'Aliens With Souls Are Living Among the Stars' Says Vatican Astronomer
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Bendecida
Guest
Interesting.
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jdnation
Guest
Why am I not surprised to find out it’s Consolmagno as usual… touting his usual ignorant straw men arguments against Creationism and flying high on heretical flights of fancy with concern to aliens.
It’s men like him who are (I hope, unwittingly) promoting bad theology. And as the colourful comments below the article show, he’s not even convincing to the anti-religious.
Creationism doesn’t turn God into some natural force, it is a scientific approach based on the foundation of facts revealed by God Himself that are recorded in His inerrant Word and that the Church has always taught. And why exactly is it wrong to discover God through the laws of space/time and human reason? Isn’t that the point? Do not the Scriptures say that God is clearly known through His creative acts, that by His works He is clearly seen? That the heavens declare His glory? Thus everyone is without excuse for not believing in God?!
But I guess he’d rather believe in Darwinian Evolution, despite that it’s bad science without solid proof or evidence or even a workable and testable thesis as to how evolution works at all and how genetic information can spontaneously increase or how life begins from non-life or even how something comes from nothing.
And the Christian worldview is strongly against any intelligent life being out there. There are no aliens like us. Only one who does not believe in the Fall and Original Sin can subscribe to the idea that other life exists out there with a soul and needs Baptism. For what exactly? Why should they suffer for a sin another committed on another planet? Oh, but that’s all hogwash, right? God then is responsible for the corrupted creation and all the suffering and the need for violence and disease and bloodshed in order for mankind to evolve and survive? So God is responsible for creating death and not sin? So then what was the point of Christ’s Incarnation and Cross then?
For all his credentials Consolmagno is subscribing to and promoting grave errors and undermining the Church’s mission and the faith of millions and the salvation of all. I pray that he and others will come to their senses, practice good science and promote good theology.
It’s men like him who are (I hope, unwittingly) promoting bad theology. And as the colourful comments below the article show, he’s not even convincing to the anti-religious.
Creationism doesn’t turn God into some natural force, it is a scientific approach based on the foundation of facts revealed by God Himself that are recorded in His inerrant Word and that the Church has always taught. And why exactly is it wrong to discover God through the laws of space/time and human reason? Isn’t that the point? Do not the Scriptures say that God is clearly known through His creative acts, that by His works He is clearly seen? That the heavens declare His glory? Thus everyone is without excuse for not believing in God?!
But I guess he’d rather believe in Darwinian Evolution, despite that it’s bad science without solid proof or evidence or even a workable and testable thesis as to how evolution works at all and how genetic information can spontaneously increase or how life begins from non-life or even how something comes from nothing.
And the Christian worldview is strongly against any intelligent life being out there. There are no aliens like us. Only one who does not believe in the Fall and Original Sin can subscribe to the idea that other life exists out there with a soul and needs Baptism. For what exactly? Why should they suffer for a sin another committed on another planet? Oh, but that’s all hogwash, right? God then is responsible for the corrupted creation and all the suffering and the need for violence and disease and bloodshed in order for mankind to evolve and survive? So God is responsible for creating death and not sin? So then what was the point of Christ’s Incarnation and Cross then?
For all his credentials Consolmagno is subscribing to and promoting grave errors and undermining the Church’s mission and the faith of millions and the salvation of all. I pray that he and others will come to their senses, practice good science and promote good theology.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I have my own personal theory that God is going to drive us off the planet, and the method of transit will be quantum teleporting, even now in its infancy. If I consider that Robert Goddard’s liquid fuelled rockets initially flew as high as a telegraph pole (on a good day), and then just 43 years later took men to the moon, then God obviously meant us to develop rocketry.
By the same token I think He expects us to develop Quantum Teleporting to a practical level.
However I’m also a bit of a creationist. If anyone can watch the DVD “Unlocking the Mystery of Life” and then explain how the demonstrated microbiological machinery came about without intelligent (name removed by moderator)ut, they’ve either worked it all out (using their intelligence), or they’ve got more faith in blind chance than I’ve got in God.
