US anymore. As the Lord Jesus commanded “you shall not kill”, both EU and US should not allow those who advocate unlawful killing to reside in these two nations.
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cestusdei:
Then put them on a list of people who can never visit or emigrate to the West. He should be given asylum over and above muslim applicants.
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This is like U.S. State Department list of organisations that sponsor terrorism. Examples include Al-Qaeda, Jamaah Islamiyyah, Islamic Jihad, and Hamas as well as Iran. You need to pressure your government.
 
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murtad:
Emad will mistreat him with threats to get him back to Islam 😃
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No I wouldn’t I already told you what how I would treat him. If someone doesn’t want to be a Muslim I don’t care, that is between them and God. Islam is not in need of anyone.
 
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