already downhearted

[otjm]

Another idiotic comment for a priest to make! While mid-50 year old Americans lose their good jobs left and right to the so-called “global economy” and must scramble to learn entirely new careers - it’s insulting for a lazy priest to go out of his way to make the point that he refuses to learn anything he hadn’t learned before reaching some magic unspecified age - by proclaiming that he would serve as an altar boy.

You seem to be presuming that the priest said he either would not or could not learn the rubrics. I took it to mean that at this point in time he did not know it. If it was to be said in the immediate future, all he could do was be the altar boy.

It really helps if we look at what is actually said, and not read into what is said what is not said; when we do the latter, we end of condemning people because of a projection of our own attitude and prejudice rather than theirs.

Lazy? I suspect, if he is like most priest I know now, he is anything but lazy. Most priests I know work something like a 60 to 80 hour work week. I don’t call that lazy, but then again, maybe it is.

Making a point that he won’t learn? Where, in his statement, did he say that? You seem to be reading into his statement an awful lot of information that just isn’t there.

 

[30miller]

You seem to be presuming that the priest said he either would not or could not learn the rubrics. I took it to mean that at this point in time he did not know it. If it was to be said in the immediate future, all he could do was be the altar boy.

It really helps if we look at what is actually said, and not read into what is said what is not said; when we do the latter, we end of condemning people because of a projection of our own attitude and prejudice rather than theirs.

Lazy? I suspect, if he is like most priest I know now, he is anything but lazy. Most priests I know work something like a 60 to 80 hour work week. I don’t call that lazy, but then again, maybe it is.

Making a point that he won’t learn? Where, in his statement, did he say that? You seem to be reading into his statement an awful lot of information that just isn’t there.

Actually, I seem to have read the post correctly as the poster has already responded that “…Yes, our priest is a smart aleck sometime…” to my post.
More specifically - the priest is quoted as saying that “…if the Vatican sends a priest…”. That’s a wise-guy commentary. “The Vatican” doesn’t send priests to parishes on any account - let alone this one. So what’s that all about if not what I took it as. In my wildest imagination I couldn’t conjure up your take on this.
How did you come up with your 60 to 80 hour “work” weeks? I’m curious. Of course, I know you just conjured that up in your own mind as well. If so, you shouldn’t offer it as fact as you do. You should say that it is an assumption on your part. And in that regard, I also think it is important to make the distinction between what priests do as Ministers of the Sacraments (which is what their real job is, though some of them do not seem to really understand that) and what they do with the rest of their time leading committees, managing buildings, etc. Sadly most parishes I visit post 15 to 30 minutes per week for confessions (and please spare me the idea that one can call and make appointments anytime for confession - I know no one who has ever done this and I’m sure that whoever might doesn’t constitute any significant percentage of the faithful whatsoever). So minutes to hear an entire parish’s confessions. (And please check out how the Cure of Ars, Minister of the Sacraments, handled the fact that his parishoners didn’t go to confession when he arrived in Ars).
Add to that no daily masses at most parishes that working people can attend. My parish, which has no school, has a daily mass at 9:00 A.M. Bankers hours - but my question is - for who?
etc. etc. etc.
I suggest you read your own words and apply them to other posters:"…It really helps if we look at what is actually said, and not read into what is said what is not said; when we do the latter, we end of condemning people because of a projection of our own attitude and prejudice rather than theirs…".

 

[otjm]

It seems that confusion reigns again.

There is nothing to say that a parish may not have a Latin Mass celebrated with only one individual desiring it, if there is a priest who knows the rubrics and is familiar with Latin. And prior to Vatican 2, “familiar with Latin” meant at least two years of college Latin (which, by the way, was not exclusively ecclesiastical Latin; it also involved studying Latin classics). To presume, as a few have stated elsewhere, that all the priest has to do is pronounce it correctly simply ignores what the Church has held in the past. And since we are going to do what the Church has done in the past, it is a tad bit unlikely we are going to not hold what the Church has held in the past about that doing.

