Am I being a jerk about chastity?

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Ophelia23 said:
Only you can decide on this one. If it is a deal breaker for you, then you certainly don’t need to adjust that.

For what it’s worth, though, I saved myself for marriage. When I started dating my now husband, I found that he not only had a sexual past but what I perceived to be a very sordid past. After he opened up to me and gently explained what he had done, my heart hurt so deeply with regret, with betrayal (even though he didn’t know me at the time!), with absolute pain… But I will tell you this. I prayed long and I prayed hard, and I still came to the conclusion that this was the man I was called to marry. Not to fix him, not to change him, but to embrace him. To allow him to embrace me. To make peace with that which can not be undone. I didn’t settle. I just didn’t give up on him when my initial reaction was to run as fast as I could.
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Exactly. Pray, pray, pray. Try to discern what God wants you to do. That’s what matters. Losing your virginity is a big deal, but she did exactly the right thing afterwards. She repented and stopped sinning. I would keep talking to her and keep praying. But do not punish her for this. She’s probably suffered a great deal of anguish over this already. She doesn’t need more anguish for something she’s done her best to make right.
 
Flamepoint said:
New here and looking for some honest advice. I am 29 years old and very interested in getting married within the next couple of years. So far I have worked hard to obtain a Masters degree and an excellent job so that I am fully prepared to start a family financially, educationally and spiritually. I am one of five kids, and all my siblings are married including my little sister. So I am really only looking to seriously date for a potential marriage.

About four months ago I started dating a girl who is a Masters student at the college where I work. She is 25 years old. She’s pretty, funny, smart, comes from a good family and is very religious. I really like her. I think she would make a good mom and wife from what I know so far. We are totally on the same page as far as faith goes - we are both practicing and active Catholics.

Here’s the problem. After four months of pretty serious dating, I told her that I liked her very much and could see a future with her. I told her how glad I was that I’d saved myself for marriage, too. Unfortunately she took that time to tell me that she had had sex with a boyfriend when she was a senior in high school, 7 years ago. She told me that they were both Catholics, cared for one another very deeply, caved to temptation on about 5 occasions and then both went to confession and agreed to continue ahead chastely. When they left for college the relationship ended and she said she has fully repented of her sins and has been chaste for 7 years and intends to not have any more sex until marriage.

Okay, I was shocked. I never thought I would marry an experienced woman who gave her body to anothwr guy. I get that people mess up, but the thought of my wife having been with another man grosses me out big time. I told her I was really hurt that ahe had given away her virginity so easily and I have not called her since Sunday.

I know she’s embarrassed and hurt and probably thought I would say it was not a big deal, but it is. She won’t ever be able to give me the gift of her virginity and yet I have held out. She’s a great girl in every other way except she lost her virtue. I don’t want to be a jerk or have too high of expectations. I just don’t know if this should be a dead breaker or if I am passing up a great woman who simply made a mistake when she was a kid.

Can I get over this? Should I? Is she fit to be a mother if she can’t honestly say she waited for her husband? I know the Lord says to forgive but He also says to use good judgment.
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Buddy you have to let go. I am a Catholic in action and I am discerning priesthood. I am 18. I kept my virginity til the beginning of this year and did the same thing. I immediately started crying in front of her for about 15 minutes, later told my dad, then went to confession the next day. You have to understand that she didn’t have to make the decision back then. I never intended to lose my virginity. The fingers point to Satan. Satan has his ways in hiding in the shadows. I would ask you to not push her away. You never know… you could raise a great family with her and Satan doesn’t that so he puts you in dispair.

God Bless You bud. I’ll pray for you.
-TJ
 
You are a man of faith, so you must know that if she has confessed her sin and been absolved, that sin is gone…obliterated…she is “spiritually” a virgin even if she isn’t in the physical sense. It is very, very, very commendable that you have kept yourself pure all of these years - but that is ultimately between you and God and He will reward you for your sacrifice. We are called to forgive others in the same way in which we would like God to forgive us. Keep in mind the words of the Psalmist:
…far as the east is from the west, he clears away our guilt from us. (Psalm 102:12, Knox)
 
Flamepoint said:
It’s hard for me. I don’t want to be a jerk but I’ve been told my whole life how important it is to save yourself for marriage. And I’ve worked hard at that. Now I’m being asked to let that expectation go, and I mean some things you can’t take back. I do really care for this woman and she is a great person in every other way. It just seems hard to give someone a pass after being told how critical chastity is. I do appreciate the frank feedback. I am not a mean person and want to do what is right long term.
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I’ve noticed a lot of red flags in your wording. The phrase “give someone a pass” sticks out in this particular post. You should not be giving anyone a “pass”, you should be facing the facts, forgiving the past and moving forward (whether that means pursuing marriage or parting ways); not offering a complimentary blind eye.