That doesn’t mean God can’t create aliens. But when I consider the human record of rape, murder, child abuse, theft, tyranny, war, slavery, sexual abuse, Gulags, concentration camps, religious war, economic exploitation, mass abortion of our very own unborn children, and the fact we can’t even get on with each other, then I wonder why we’re so interested in meeting hypothetical aliens. If they were not fallen, like us for example, yet more advanced, they’d soon work out the safest course of action for them would be to completely destroy us, before we tried to make slaves and dupes out of them.
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Iron_Donkey
Guest
First, unless the last Pope and perhaps this one as well are heretics, acceptance that creationism could be wrong and the mainstream theories right is definitely not heresy.
Second, the objection isn’t that creationism turns God into a natural force, but that it imposes our limited understanding of His nature on His creations. We cannot comprehend God: we have some knowledge and some ways of trying to handle this knowledge, but we know we do not and cannot understand the Divine Nature completely. To say then, that we know with certainty how His Nature would influence how He created the world is a bit… presumptuous.
Third, the belief we hold for religion is completely and totally inappropriate to apply to any form of science. Science doesn’t even claim to attempt to illuminate with certainty the way things are, but rather to propose ways that things could be that would, if true, lead to a universe that agrees with ours on the data we have about ours. Progression is made in science by a constant knowledge that current science is at least slightly wrong and needs to be fixed. And science is such that this is in fact good. It is wildly illogical to believe with certainty a set of ideas which relies on the fact that their wrong to progress.
And forth, no current mainstream science, as much as those few rabid atheists who do so would like to argue otherwise, in any way even hints that God was not involved in the creation of the universe. Recall the first cause argument (emphasis on “first” as opposed to “immediate”): whatever it is that causes us to be here was caused by something which was caused by something which was… etc. The chain terminates at a first cause, which by faith we say is God. The number of in between steps, whether they include evolution or God incarnating a pair of arms and hands and manually sculpting Adam out of clay, is entirely irrelevant to His nature as Creator.
In summary: God created the universe. We don’t know how. To assume that we can deduce God’s methods of creation from the limited knowledge and understanding we have is somewhat presumptuous. Mainstream science does not by its nature make this mistake (though some mainstream scientists do) simply because it doesn’t even try to propose a certain solution. Creationism does. The idea that aliens might possibly exist does not. The idea that they most definitely don’t, does.
And one more note before I finally stop: we cannot blame the mainstream rejection of creationism on scientific prejudice against Christians. Recall that the big bang theory was ridiculed when it was presented by a Catholic Priest until everyone figured out that it actually made sense and adopted it (current theory at the time was a steady state universe.) Thus the simple fact that it is not accepted as valid by most scientists is a large hint that it is, in fact, not valid. I’m not talking about the talking heads, I’m talking about the people who go at it with a chalk board.
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
I have no problem believing Aliens exist on other planets and may have souls.
I also have no problems believing they have visited this planet repatedly and that many (not ALL) UFO sightings are true.
Not talking about “Abduction” stories, but sightings of UFOS. I think they have been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. And I don’t think they are ALL demon-related.
That is more the fundamentalist position. Thanks to God and Christ Holy Mother Church does not have that position.
I also have no problems believing they have visited this planet repatedly and that many (not ALL) UFO sightings are true.
Not talking about “Abduction” stories, but sightings of UFOS. I think they have been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. And I don’t think they are ALL demon-related.
That is more the fundamentalist position. Thanks to God and Christ Holy Mother Church does not have that position.
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lao_tzu
Guest
The Daily Mail is one of the very few assemblages of humans more annoying than creationists.
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PatrickSebast
Guest
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised either way. The thing is we don’t really know the criteria for life yet so it is had to make a good guess at this. Some scientists believe the criteria of life to be very specific, so specific in fact that when taking into account the believed number of planets in the universe and the chance of any of them, including earth, developing anything living is more than 20 orders of magnitude smaller than the actual number of planets (so if the number of planets is estimated to be 10^44 then the chance of anything having life would be (1/(10^67))). Other scientists have left the criteria so broad that it seems like we should expect life any solar system that happens to have a rock planet within a certain range of its sun. I don’t expect we will ever see anything in our lifetime though.