In fact, there is not even a requirement that there be one parishoner: the only requirement is that the priest be able to say the Mass - i.e. knows Latin and the rubrics - as he can say the Mass privately.

If there are 3, or 4, or 10, or 50, he can still say the Mass privately and they can go to the Mass. As long as it is private, it doesnt matter about the number; it can be 0.

As to a publicly said Mass, the MP does require a stable group; the Pope is a highly intelligent man and I am sure he knew exactly what he was doing by not setting forth either a number or a percentage.

But for those who seem to feel that with 3, one of the regularly scheduled Masses on Sunday can be changed from OF to EF, that flies in the face of the other underlying requirement, and that is that the priest has to meet the needs of all. That includes, like it or not, those who prefer the OF. If the vast majority of the parish prefers the OF, then the greater likelyhood is that either an additional Sunday Mass will have to be added, or several nearby parishes will have to join together. That then comes against another section of Canon law which limits the priest to saying two Masses in a day, and with special permission, three; if the parish is already at that number, then they will have to find another priest.

It may well be that the question is being asked wrong: if people are presuming that with a handful of parishoners that the Sunday Mass schedule is going to be re-arranged, then it is entirely possible that the priest will not have any interest in persuing the matter further. Perhaps it would be wiser if people were to find out a) if the priest could now say the EF - that is, is he qualified; then b) if he is not qualified, is he willing to become so. If he is not, whether it is due to legitimate issues (e.g.time; if he is working 60 to 80 hours a week now, there simply is not time to go somewhere else to learn) or due to he lack of desire to learn, then the next step is to find others in nearby parishes to form a large enough group that they can request the EF.

Simply going up with a minimal number of parishoners wanting what really is a major change - vestments, other articles, altar servers, a trained priest, and for anything beyond a low Mass, a trained choir - is to invite no reaction at all. It really doesn’t matter how we translate a specific Latin word if the rest of the pieces don’t fall into place. Even the Pope, in his letter notes that “it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainlly remain the ordinary form of the Roman Rite, not only on account of judicial norms, but also because of the actual situation of the communities of the faithful”.

I do not suggest that the treatment of those wishing to have the EF, then through indult, was anything even approaching charitable in most places. Some, however, seem to see the MP as mandating that the EF suddenly appear in each an every parish in which any sort of interest arises. It doesn’t. I would suggest that those who feel that way are simply ignoring real-world issues that are pointed out in both the MP and his letter.

Neither, however, does that mean that change cannot be brought about; but if one wants change, then one is going to need to take into account the very real-world issues attendant to the change; stamping one’s feet and proclaiming that it is just “business as usual” without dealing with the real-world implications is akin to the reaction of a child who doesn’t get his way immediately.

I am well aware that there could be, and probably will be, those who will do what they can to thwart any growth of the EF. But presuming that this is always the case ignores what the Pope himself has said, and the very real, practical matters. This change will take time, and even for those who favor it (priests, that is) it will not necessarily fit the timetable of those wanting the EF.

 

[dessert]

okay, so the 14th september should have represented a day where restrictions on the latin mass were lifted and that the mass could be brought into a parish with greater ease, if enough people wanted it there.

Unfortunately, what I am sensing from many of the posts on here is that people are finding it hard to convince their parishes, or priests, that the latin mass is now a regular occurrance, and that it can be allowed. Some people just arent getting the message, even if it came from the Pope!

I’m saying this after discussing with my Priest last sunday that now the motu proprio is in effect, will there be more latin masses in my local area. all he said was he didnt think so, so i told him where the nearest ones were to us, and he said that theyre probably my best bets.

However, i refuse to go to the nearest one, which is 20 miles away (quite far for a mass in England, i know americans see distances differently due to the size of their country, hehe) because the last time I ventured there my car was broken into.