Let me be extremely blunt and hopefully not too graphic. Have you ever lusted after a girl? Had impure thoughts? Masturbated? If you’ve done any of these things, then you’ve not been perfectly chaste yourself.

I don’t know you so I can’t and won’t rush to any judgment, but I would like to ask you to consider whether alot of this indignation you’re feeling has more to do with insecurity than moral standards. For instance, perhaps you’re subconsciously afraid you won’t measure up or maybe you simply just can’t overcome some sense of jealousy. Whatever it is, you need to honestly assess your feelings and explain them well to her and figure out what to do. If you can’t move beyond the resentment, then it might be best to step aside.

My personal opinion–yes, it’s disappointing that you won’t be her first and only, but you know what? This isn’t heaven and neither life nor any of the people you’ll meet in it are perfect. Everyone has made big mistakes and most if not everyone has equally big regrets. And sexual temptation is, for most people, a major struggle, especially in the teen years. In all likelihood, she views that time in her life with shame and regret; in my opinion, the attitude you’re taking towards it is probably just compounding it.

If you can’t handle it, explain to her that it’s your hangup. Don’t make her feel like she’s a failure for it and definitely don’t avoid and ignore her.

I hope these few thoughts of mine don’t come across too harsh or offensive, but I do wish you the best and I hope you and your girlfriend can work this out. You’ll be in my prayers.
 
Flamepoint,

When I was about your age, I came to the conclusion that the woman I would eventually marry may have fallen into sexual sin. I think the big revelation to me was how badly I had sinned before in sexual matters. It is not limited only to losing one’s virginity. Pornography, masturbation, fantasies, sexting and other faults are equally violations against chastity.

I decided to accept that as long as she was pursuing chastity, as I was, that would be enough.
 
My wife and I both had, shall we say, colorful pasts. Both had been previously married, and we both learned very hard lessons about why God expects chastity. When we started dating we waited until marriage and it has been great.

Technically she did not sin against you, since you were not married or even dating. Her sin was against God alone.

Unfortunately, finding a woman around your age who has not had sex is going to be very difficult for you, and most think nothing of it and she seems to be a good catch.

Get over it.
 
Flamepoint said:
It’s hard for me. I don’t want to be a jerk but I’ve been told my whole life how important it is to save yourself for marriage. And I’ve worked hard at that. Now I’m being asked to let that expectation go, and I mean some things you can’t take back. I do really care for this woman and she is a great person in every other way. It just seems hard to give someone a pass after being told how critical chastity is. I do appreciate the frank feedback. I am not a mean person and want to do what is right long term.
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Dude, if it is Gods will that you marry the girl, then you should. However, you saved yourself, she didn’t. You should probable be with someone who has saved themselves
 
I am in agreement with the more amiable comments you’ve received here and I wish some had been less harsh towards you.

I’d like to urge you to talk to her soon. Communication is so very important to any relationship and even if you decide that marriage with her is not what you want she deserves to be treated fairly and with love and compassion. Think of how hard it must have been for her to tell you. She was honest and did what was right… she deserves the same.

I refer you to 1 Corinthians 13 and prescribe humility, gentleness and compassion as you proceed.

May God bless you both.
 
Yes, you are being, I think, overly judgmental about it. She confessed this, it’s been forgiven. She was really under no obligation to even tell you about it. If God can forgive her so can you.

But–she deserves a husband who will never ever bring this up again. The past is past. If you can’t put it behind you, you are not the man for her.
 
Let me tell you about my own vanity. Back in college, I chatted with a girl on the internet. Made arrangements to visit, and it was after this arrangement was made that she sent a pic. She was a little big. Upon direct questioning, I forget what I said exactly, but it was something like well, you are a little big, I don’t know if I have a physical attraction. (What I really said was probably less tactful, but I do remember not being a jerk about, just not being Prince Charming either.)

Anyhow, this happened a few days before the meeting was scheduled. How I did this is not important, but I spent those days changing my internal sociatally imprinted ideas of attractiveness of the female form. It worked, I got there and she was really cute. And I may as well have been visiting an ice statue because I’d already messed up and killed anything that might have happened.