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cjforJesus
Guest
I do suspect the majority of legitimate encounters are of a demonic nature , and I seriously wonder why a promoter of this “aliens are our creator” theory met with a vatican chief demonologist in 2000.
Perhaps the meeting is just an internet hoax,Can anyone find any reliable sources concerning this alleged meeting besides Sitchins website?
Perhaps the meeting is just an internet hoax,Can anyone find any reliable sources concerning this alleged meeting besides Sitchins website?
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Christiano
Guest
I believe in life on other planets. I believe there may be microscopic life in other places in our Solar System (like Europa, Jupiter’s moon) and intelligent life in planets outside our Solar System. Astronomers have discovered hundreds of exoplanets and I believe (and hope) that it won’t take long for scientists to discover life in a few of these planets. I think saying that God created life only on Earth is wanting to limit the His power.
The fact that the Bible doesn’t say anything about life on other planets doesn’t mean that extraterrestrials don’t exist. The Bible was written by humans (although inspired by God) and for humans. So it doesn’t necessarily means it had to say something about aliens for us to believe in them.
The fact that the Bible doesn’t say anything about life on other planets doesn’t mean that extraterrestrials don’t exist. The Bible was written by humans (although inspired by God) and for humans. So it doesn’t necessarily means it had to say something about aliens for us to believe in them.
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St_Francis
Guest
this is very strange. The priest is not quoted as saying what the thread title says. His statements are all speculative.
I am assuming that the headline was changed in response to this fact…
I am assuming that the headline was changed in response to this fact…
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lao_tzu
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I thought article posts had to have the title of the article in the subject, for this article it is “I’d love to baptize ET, says Vatican astronomer.”
Then the first sentence of the article uses the wording “Intelligent aliens may be living among the stars and likely to have souls…”
That is so different than subject which says that aliens exist and they have souls.
Then the first sentence of the article uses the wording “Intelligent aliens may be living among the stars and likely to have souls…”
That is so different than subject which says that aliens exist and they have souls.
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canadianguy1143
Guest
If he has any evidence that there is life on other planets then I would sure like to see it.
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Bob_Aliano
Guest
I find it hard to believe the Vatican Astronomer would be allowed to advance heresy so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt by thinking he or the translators did a pretty poor job articulating the speculation that, if there is intelligent life on other planets it must have been created by God and therefore would have a soul.
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pnewton
Guest
I noticed this and reported it before I realized it had already been noted. Yes, the title is a mistake.
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Mere ‘sightings’ can never be proven one way or the other.
Now, if they had a ship, or a body…
And bad video on YouTube does not count!
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CharlesVRock
Guest
Well… I am of the belief that yes there are aliens on other worlds out there. And I have to point to the Bible for what, to me, tells me that we are not alone in this universe. In the book of Job… in the very start of the story, God hosts a Sabbath Dinner with ‘The Sons of Man’ when Lucifer shows up for the dinner, God ask why he is there. Lucifer replies that he is the prince of the Earth and has every right like the other ‘sons’ to be there. God goes on to tell him that no… The Earth is not completely his; because of Job… of course you know the rest of the story.
My logic on aliens is this… Where do these other "Sons of Man’ come from? If Lucifer considers himself the prince of this world at that time, thus being a ‘son of man’ representing Earth, then those others must be from other planets in the universe where they are the ‘princes’ of those worlds i.e. Sons of Man…
Others tend to reject my suggestion by saying that humans were/are created in the image of God… yet, we see throughout the bible, God has many images… i.e. The Burning Bush… The Pillar of Fire, the Cloud on the mountaintop during the Transfiguration and so forth… The mystery of God’s wonder and diversity is evident here on our own planet just by the evidence of the varied life forms that exist here. So yes… I do believe that aliens exist and that ‘…in the fullness of time…’, when humanity has matured as a species, we will one day meet our brother ‘sons of man’ out there…
My logic on aliens is this… Where do these other "Sons of Man’ come from? If Lucifer considers himself the prince of this world at that time, thus being a ‘son of man’ representing Earth, then those others must be from other planets in the universe where they are the ‘princes’ of those worlds i.e. Sons of Man…
Others tend to reject my suggestion by saying that humans were/are created in the image of God… yet, we see throughout the bible, God has many images… i.e. The Burning Bush… The Pillar of Fire, the Cloud on the mountaintop during the Transfiguration and so forth… The mystery of God’s wonder and diversity is evident here on our own planet just by the evidence of the varied life forms that exist here. So yes… I do believe that aliens exist and that ‘…in the fullness of time…’, when humanity has matured as a species, we will one day meet our brother ‘sons of man’ out there…
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White_Crow
Guest
I ended up writing a book for you all here. This may be an article in itself.
