Alcohol drinking

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I can tell you from a Pentecostal background, I can say that anything that may dull the senses is not compatable with honoring the temple of the Holy Spirit. A better stance may be reflected in Paul’s writing that “everything may be lawful, but not expedient.”
 
In Israel, grapes are harvested between August and October. Always have been. Some years God sends drought and famine, and there is no harvest.

Most people in Jesus’ time had no access to refrigerators or underground cool storage rooms. The Jews had to preserve the grape juice by fermenting it. Did you ever leave a glass of fresh grape juice out overnight, and sniff it the next day (people with small kids can relate)?

The passover supper, and every other sabbath meal, MUST be celebrated with “the fruit of the vine.”

Passover is in the spring, 6 months after harvest. Jesus celebrated the Last Supper at passover.

=>> Jesus consecrated fermented wine into his Precious Blood.

Any questions?
 
Nan S:
In Israel, grapes are harvested between August and October. Always have been. Some years God sends drought and famine, and there is no harvest.

Most people in Jesus’ time had no access to refrigerators or underground cool storage rooms. The Jews had to preserve the grape juice by fermenting it. Did you ever leave a glass of fresh grape juice out overnight, and sniff it the next day (people with small kids can relate)?

The passover supper, and every other sabbath meal, MUST be celebrated with “the fruit of the vine.”

Passover is in the spring, 6 months after harvest. Jesus celebrated the Last Supper at passover.

=>> Jesus consecrated fermented wine into his Precious Blood.

Any questions?
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I didn’t know this. That was interesting.👍
 
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mj330:
I can tell you from a Pentecostal background, I can say that anything that may dull the senses is not compatable with honoring the temple of the Holy Spirit. A better stance may be reflected in Paul’s writing that “everything may be lawful, but not expedient.”
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I can completly respect your stance, as long as you don’t judge me when I drink a glass of wine.🙂
 
Mmmm… Beeerrr!!.. (especialy Bell’s “Two Hearted Ale”) :clapping:

Peace.
 
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deb1:
I can completly respect your stance, as long as you don’t judge me when I drink a glass of wine.🙂
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What I wrote was only an attempt to give the Pr. argument. I am in no position to judge you. Unfortunately, some of my Pr. brothers will be quick to point out the speck in another’s eye, but will refuse to see the plank in their own eye. Peace.
 
My own study of the history of how alcohol became so* verboten* to some Christian groups is that it began with a prohibition against the use of rum (just rum, not other alcohol) during the infamous “Triangle Trade”–sugar from southern American states’plantations for rum from West Indies distilleries for slaves from coastal Africa for sugar from southern American plantations.
This specific prohibition made perfect sense at the time: it did a dandy job of interrupting (though,sadly, not stopping) the slave trade. Some persons in the northern American states, & in England, introduced this as a way the average person could reduce the profits to slave traders. (I have the idea that this began with Quakers, but I have nothing on paper to back this up).
In any case, during the US’ experiment w/prohibition, there was a strong feeling again, that–partly to obey the law, partly, as had been mentioned, because of the involvement of the criminal gangs in liquor traffic, there was again a move to make alcohol use considered sinful–this was revived.
I have to say that at this point in time, an absolute prohibition makes no sense, as far as I can see. I have 🙂 absolute respect for the personal convictions of others that lead them to reject all beverage alcohol.
I also have :yup: a wine rack in my kitchen…
 
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CanonAlberic:
Mmmm… Beeerrr!!.. (especialy Bell’s “Two Hearted Ale”) :clapping:

Peace.
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D**n, I meant “especially”. Sorry!

Peace.
 
AA and the Catholic religion, should I start a new thread?
I need answers and soon.
 
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compactdiss:
AA and the Catholic religion, should I start a new thread?
I need answers and soon.
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Your post is rather vague. Can you explain what you need answers with?
 
The History Channel recently aired a program on the history of wine making. Until a several hundred years ago with the invention of the cork and glass bottle the pressed grape juice was in a constant state of fermentation.
  1. New wine which was sweet
  2. Old wine which was best, according to Jesus Lk 5:39
  3. Sour wine
  4. Vinegar
The wine, in each stage of fermentation had practical uses in ancient society. It was said that the Roman legions would continue to march and fight until they ran out of wine.

God makes “wine to gladden the human heart…” Psalm 104:15 and now we have men who want to enforce their own traditions upon us, calling what the Lord provides us as evil.

Of course, this is actually Satan’s attack on the Eucharist which requires wine and bread as offered by Melchizedek (Gen 14:18) and Jesus.

“Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him, Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled. Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.” Prov 9:4-6

“…the Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.” Mt 11:19
 
Psalms 104:15. And wine which makes man’s heart glad,
So that he may make his face glisten with oil,
And food which sustains man’s heart.

Zechariah 10:7. "Ephraim will be like a mighty man,
And their heart will be glad as if from wine;
Indeed, their children will see it and be glad,
Their heart will rejoice in the LORD.

(Grape juice does not “make the heart glad”)
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Wine numbs the senses.Thats why it was prescribed as medication. Today there are drugs to ease pain. Just look at all those with drinking problems in this country. If you open the door thats what can happen. Why give satan an oppening to come in.Lets us not be the cause for a brother to fall by our drinking. 👍 God Bless
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There are a good many reasons to abstain from alcohol and there is certainly no reason not to. But, it is not forbidden in scripture. It was not only used for medicinal purpose, it was used in all Hebrew Holy Feasts and celebrations. Jesus and the apostles drank wine. As to the myth that it was only grape juice, we have ancient Hebrew formulae for making Kosher wine. Also, even back then, they knew the difference between grape juice and wine.
 
