Am I too jealous of his ex? Please help

[Sir_Knight]

wabrams:

It’s unacceptable to tell applepie that he wants to consider marrying her, but wants to constantly pal around with his ex. You don’t do it for the same reasons you don’t continue to buy cigarettes everyday after you quit: it’s you too tempting to light up, whether it’s a smoke or an old fling.

We’re not talking about a pack of cigarettes but about a friendship which developed during a romantic relationship. The romantic relationship fell apart but the friendship remained. Why should he be required to discard a friendship? Good friends don’t exactly grow on trees.

Now, when applepie becomes his fiancee, then he needs to factor her feelings into the equation but it is unrealistic and unfair to ask him to do so before that.

 

[SemperJase]

Sir Knight:

Why should he be required to discard a friendship? Good friends don’t exactly grow on trees.

Because men and women are not built to be “just friends”.
Sir Knight:

Now, when applepie becomes his fiancee, then he needs to factor her feelings into the equation but it is unrealistic and unfair to ask him to do so before that

Not unfair when they have agreed not to date anyone else. He made this agreement and then continues to date someone else claiming he doesn’t have any feelings for her. His actions are contradicting his words. Not only that, his actions portray a closeness to his supposedly ex-girlfriend.

Of course it is fair to hold him to his agreement. If he wants to date other women (i.e. his ex-gf) as well as applepie, he should say so.

 

[Sir_Knight]

SemperJase:

Because men and women are not built to be “just friends”.

Based on personal experience, I disagree. I have female friends that I have known for years and there has never been anything romantic enter into the picture.

SemperJase:

Not unfair when they have agreed not to date anyone else. He made this agreement and then continues to date someone else claiming he doesn’t have any feelings for her.

From what was posted, he is not romanticly seeing his ex-girlfriend. So what is the problem?

SemperJase:

His actions are contradicting his words.

Where?

SemperJase:

his actions portray a closeness to his supposedly ex-girlfriend.

And what is the problem?

SemperJase:

Of course it is fair to hold him to his agreement.

He is keeping his agreement – he is not romanticly seeing anyone else.

SemperJase:

If he wants to date other women (i.e. his ex-gf) as well as applepie, he should say so.

He has. He hasn’t kept this a secret from her.
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Folks, let’s remember that we are talking about a boyfriend and a girlfriend here. We’re not talking about a husband seeing an ex-girlfriend or even a fiance seeing an ex-girlfriend. We’re talking about a boyfriend seeing an ex-girlfriend.

If is was a husband or a fiance, I would be in complete agreement with what you are saying but not when it comes to a boyfriend.

 

[MarkNoonan]

I don’t think it will work - if this other lady is someone he feels he must talk intimately to, even to the exclusion of the person he’s at least somewhat committed to, then he is still involved with the other lady.

You could find yourself dating this man for quite some time only to find that, in the end, he chooses the other lady…

You have to decide what period of life you are in - if you are seeking to be on a marriage-track (you know, like you’d like to be married within 2 to 5 years), then dating a man who is unsure of which woman he’d like to be with isn’t your best option.

Better to gently let him know that you want exclusivity and if he’s not ready to provide it, then you’d better go your separate ways.

 

[SemperJase]

Sir Knight:

Based on personal experience, I disagree. I have female friends that I have known for years and there has never been anything romantic enter into the picture.

If that is true you are an exception to the rule. Men and women are made so that they are attracted to the opposite sex. Not all men will be attracted to all women, but the tendancy of sexual attraction is inherent.

Just curious, are you married?
Sir Knight:

From what was posted, he is not romanticly seeing his ex-girlfriend. So what is the problem?

He says he is not romantically seeing her. His actions and human nature cast doubts on his words. Given that men and women are built to be attracted and these two specifically have been romantically attracted in the past and that he is in a comprising position (spending time alone with her) there is a problem.

Where [is he contradicting his words]?

Appliepie says he agreed to date exclusively. Yet he is spending time alone with his ex and having dinner with her every week. That is the contradiction.

He is keeping his agreement – he is not romanticly seeing anyone else.

If appliepie really believes that, I have a bridge to sell her.

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If is was a husband or a fiance, I would be in complete agreement with what you are saying but not when it comes to a boyfriend.