I LOVE to think about these things all the time!
Here are my thoughts. First off, I have no doubt that God would create intelligent ETs on other planets. He’s a creator after all, and He created an incredible huge universe. Why limit the beauty of His Love and Creation to the small Earth? Echoing what they said in the movie Contact, that’s a lot of beautiful corners of the universe gone to waste…
To think of the possibility of ET’s on other planets and God’s relationship with them, I think we need to turn to other forms of life to just get an idea of how it might work. Here’s my personal formula for God’s love for ET.
First, of course they would have souls like we do! Here are my personal thoughts on souls. Traditionally, we human beings believe we’re the only ones to have God-given souls. However, I am SCARED to DEATH of the idea that our animal companions on the Earth don’t have something in them too. Sure, animals can’t write a musical masterpiece or do algebra, but what if those only define what a human soul is? Like animals and humans have different physiology, why couldn’t their souls–and yes I will say it, souls–be diverse as well? Yet at the same time still flooding with God’s wisdom and beauty? Animals don’t think and feel the same way humans do, but that’s the beauty of God’s wisdom, isn’t it? Animals still have feelings, thoughts, instincts, and they make decisions and react to things. Hence, they must have a perspective–each creature sees inside it’s own head, regardless of the degree of how self-aware it may be in this life. I don’t know what anyone else thinks, but to me that has to make some kind of soul! Also, God doesn’t just think about human beings alone. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says the God thinks about every one of his creatures, not just humans. Like Christ says, even baby sparrows have all of God’s compassion. Yes, I say ALL of His love, because I’m also scared to the death of the idea that God shows partiality in His love for His creation. What if I was a sparrow? Would God limit His love to me? Would He only love me so much? I think not, because God is pure love, and Love isn’t limited in its resources. There’s infinite Love from God to go around for everybody and everything, regardless of how big or small a creature is, or regardless of how much “worth” it is. Also, God is a God of relationships, so surely it’s not only human beings whom he communes with! I believe God has to commune with every creature out there in His love–dolphins, hawks, snakes, fish, Crickets–everything! He loves all his work and wants them to know about him. In the end of times, I would LOVE nothing more than to see the whole living universe see God’s face and know him for everything he is, not just humans.
Now, Christ came to save human beings from our fall. Many say that because God came to Earth as one like ourselves is proof that “we’re it.” The dolphins, hawks, snakes, fish, and crickets or example did not need a savior because they have not fallen. They’re sinless. However, I believe that if that chameleons for example fell, God would go to rescue all of them in some way as well. I also think God has different kinds of relationships with all his diversified creatures so they can connect to Him. What if God is capable of providing different forms of salvation for all his living works should they ever fall? God can do anything! We as limited creatures cannot begin to imagine His possibilities. He’s a God of all good possibilities! What if ET’s who have fallen out there have a different form of God’s salvation? Who knows what beautiful forms God’s Loving salvation can take!?
So that, said, I believe there must be all kinds of forms of life out there of all degrees. Each form of life on other planets has to have God’s infinite love. They must have something inside them, not just empty bodies but some kind of soul as well! They must have a relationship with God in accordance to the beauty of God they reflect. If they have fallen, God must have provided some kind of salvation for them in His mighty and tender love. I believe intelligent ET’s must exist out there!