So, you need to be ready that she is done with you. But I think you should ask her forgiveness for throwing her pearl of self history into the mud and stepping on it from how you reacted. Maybe you can explain that you were shocked and want to change your attitudes. Maybe she’ll talk with you again. (This was exactly literal.) Maybe she will ask you to forever leave her alone. Whatever happens, you need to be aware that you have likely wounded her deeply.

One other thing to learn from this which is critical and I sometimes think that only 5 people on the planet know how to do this (I am not one of those five), learn to disengage your mouth when you are surprised by something. If you are asked about an ensuing awkward silence, you can usually get away with something like, “I’m sorry, this is new for me and I’m still processing.” But definitely do not say anything substantive until you’ve had time to think about things.
 
I don’t think the OP is overreacting–I think some of the responses are over the top.

Totally disagree with those who said what she did is only between her and God and was not obligated to say anything. That would be dishonest. Any sexual sin that one does prior to marriage affects the spouse. In Proverbs 31, a good wife does her husband good ALL the days of her life so that includes before they meet. A good husband should do the same. Just one example, let’s say a man has multiple sexual partners prior to marriage and contracts the HPV virus and passes it to his wife. Now her risk of genital warts and cervical cancer are due to the sins committed prior to marriage.

Sexual sin is a BIG deal. We all know there are temporal effects of sins so let’s stop pretending. OP has the right to want to marry a virgin (and NO having committed masturbation in the past is not equivalent to losing one’s virginity so don’t even go there). He should realize that there are less virgins to choose from. We need to reinstate the value of virginity instead of just slapping a band aid on the problem and say, well no one should expect a virgin and it’s good enough that it was only one guy.

I think it’s weird that when people say they prefer a virgin others get offended. If people can be totally superficial about who they date based on hair, skin and eye color or body type, why not be choosy regarding virginity?

I think the OP could have treated the young lady more charitably but I’m not going to slam him if this is a deal breaker.
 
catholicmamajoy said:
The comments you feel are using an overly aggressive tone might have something to do with the fact he questioned if she’d be a fit mother because she had sex with her then-boyfriend, seven years ago, as a teenager, and has thus repented and been chaste ever since. He also stated she has lost her virtue. His understanding of virtue is quite narrow-sighted. Virtue is a trait and characteristic that goes far, far beyond having had sex before marriage and from what he has said about her and how she’s lived her life after the high school boyfriend mistake, it sounds like she’s quite virtuous. He has two choices he can make…either admit her lack of viginity (although God has forgiven her) is a deal-breaker or he can make the decision to love her unconditionally, as this young women may very well be the one Christ has chosen for him.
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My point was that people seem to ignore the fact that it had been 3 or 4 days (?) since he found this out. While I don’t agree with his conclusions I know I would have been in shock had my wife told me something like this.

It’s sad to me that so many are like “so what” and are angry that his perceptions of her have changed. It generally takes some time and reflection when someone drops a bomb shell on you. Would people have been so quick to brush it off if she had said she had had 5 partners before? How about 10? What if she had said she was a recovering alcoholic or cocaine addict? How about if she had revealed that she tortured animals in her past, but has confessed and been absolved?

The point is that we all have things that are deal breakers. I accidently walked in on a conversation between my wife and a couple of her girlfriends. One of them was asking about their “numbers”. She said she had had sex with 12 or 14 guys in college (she couldn’t remember off the top of her head). I can guarantee that news like that would certainly have been a deal breaker for me. This woman thought it was quaint when my wife said “one, and he’s right there.” As I was heading down the hallway upstairs I heard he say something like “he’s gone so tell me the real number.”

As a society we have just come to expect that everyone has had multiple partners and deride people that have a desire or expectation to be their partner’s only.

I think that he could have been more charitable, but that is no excuse for the pilling on that so many here did.
 
GraceUnderFire said:
I don’t think the OP is overreacting–I think some of the responses are over the top.

Totally disagree with those who said what she did is only between her and God and was not obligated to say anything. That would be dishonest. Any sexual sin that one does prior to marriage affects the spouse. In Proverbs 31, a good wife does her husband good ALL the days of her life so that includes before they meet. A good husband should do the same. Just one example, let’s say a man has multiple sexual partners prior to marriage and contracts the HPV virus and passes it to his wife. Now her risk of genital warts and cervical cancer are due to the sins committed prior to marriage.

Sexual sin is a BIG deal. We all know there are temporal effects of sins so let’s stop pretending. OP has the right to want to marry a virgin (and NO having committed masturbation in the past is not equivalent to losing one’s virginity so don’t even go there). He should realize that there are less virgins to choose from. We need to reinstate the value of virginity instead of just slapping a band aid on the problem and say, well no one should expect a virgin and it’s good enough that it was only one guy.