To sum up, I’m sick of the apparent ignorance held by parishoners and Priests over this incredible gift the holy father has bestowed upon us. what can i do, short of screaming from the top of my lungs at a sunday high mass that we are actually allowed to go to a latin mass I mention it to my Priest and he shrugs it off and says ‘go back to the place your car was trashed’, well, effectively. I think its just easier for them to ignore the MP and carry on regardless. Gosh, if there was huge demand in my parish, I honestly dont know what they’d do! Since we are a parish with our priest sent from the Order of St. Benedict, you’d expect them to be rather learned, possibly some of them do speak latin. Just another thought.

Oh im sorry for my rants, i guess its just annoying me right now.

Matt

I guess, you have to decide for yourself if it is worth it to your spirit to travel 20 miles. You would maybe benefit to go once a month, consider how people travel 50 to 100 miles to see a play or a football game. You could consider it an outreach ministry for you as there may be some that would come back to your church, on accasion also. And start with asking for a prayer in Latin or one song once in awhile in latin, I agree with the poster said it will take time. i hope you don’t feel too discouraged for long, God bless you
D.

 

[maryalene]

In defense of our priest, I think he made the comment to be funny but I don’t know that it implies that he would refuse to learn it.

However, I do think it is a real issue that not many priests right now know the TLM. Unless people are beating down the door for them to say it, I doubt many will take the time to learn it. I think if more priests already knew the TLM, the MP would have a much more profound effect.

 

[Pious_Mat]

All we have to do is keep asking and wait, and things will work out.

Why do I say this?

First, not many young men discerning vocations these days (including myself) are interested in learning the novus ordo mass exclusively. Most want to learn both Rites, and an increasing number (to which I belong) couldn’t care less if they ever learned how to say the Novus Ordo.

Also, the most devout people in the Church all seem to be in favour brining back the Tridentine Mass as an equal form of expression of faith to the Novus Ordo.

So who are our opposition? Mostly older people, who were brainwashed during the 1969-70 transition that the new mass is infinitely superior. Also, those priests and Bishops who are opposing the Traditional Mass were typically ordained from 1960-80. Now, this group is typically no younger than 50 years old (that calculation is rather generous one for priests ordained in 1980 who entered the seminary directly out of High School, which was rather rare by then).

This means that the group commonly know as “The Young Fogeys” are going to have leadership positions in the Church within the next 20 years, with some of them rising up slightly before that.

I am positive that 20 years from now, there will be articles in Catholic newspapers with titles like “The Novus Ordo Mass: Will Anyone Come?”

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Another idiotic comment for a priest to make! While mid-50 year old Americans lose their good jobs left and right to the so-called “global economy” and must scramble to learn entirely new careers -

Excuse me, but what does the global economy have to do with Latin Mass and this particular priest? Even if you do think his answer was ‘wrong?’

 

[otjm]

All we have to do is keep asking and wait, and things will work out.

Why do I say this?

First, not many young men discerning vocations these days (including myself) are interested in learning the novus ordo mass exclusively. Most want to learn both Rites, and an increasing number (to which I belong) couldn’t care less if they ever learned how to say the Novus Ordo.

I don’t know what source of information you have as to how many young men don’t want to learn the cuurent Mass rubrics. However, it is going to be a number of years before there are enough people acquainted with both forms of the Mass that any intelligent decision can be made as to who wants what. And until then, I find it extemely interesting that someone would want to avoid learning the form of Mass that better than 99% of the population curently goes to. That is one of the most intriguing comments about their pastoral views and understanding of Canon law I have seen in a while.

Also, the most devout people in the Church all seem to be in favour brining back the Tridentine Mass as an equal form of expression of faith to the Novus Ordo.

That would be correct only if one defines “most devoute” as those approving it. Although there has been some discussion in national Catholic newspapers such as Our Sunday Visitor and National Catholic Register (neither of which I would call liberal), it does not seem to be generating a lot of discussion within many, if not most communities. That may be simply due to the fact that many, if not most people haven’t even heard about it. I don’t doubt that there will be many people who will not have a problem with the EF being offered; but that is not to say that they will come, either. But you are far too enthusiastic about how many people endorse the issue; most simply don’t know anything about it.