Now to wrap things up, these ET’s would not be human beings. What I mean by that is, it’s not like the Star Trek Mythos, or even like the Star Wars fantasy. It’s more like ET - The Extraterrestrial or Close Encounters of the Third kind. These ETs come from a whole 'nother planet, are zoologically different from us, and will think differently and feel differently than humans. But they would still be good, would be full of God’s love, have a relationship with God. They may be even more spiritually involved in God than we are. Who knows what brothers and sisters in the Family of Creation we have if God? I speak in the sense of like Saint Francis of Assissi who called members of Creation his brothers and sisters. That being said, I don’t think you can baptize an ET anymore than you can baptize an elephant, but that’s okay. ET wouldn’t be able to initiate humans in their own relationship with God and His Love.
It would seem very clear that God’s universe is colorful, but it’s his Love that is the most basic and most important tie that hold’s all his creatures together!
I LOVE to think about these things all the time!
Here are my thoughts. First off, I have no doubt that God would create intelligent ETs on other planets. He’s a creator after all, and He created an incredible huge universe. Why limit the beauty of His Love and Creation to the small Earth? Echoing what they said in the movie Contact, that’s a lot of beautiful corners of the universe gone to waste…
To think of the possibility of ET’s on other planets and God’s relationship with them, I think we need to turn to other forms of life to just get an idea of how it might work. Here’s my personal formula for God’s love for ET.
First, of course they would have souls like we do! Here are my personal thoughts on souls. Traditionally, we human beings believe we’re the only ones to have God-given souls. However, I am SCARED to DEATH of the idea that our animal companions on the Earth don’t have something in them too. Sure, animals can’t write a musical masterpiece or do algebra, but what if those only define what a human soul is? Like animals and humans have different physiology, why couldn’t their souls–and yes I will say it, souls–be diverse as well? Yet at the same time still flooding with God’s wisdom and beauty? Animals don’t think and feel the same way humans do, but that’s the beauty of God’s wisdom, isn’t it? Animals still have feelings, thoughts, instincts, and they make decisions and react to things. Hence, they must have a perspective–each creature sees inside it’s own head, regardless of the degree of how self-aware it may be in this life. I don’t know what anyone else thinks, but to me that has to make some kind of soul! Also, God doesn’t just think about human beings alone. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says the God thinks about every one of his creatures, not just humans. Like Christ says, even baby sparrows have all of God’s compassion. Yes, I say ALL of His love, because I’m also scared to the death of the idea that God shows partiality in His love for His creation. What if I was a sparrow? Would God limit His love to me? Would He only love me so much? I think not, because God is pure love, and Love isn’t limited in its resources. There’s infinite Love from God to go around for everybody and everything, regardless of how big or small a creature is, or regardless of how much “worth” it is. Also, God is a God of relationships, so surely it’s not only human beings whom he communes with! I believe God has to commune with every creature out there in His love–dolphins, hawks, snakes, fish, Crickets–everything! He loves all his work and wants them to know about him. In the end of times, I would LOVE nothing more than to see the whole living universe see God’s face and know him for everything he is, not just humans.
Now, Christ came to save human beings from our fall. Many say that because God came to Earth as one like ourselves is proof that “we’re it.” The dolphins, hawks, snakes, fish, and crickets or example did not need a savior because they have not fallen. They’re sinless. However, I believe that if that chameleons for example fell, God would go to rescue all of them in some way as well. I also think God has different kinds of relationships with all his diversified creatures so they can connect to Him. What if God is capable of providing different forms of salvation for all his living works should they ever fall? God can do anything! We as limited creatures cannot begin to imagine His possibilities. He’s a God of all good possibilities! What if ET’s who have fallen out there have a different form of God’s salvation? Who knows what beautiful forms God’s Loving salvation can take!?
So that, said, I believe there must be all kinds of forms of life out there of all degrees. Each form of life on other planets has to have God’s infinite love. They must have something inside them, not just empty bodies but some kind of soul as well! They must have a relationship with God in accordance to the beauty of God they reflect. If they have fallen, God must have provided some kind of salvation for them in His mighty and tender love. I believe intelligent ET’s must exist out there!