I think it’s weird that when people say they prefer a virgin others get offended. If people can be totally superficial about who they date based on hair, skin and eye color or body type, why not be choosy regarding virginity?

I think the OP could have treated the young lady more charitably but I’m not going to slam him if this is a deal breaker.
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👍. Exactly.

His attitude and conclusions might need realigning, but treating him like an idiot for wanting to marry a virgin is a sad reflection on those that just shrug and say get over it. We should all be offended by the general attitude that premarital sex is ok and normal.
 
Usige said:
👍. Exactly.

His attitude and conclusions might need realigning, but treating him like an idiot for wanting to marry a virgin is a sad reflection on those that just shrug and say get over it. We should all be offended by the general attitude that premarital sex is ok and normal.
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No one is saying it’s “ok and normal.” We’re saying it’s extremely common. Yes, chastity is extremely important but having lost one’s virginity does not make one irreparably damaged goods. Everyone makes mistakes.

Pre-marital sex is a grave sin, but it’s not mass murder.

In Dante’s Inferno, sexual sins are among the least grievous because they are sins of vulnerability; they extend from a very real need for connection and intimacy. The worst sins are those of pride, to which I am tempted to say this whole issue borders very close.

Honestly, it sounds alot to me like a case of wounded pride. We want things one way; we set up ideals in our mind and when people fail to meet them we become upset. If this woman has really changed and is as great a girl as the OP makes it sound, then the fact that she is not a virgin should not be a deal breaker, in my opinion. The good seems to far outweigh the bad in this case. It’s not as though she’s had some kind of recklessly promiscuous past.

The sad fact is that, nowadays, due to the culture we live in as well as the natural temptation, it is very easy to fall into sexual sin and, in fact, it pretty much takes a heroic effort not to (and kudos to the OP for managing it.) It would be lovely if that weren’t the case, but this isn’t Eden and we have all fallen.

And OP, perhaps the best thing you could do is find a very good priest to talk to, rather than listening to our two sides arguing back and forth.
 
Is flamepoint still around?

I think if he really loved her he would be able to forgive and look past her past to their future together. Seems to me like he’s looking for an excuse to get out of it.

And what kind of frame of mind is she in now? After she “confessed” to him and he flipped out?
 
on_the_hill said:
Is flamepoint still around?

I think if he really loved her he would be able to forgive and look past her past to their future together. Seems to me like he’s looking for an excuse to get out of it.

And what kind of frame of mind is she in now? After she “confessed” to him and he flipped out?
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No, I believe if he truly loved HER, he would grieve for the wounded part of herself, and love her all the more for what she has been through.
 
Usige said:
My point was that people seem to ignore the fact that it had been 3 or 4 days (?) since he found this out. While I don’t agree with his conclusions I know I would have been in shock had my wife told me something like this.

It’s sad to me that so many are like “so what” and are angry that his perceptions of her have changed. It generally takes some time and reflection when someone drops a bomb shell on you. Would people have been so quick to brush it off if she had said she had had 5 partners before? How about 10? What if she had said she was a recovering alcoholic or cocaine addict? How about if she had revealed that she tortured animals in her past, but has confessed and been absolved?

The point is that we all have things that are deal breakers. I accidently walked in on a conversation between my wife and a couple of her girlfriends. One of them was asking about their “numbers”. She said she had had sex with 12 or 14 guys in college (she couldn’t remember off the top of her head). I can guarantee that news like that would certainly have been a deal breaker for me. This woman thought it was quaint when my wife said “one, and he’s right there.” As I was heading down the hallway upstairs I heard he say something like “he’s gone so tell me the real number.”

As a society we have just come to expect that everyone has had multiple partners and deride people that have a desire or expectation to be their partner’s only.

I think that he could have been more charitable, but that is no excuse for the pilling on that so many here did.
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Everybody has deal-breakers. But this girl told him this, he responded by telliing her he was disappointed that she “gave herself away so easily”, and HASN’T SPOKEN TO HER SINCE. Come on. Poor girl.
 
I am curious, as this is the second thread I see this in… why do so many people refer to Dante as if he was a source of solid Catholic theology, specifically on the topic of sexual sins? Didn’t our Lady of Fatima make reference to the large amount of people in hell because of sins of flesh (which includes premarital sex)? I am not talking about this young lady who has clearly repented and is following through with her resolution to avoid this sin, but I am talking to the general idea that keeps showing up in these threads that sexual sins are among the lightest type of sins because of this or that?
 
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