So who are our opposition> Mostly older people, who were brainwashed during the 1969-70 transition that the new mass in infinitely superior. Also, those priests and Bishops who are opposing the Traditional Mass were typically ordained from 1960-80. Now, this group is typically no younger than 50 years old (that calculation is rather generous one for priests ordained in 1980 who entered the seminary directly out of High School, which was rather rare by then).

Short of making a validly structured poll taken nationwide, I don’t think you have any idea of who supports what short of your own experiences. Anyone who is 30 has, odds on (simply because of the limited amount of indult Masses nationwide) only seen the OF all of their life. To say that there is any percentage of this group who wants to see either one is pure guessing.

This means that the group commonly know as “The Young Fogeys” are going to have leadership positions in the Church within the next 20 years, with some of them rising up slightly before that.

I am positive that 20 years from now, there will be articles in Catholic newspapers with titles like “The Novus Ordo Mass: Will Anyone Come?”

And you are pretty cocksure of your position. The jury is not out on the issue, because the facts have not yet been developed. Unless and until we have priests who can say the EF (and even the pope acknowledges there are not many), it will not be possible to even begin to make any valid estimations as to who wants what. Anything else is simply daydreaming supported by only miniscule information.

I have no doubt that once the EF is available, there will be people attending (once the newness of the form has died down) who right now have little or no idea if that is what they would want. How many only time will tell. However, in your zeal for the EF, you might want to consider that there 18,584 parishes, give or take a few, and there are probably not 100 that have had the indult (and I do not suggest that others would not have wanted it). That is a little over 5 tenths of 1 percent. You may think that in 20 years, there will be titles in the news as you suggest. You may also thing the moon is made of green cheese.

Maybe both are right. But .5%, even granted that the indult was not allowed in some dioceses is an interesting statistic. You might also recall that some of the indult parishes have only 1 Mass on Sunday under the EF, and if I recall what I read, some may only offer it every other Sunday. A tad bit of a way to go before there are any headlines as you suggest.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

All we have to do is keep asking and wait, and things will work out.

Why do I say this?

First, not many young men discerning vocations these days (including myself) are interested in learning the novus ordo mass exclusively. Most want to learn both Rites, and an increasing number (to which I belong) couldn’t care less if they ever learned how to say the Novus Ordo.

Also, the most devout people in the Church all seem to be in favour brining back the Tridentine Mass as an equal form of expression of faith to the Novus Ordo.

So who are our opposition? Mostly older people, who were brainwashed during the 1969-70 transition that the new mass is infinitely superior. Also, those priests and Bishops who are opposing the Traditional Mass were typically ordained from 1960-80. Now, this group is typically no younger than 50 years old (that calculation is rather generous one for priests ordained in 1980 who entered the seminary directly out of High School, which was rather rare by then).

This means that the group commonly know as “The Young Fogeys” are going to have leadership positions in the Church within the next 20 years, with some of them rising up slightly before that.

I am positive that 20 years from now, there will be articles in Catholic newspapers with titles like “The Novus Ordo Mass: Will Anyone Come?”

If this is your attitude to older people, not to mention a legitimate Mass of the Church, then I for one hope you closely re-examine any ideas you have as to what the priesthood entails. We don’t need priests who are dismissive of people and we don’t need priests who disparge the Church’s disciplines, either “liberals” or “conservatives.”

And devoutness and orthodoxy are NOT exclusive to the EF. The OF has been offered by four popes now and only very real extremists have questioned their orthodoxy.

 

[30miller]

All we have to do is keep asking and wait, and things will work out.

Why do I say this?

First, not many young men discerning vocations these days (including myself) are interested in learning the novus ordo mass exclusively. Most want to learn both Rites, and an increasing number (to which I belong) couldn’t care less if they ever learned how to say the Novus Ordo.