True he is not breaking marriage vows. That isn’t the point. The point is he claims to be in an exclusive dating relationship yet is involved with another woman. Romantically or not, his relationship with his ex has a level of intimacy and frequency that is not consistent with a supposedly exclusive relationship with appliepie.

The path the relationship with his ex is on is one that would naturally lead to a romantic (i.e. sexual) arrangement. At the same time he is supposedly discussing marriage with applepie. She would be wise to create some separation and look for someone who is more consistent in his intentions.

 

[Mom_of_5]

You are young, don’t waste these precious years on this go-no-where relationship. There is someone else out there for you, go find him. He certainly knows he is hurting you by seeing his ex. You are allowing him to have his cake and eat it to…He is probably wallowing in the glory of two women who “love” him. Run, girl, run!!

Love and peace

 

[MarkNoonan]

SemperJase:

If that is true you are an exception to the rule. Men and women are made so that they are attracted to the opposite sex. Not all men will be attracted to all women, but the tendancy of sexual attraction is inherent.

There’s that bit about not being led into temptation.

I’ve said many times that there is no way I’d ever be unfaithful…I arrange this by never allowing myself to be in a position where unfaithfulness if possible. I can’t imagine who being alone with one woman could make a man faithful to another. This is of the same species, but not of the same degree, as the modern idea that pre-marital incontinence is excellent training for marital fidelity.

 

[cheeto1]

O.K. The two of you want to discern if you should marry…

Step #1 – You decided to try dating exclusively and see how
that worked.

Step #2 – There isn’t one, since step #1 didn’t work.
He wasn’t even faithful to the very first thing you
tried.

Step #3 – Move on to step #1 with someone else.
I’m sorry…

 

[Katie1723]

Sir Knight:

…Folks, let’s remember that we are talking about a boyfriend and a girlfriend here. We’re not talking about a husband seeing an ex-girlfriend or even a fiance seeing an ex-girlfriend. We’re talking about a boyfriend seeing an ex-girlfriend.

If is was a husband or a fiance, I would be in complete agreement with what you are saying but not when it comes to a boyfriend.

Sounds a little like “Bob& Carol & Ted & Alice”
Under no circumstances would I tolerate my BF seeing and old GF. It is the inherent lack of respect for anothers feelings that makes for a rough road in a relationship.

So Sir Knight…you would have no qualms whatsoever if your GF were to see an old BF? What about for a weekend get away?? Would that make a difference?? I am curious.
~ Kathy ~

 

[asquared]

applepie:

Hi all

My boyfriend and I, both in our late 20s, starting courting a couple of months ago with a view to discerning whether we are being called to marry. We have agreed not to date anybody else. I posted recently in the Morality forum re keeping our relationship pure.!

from the rest of your post, it sounds as if you are discerning whether to marry and have agreed to an exclusive relationship, but your boyfriend has not. He is still dating his ex and sharing an emotional relationship which for him seems very compelling. therefore, she is not his ex, but one of his current girlfriends, you are the other. He better decide. give him 5 minutes to decide to cut it off with her, or with you. My bet is on the ex, and if that is the way he goes, you will be much better off.

if there relationship was actually physical, and he is still seeing her, I don’t think you really need to ask us what is going on here to legitimate your feelings, you need to ask him, and you probably already know the answer.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Katie1723:

So Sir Knight…you would have no qualms whatsoever if your GF were to see an old BF? What about for a weekend get away?? Would that make a difference?? I am curious.

Of course I would have ‘qualms’ if my girlfriend were to see an old boyfriend but that isn’t the point. The point is that as her BOYFRIEND, I would not have the ‘right’ to object.

SemperJase:

If that is true you are an exception to the rule. Men and women are made so that they are attracted to the opposite sex. Not all men will be attracted to all women, but the tendancy of sexual attraction is inherent.

Just curious, are you married?

Yep, married with children and ALL of my female friendships ended the day I place an engagement ring on my future wife’s finger – not before. The only female friends that I have right now are my wife’s sisters.

SemperJase:

He says he is not romantically seeing her. His actions and human nature cast doubts on his words.

Why?

SemperJase:

Given that men and women are built to be attracted and these two specifically have been romantically attracted in the past and that he is in a comprising position (spending time alone with her) there is a problem.

If there was a mutual romantic attraction between him and his ex, they wouldn’t have broken up or they would OFFICIALLY get back together. The fact that they haven’t is a sign that this assumption is incorrect.