We can get drunk on oxygen if we get too much of it!

So, please watch how fast you breath. Better yet, let’s stop breathing. This would certainly eliminate light headedness.

The wine consecrated during the Liturgy of the Eucharist is more important to us than the air we breath!

Let no one keep you from the cup, otherwise how would we abide in Jesus and Jesus abide in us? How else will we be raised up on the last day? Jn 6:54-56

Without partaking of the one bread and the cup (1Cor 10:16-18) we can not fully consumate our marriage to the bridegroom, Jesus (Rev 22:16-17). How else will Jesus know us? Mt 7:21-23
 
Alcohol is horribly abused in so many ways by so many.

However, there is no way a Catholic can be totally against alcohol when Christ chose wine when He instituted the Eucharist.
 
Interestingly enough, there is one place in scripture where drinking is absolutely forbidden. Though it’s only for a select group- pregnant women. Looks like God knew when he created us what medicine took a long time to figure out.

Judges 13:4-5

4 Now see to it that you drink no wine or other fermented drink and that you do not eat anything unclean, 5 because you will conceive and give birth to a son

But otherwise, moderate drinking is fine:)

Andy
 
Ok, here’s the opinion of the wife of a (recovered) alcoholic. I have seen the demon side of alcohol, and how it wreaks havoc on a person’s life. That being said, do I drink? Occasionally at special occasions. I was raised in a home where my parents had a glass of wine with dinner, I have never seen my parents get drunk.

My husband was raised in a home where alcohol was forbidden. But had many extended family members that were (and still are) drunks. They never have just one beer. So it was all or nothing. Hubby fell into the all category. Alcoholism is complicated. I personally believe it’s a combination of genes and enviroment.

People get addicted to alot of things. The nature of the alcohol doesn’t change depending on who drinks it. The difference is the people who drink it. The over whelming majority of people that drink alcohol are not alcoholics.

For those who would prefer to err on the side of caution, I certainly respect that. Would I be devastated if I could never have alcohol again, not particularily. But using the Bible to damn people for having a glass of wine is rediculous. Twisting scripture to suit your purpose or opinion is very popular, after all if God says it who could argue? Jesus’ first miracle was changing water into wine at a wedding celebration. Those are the facts. People didn’t drink grape juice at wedding celebrations, they drank wine.
 
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deb1:
I can’t argue that the extreme view is the predominant belief but it does seem that those with the extreme beliefs are the most vocal. It might have to do with my attending an Independent Baptist Church. My sister is LUtheran and she gave me a bottle of wine from a local winery and has asked me to go on a tour of local wineries with her. I think that this is probably a problem with the fundamentalist. I still don’t understand how this belief came about.
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I attend an independent Baptist church, and have never heard anyone completely condemn the use of alcohol. I have heard sermons that mentioned the avoidance of drunkenness, though. The moderate use of alcohol is left to conscience. You’ve come across an extreme minority view, I think.
 
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djrakowski:
I attend an independent Baptist church, and have never heard anyone completely condemn the use of alcohol. I have heard sermons that mentioned the avoidance of drunkenness, though. The moderate use of alcohol is left to conscience. You’ve come across an extreme minority view, I think.
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I agree that there are many Protestants whose views on alcohol are much more moderate then the church that I attended. I think that people in general that hold extreme views are often louder in proclaiming their views then the more moderate among them. This can give us a skewered idea of what a group of people believe. If I only knew of Moslems from the news, I would think that the followers of Islam were all a bunch of terroistic nuts. Luckily, I know that isn’t true.

When I attended the above mentioned church, I did a search on the web to find alternative views to my pastor. I don’t know why but there aren’t many. The majority of Baptist web sites that I came across were very much in the vein that all alcohol drinking was sinful. Now this might be because people with more extreme views are more likely to make a web site? Maybe more moderate people don’t see :confused: the need to argue with the more extreme among themselves?

You are right, I think that my particular church was in the minority in a lot of issues and tended to take extreme views on a lot of issues. I have come across a lot of more middle of the road Protestants lately-thankfully.
 
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deb1:
The majority of Baptist web sites that I came across were very much in the vein that all alcohol drinking was sinful. Now this might be because people with more extreme views are more likely to make a web site? Maybe more moderate people don’t see :confused: the need to argue with the more extreme among themselves?
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Thankfully you’ve realized that “the majority of Baptist websites” doesn’t equate to “the majority of Baptists.” You can go to my church’s Baptist website and not read a single phrase that includes the word “alcohol.”

And another good point you made… we don’t need to argue amongst ourselves when such points are self-evident. We have more important things about which to concern ourselves - defending life and traditional marriage, for example.
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deb1:
You are right, I think that my particular church was in the minority in a lot of issues and tended to take extreme views on a lot of issues. I have come across a lot of more middle of the road Protestants lately-thankfully.
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As long as they’re middle-of-the-road on the right issues, that is 😉

I will add, though, that I was surprised that the most faithful Catholic parish in my area serves alcohol at church functions - a big difference in comparing “good” Catholic churches with “good” evangelical ones. Personally, I prefer one little corner of the world that’s safe from the problems invited by alcohol. But that’s just me, I suppose.
 
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