Also, the most devout people in the Church all seem to be in favour brining back the Tridentine Mass as an equal form of expression of faith to the Novus Ordo.

So who are our opposition? Mostly older people, who were brainwashed during the 1969-70 transition that the new mass is infinitely superior. Also, those priests and Bishops who are opposing the Traditional Mass were typically ordained from 1960-80. Now, this group is typically no younger than 50 years old (that calculation is rather generous one for priests ordained in 1980 who entered the seminary directly out of High School, which was rather rare by then).

This means that the group commonly know as “The Young Fogeys” are going to have leadership positions in the Church within the next 20 years, with some of them rising up slightly before that.

I am positive that 20 years from now, there will be articles in Catholic newspapers with titles like “The Novus Ordo Mass: Will Anyone Come?”

Though a lot of what you say is on target and though I happen to be on your side of this issue - I think you vastly underestimate the opposition. Your 20 year prediction has no hope whatever of coming true (though I wish it would).
And though your use of the word brainwashed may or may not be accurate - that generation is certainly as a group brain-dead in matters of the faith. (And I happen to be of that age myself).

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Though a lot of what you say is on target and though I happen to be on your side of this issue - I think you vastly underestimate the opposition. Your 20 year prediction has no hope whatever of coming true (though I wish it would).
And though your use of the word brainwashed may or may not be accurate - that generation is certainly as a group brain-dead in matters of the faith. (And I happen to be of that age myself).

Then they need to be evangelized and cathechized, not dismissed and certainly NOT disrespected by younger people who have not lived as long. I was taught respect for elders in two ways: BY my elders and by LIFE ITSELF. I found out my parents and grandparents weren’t as dumb as I imagined them to be when I was a teen-ager.

 

[30miller]

Excuse me, but what does the global economy have to do with Latin Mass and this particular priest? Even if you do think his answer was ‘wrong?’

It has to do with most all 50 year olds having to learn new things despite their age and that a wisecrack like that is insulting to those on the other side of the altar rail (whoops, sorry - I should say where the altar rail used to be) who are contributing their hard-“learn-new-things-past-age-50”-earned treasure to the welfare of this “I will learn nothing new” claiming priest.

 

[30miller]

I have no doubt that once the EF is available, there will be people attending (once the newness of the form has died down) who right now have little or no idea if that is what they would want. How many only time will tell. However, in your zeal for the EF, you might want to consider that there 18,584 parishes, give or take a few, and there are probably not 100 that have had the indult (and I do not suggest that others would not have wanted it). That is a little over 5 tenths of 1 percent. You may think that in 20 years, there will be titles in the news as you suggest. You may also thing the moon is made of green cheese.

Maybe both are right. But .5%, even granted that the indult was not allowed in some dioceses is an interesting statistic. You might also recall that some of the indult parishes have only 1 Mass on Sunday under the EF, and if I recall what I read, some may only offer it every other Sunday. A tad bit of a way to go before there are any headlines as you suggest.

Your “statistical” approach only proves the old statement that one can say anything with statistics.
The whole reason there is a Motu Proprio on this issue to begin with is the radical behavior of the bishops in refusing to cooperate with JPII’s “collegial request” for them to do so. The radical bishops have denied and minimalized the indult for a quarter of a century. So any statistics only reflect what they made occur. The statistics have nothing whatsoever to do with reflecting the interest in the EF by either the faithful or priests during that period. Your 0.5%, if that is “accurate” in any sense, only reflects how dramatically successful the radical bishops have been in suppressing what Pope Benedict has just confirmed in his MP and accompanying letter to the Bishops (and released for publication to the faithful as well, think about why he had to do that for a minute) - the EF was never abrogated to begin with. It was always valid.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

It has to do with most all 50 year olds having to learn new things despite their age and that a wisecrack like that is insulting to those on the other side of the altar rail (whoops, sorry - I should say where the altar rail used to be) who are contributing their hard-“learn-new-things-past-age-50”-earned treasure to the welfare of this “I will learn nothing new” claiming priest.