Now to wrap things up, these ET’s would not be human beings. What I mean by that is, it’s not like the Star Trek Mythos, or even like the Star Wars fantasy. It’s more like ET - The Extraterrestrial or Close Encounters of the Third kind. These ETs come from a whole 'nother planet, are zoologically different from us, and will think differently and feel differently than humans. But they would still be good, would be full of God’s love, have a relationship with God. They may be even more spiritually involved in God than we are. Who knows what brothers and sisters in the Family of Creation we have if God? I speak in the sense of like Saint Francis of Assissi who called members of Creation his brothers and sisters. That being said, I don’t think you can baptize an ET anymore than you can baptize an elephant, but that’s okay. ET wouldn’t be able to initiate humans in their own relationship with God and His Love.
It would seem very clear that God’s universe is colorful, but it’s his Love that is the most basic and most important tie that hold’s all his creatures together!
W
White_Crow
Guest
One more thing, I promise…
As far as UFO’s are concerned, there’s no proof that UFO’s are real (but there is tons of evidence!). I personally believe UFO’s could be ET spaceships, but I acknowledge the fact that I have to be careful about this belief, because it’s not something we KNOW for sure, and anything is possible, and there’s also tons of sensationalism surrounding them. That’s probably why when one person asked Our Blessed Mother in Medjugorie (I know that’s spelled incorrectly, so forgive me:blush if UFO’s were real, she replied, (para-quoting here) “Please don’t ask such questions–I’m not here to sensationalize anything, but to bring Christ to you.” I’m so exited about ET’s visiting us in beautiful and magnificent spaceships, but I do have to be careful.
And speaking of abduction stories, they seem to be the only kind of ET encounter we ever hear about in Hollywood. But not all abduction stories are malicious. I’ve heard of a case where someone claimed to be abducted by ET’s who performed medicine on her and afterward, she was told she had been cured from cancer, a cancer she hadn’t even known about. Rather than all the malevolent abduction stories we see on Hollywood TV, I’m more interested in peaceful encounters. Anyone ever hear of the CE-5 project? They’re a team of ufologists who go out to waves of UFO’s across the world and attempt to establish contact with UFO occupants by flashing high-powered lights at the “spacecraft.” They have some FASCINATING stories to tell about what they have accomplished. Too bad people only seem to be interested in alien experiments and world domination all the time. Incidentally, I don’t think we should teach ourselves to hate aliens. We might make full fledged contact someday and we need to be ready to accept them as God’s creatures too so we can be friends.
As far as UFO’s are concerned, there’s no proof that UFO’s are real (but there is tons of evidence!). I personally believe UFO’s could be ET spaceships, but I acknowledge the fact that I have to be careful about this belief, because it’s not something we KNOW for sure, and anything is possible, and there’s also tons of sensationalism surrounding them. That’s probably why when one person asked Our Blessed Mother in Medjugorie (I know that’s spelled incorrectly, so forgive me:blush
if UFO’s were real, she replied, (para-quoting here) “Please don’t ask such questions–I’m not here to sensationalize anything, but to bring Christ to you.” I’m so exited about ET’s visiting us in beautiful and magnificent spaceships, but I do have to be careful.And speaking of abduction stories, they seem to be the only kind of ET encounter we ever hear about in Hollywood. But not all abduction stories are malicious. I’ve heard of a case where someone claimed to be abducted by ET’s who performed medicine on her and afterward, she was told she had been cured from cancer, a cancer she hadn’t even known about. Rather than all the malevolent abduction stories we see on Hollywood TV, I’m more interested in peaceful encounters. Anyone ever hear of the CE-5 project? They’re a team of ufologists who go out to waves of UFO’s across the world and attempt to establish contact with UFO occupants by flashing high-powered lights at the “spacecraft.” They have some FASCINATING stories to tell about what they have accomplished. Too bad people only seem to be interested in alien experiments and world domination all the time. Incidentally, I don’t think we should teach ourselves to hate aliens. We might make full fledged contact someday and we need to be ready to accept them as God’s creatures too so we can be friends.
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