But the priest didn’t say that.

 

[ElizabethPH]

okay, so the 14th september should have represented a day where restrictions on the latin mass were lifted and that the mass could be brought into a parish with greater ease, if enough people wanted it there.

Unfortunately, what I am sensing from many of the posts on here is that people are finding it hard to convince their parishes, or priests, that the latin mass is now a regular occurrance, and that it can be allowed. Some people just arent getting the message, even if it came from the Pope!

I’m saying this after discussing with my Priest last sunday that now the motu proprio is in effect, will there be more latin masses in my local area. all he said was he didnt think so, so i told him where the nearest ones were to us, and he said that theyre probably my best bets.

However, i refuse to go to the nearest one, which is 20 miles away (quite far for a mass in England, i know americans see distances differently due to the size of their country, hehe) because the last time I ventured there my car was broken into.

To sum up, I’m sick of the apparent ignorance held by parishoners and Priests over this incredible gift the holy father has bestowed upon us. what can i do, short of screaming from the top of my lungs at a sunday high mass that we are actually allowed to go to a latin mass I mention it to my Priest and he shrugs it off and says ‘go back to the place your car was trashed’, well, effectively. I think its just easier for them to ignore the MP and carry on regardless. Gosh, if there was huge demand in my parish, I honestly dont know what they’d do! Since we are a parish with our priest sent from the Order of St. Benedict, you’d expect them to be rather learned, possibly some of them do speak latin. Just another thought.

Oh im sorry for my rants, i guess its just annoying me right now.

Matt

I’ve asked in my parish as well, and all though the priest has no objections to a TLM he himself could not do one; as he is already overwhelmed. He would not object to another priest coming in to do it. The closest TLM where I am is 114 miles round trip…it has to be an overnite trip and am going in a couple of weeks. There is a camp ground near by so it makes a nice week-end camping trip. Oh only if it was just a 40 miles round trip. I would go all the time!! There is an interest in a parish close by but I’m not sure the status of if and have not contacted anyone from that parish yet. The diocese here in this state…is all for it and is doing all it can to educate priests.

I was a little discouraged as well, but I have hope. This will all take time and won’t happen overnite. Keep the faith.

 

[30miller]

But the priest didn’t say that.

Of course he did - try reading the post for comprehension. When in your life have you ever heard a pastor declare that the Vatican should send a priest into his parish? When? When have you ever heard a pastor “offer” to be an altar boy for some travelling priest? When? Perhaps you can more easily get ahold of the word “facetious” than “wiseguy”. Either way, it amounts to the same thing. It was completely inappropriate. Try getting the meta-message. There’s no doubt what that is.
And as the only person posting here who actually knows this priest subsequently posted : “Yes, our priest is a smart aleck sometime…”.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Of course he did - try reading the post for comprehension. When in your life have you ever heard a pastor declare that the Vatican should send a priest into his parish? When? When have you ever heard a pastor “offer” to be an altar boy for some travelling priest? When? Perhaps you can more easily get ahold of the word “facetious” than “wiseguy”. Either way, it amounts to the same thing. It was completely inappropriate. Try getting the meta-message. There’s no doubt what that is.
And as the only person posting here who actually knows this priest subsequently posted : “Yes, our priest is a smart aleck sometime…”.

My own priest. Our former pastoral administrator, in this time of a priest shortage and in an effort to save on bills, wanted to consolidate the daily masses. We had one at 6:30, which was very sparsely attended and one at 8:00, which drew more people. He announced at each of those masses that one of the two would have to go and he allowed the attendees to vote on which one we’d keep. The 8:00 o’clock Mass won. One of the 6:30 attendees indignantly told the priest that the pope said we were supposed to have Mass more often, not less (no citation for this was provided). Our priest, who was also the diocesan vocations director (they often wear more than one hat), said in exasperation,“Then you tell the pope to come and say the Mass.” So yes, I’ve heard it. And I don’t think the “meta message” was necessarily what you interpret it as being. I thought it was obvious that he didn’t know how to say the Latin Mass. The fact that he was willing to serve as an altar “boy” (priests frequently help in the offering of the Mass) indicates a possible willingness to learn. So, contrary to your assertion, there is some doubt.

 

[Cat]

How will an insurgence of converts from evangelical and other sects of Protestantism influence which Mass is offered the most?

As long as we are making predictions here, I would like to add that I truly believe that in the next twenty years, the Catholic Church will welcome thousands and tens of thousands of evangelicals and other Protestants who have been led home by the Holy Spirit, through the faithfulness of the prayers of many Catholics, and the expertise of Catholic apologists and evangelists. I think that the life issues are going to be a “line in the dirt” for many Protestants who will abandon their “pro-death” anti-Biblical fellowships and become Catholic.

I can only speak for myself and my husband. We will obey the Pope because he is the Vicar of Jesus Christ; if he establishes the TLM as the only valid, licit Mass in the Catholic Church, we will attend and rejoice in the privilege of attending Mass and receiving Holy Eucharist.

But as long as there is a choice, we would prefer a Mass in our own heart language, which happens to be English.

We also prefer contemporary hymns rather than classical music and chant. Again, if the Pope declares that this kind of music is no longer allowed in Masses, we would respect our Pope and bring ourselves into line with his decree.

I think that most Protestants would feel the same we do about Masses in foreign languages, although my only basis for this opinion is the fact that I worked and worshipped and sometimes even played with Protestants for 47 years.

 

[4HisChurch]

I think you make an excellent point. America is a very Protestant country. Protestantism has greatly influenced worship in this country.

Although I tend to be a traditionalist and really love chant, incense and bells, I am beginning to become more comfortable with some of the (for lack of a better term) “post Vatican II” changes.

I think, as long as we stay within the teachings of the Catholic Church in our Masses (and there are some “modern” hymns that do NOT) there is room for things like the vernacular language and some more modern music in the Mass. It is the extremism of some that has driven others away completely (or nearly completely) from the Ordinary Form of the Mass.

Just my opinion.

 

[otjm]

Though a lot of what you say is on target and though I happen to be on your side of this issue - I think you vastly underestimate the opposition. Your 20 year prediction has no hope whatever of coming true (though I wish it would).
And though your use of the word brainwashed may or may not be accurate - that generation is certainly as a group brain-dead in matters of the faith. (And I happen to be of that age myself).

And what you don’t get is that it isn’t opposition. You may not like the OF, but it is the Mass. Just as much as the Divine Mysteries are the Mass, and the EF is the Mass. With the attitude you have, I suspect that you would not have liked what the Mass looked like in the early Church.

Anyone who has decided that those of a certain age are brain dead in matters of faith has a seriously judgemental attitude. If you want to play a “holier than thou” card, go play it somewhere else.

One does not have to be “opposed” to the EF to prefer the OF, any more than one does not have to be opposed" to prefer the EF to the OF. There are some in both camps who are opposed to the other form of the Mass, but for most people, it seems to come down to a preferance. Triumphalism from either camp is totally unnecessary.

Oh, and by the way, our parish has the OF; we have a very active social action group of volunteers, an active pro-life group, one priest, our pastor who is well into his 70’s, an assistant who is 81 and will be going on mission to Belize at the end of the month (and no replacment in sight), and 24 houyr perpetual adoration which has been going for well over 10 years. And with one priest saying 3 Masses Sunday day and the great majority of the parish preferring the OF (and they go to perpetual adoration), the likelyhood of our getting the EF as a practical matter on Sunday is rather small. They are not in opposition to it; they just prefer the OF. But I guess they are all spiritually brain dead.

And lest I not make myself clear, we have a very healthy percentage of young people; they are having children and were the driving force behind our building a grade school recently.