SemperJase:

Appliepie says he agreed to date exclusively. Yet he is spending time alone with his ex and having dinner with her every week. That is the contradiction.

He agreed to not ROMANTICLY see anyone else and there is no proof that he is. Plus, he is being honest about seeing his ex. If something was going on, he would be trying to hide it.

SemperJase:

If appliepie really believes that, I have a bridge to sell her.

Yes, let’s accuse someone of being dishonest without any proof. What happened to a person being innocent until proven guilty?

SemperJase:

True he is not breaking marriage vows. That isn’t the point. The point is he claims to be in an exclusive dating relationship yet is involved with another woman.

He claims to be in an exclusive ROMANTIC dating relationship and there is no proof thst he isn’t.

SemperJase:

Romantically or not, his relationship with his ex has a level of intimacy and frequency that is not consistent with a supposedly exclusive relationship with appliepie.

But as his girlFRIEND, that is not something she has a RIGHT to. As a finacee or a wife, yes! But NOT as a girlfriend.

SemperJase:

The path the relationship with his ex is on is one that would naturally lead to a romantic (i.e. sexual) arrangement.

Again, if that were the case, then they wouldn’t have broken up in the first place or they would have official got back together again.

SemperJase:

At the same time he is supposedly discussing marriage with applepie. She would be wise to create some separation and look for someone who is more consistent in his intentions.

On the day she gets an engagement ring, she’ll have the RIGHT to tell him to no longer see his ex and he should comply without any “if’s”, “and’s” or “but’s” but not before.

 

[wabrams]

Sir Knight:

If there was a mutual romantic attraction between him and his ex, they wouldn’t have broken up or they would OFFICIALLY get back together. The fact that they haven’t is a sign that this assumption is incorrect.

He agreed to not ROMANTICLY see anyone else and there is no proof that he is. Plus, he is being honest about seeing his ex. If something was going on, he would be trying to hide it.

Yes, let’s accuse someone of being dishonest without any proof. What happened to a person being innocent until proven guilty?

He claims to be in an exclusive ROMANTIC dating relationship and there is no proof thst he isn’t.

But as his girlFRIEND, that is not something she has a RIGHT to. As a finacee or a wife, yes! But NOT as a girlfriend.

Again, if that were the case, then they wouldn’t have broken up in the first place or they would have official got back together again.

On the day she gets an engagement ring, she’ll have the RIGHT to tell him to no longer see his ex and he should comply without any “if’s”, “and’s” or “but’s” but not before.

I’ve got one word: naive.

 

[Ferdinand_Mary]

General Reminder:

The charity level of this discussion appears to be deteriorating. Please self-edit for tone and content before clicking the “Submit” button. If the charity level does not improve, this thread will have to be locked. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,

Ferdinand Mary

 

[applepie]

Hi again everybody,

I’m back again with an update and some further clarifications. Thanks for all the advice…also for the offers of wedgies etc for my boyfriend! I’ll keep them all in mind

Had a big chat with him a couple of days ago.

Re my boyfriend’s meeting with his ex every week before the prayer meeting, he explained that they both leave work around the same time and have a 2 - 3 hour time-gap before the prayer meeting which they fill by catching up and grabbing dinner. It’s not a romantic dinner in a nice restaurant, just something basic. Neither of them live close to the prayer meeting so they can’t get dinner at home like the other prayer group members do. He said that if the prayer meeting wasn’t in the picture, there is no way that they would be meeting up every week. He said that this is pretty much the only communication that they have during the week, they don’t ring each other to chat etc He said that they chat as friends, there is no romantic element there at all. He said that he is 100% sure that there will never be any further romantic connection with this girl, but he acknowledged that she is a good friend, a very good friend who he doesn’t want to cut out of his life. He said that he doesn’t want to be one of those people who forgets his other friends when he dates somebody new and that this girl is one of his oldest friends. He said that he has no doubts that I am the only person that he wants to date.

He said that he has promised to stay friends with his ex and that as this is their only real communication during the week, he wouldn’t really be staying friends with her if he cut this out as well.

I explained to him the situation as I see it, notwithstanding that the above is the case. I said to him that I felt that it was still a long time to spend chatting to an ex, approx 3 hours every week. You can’t spend 3 hours talking about the weather and the state of the roads! I also don’t like the fact that he drives her to and from the prayer meeting after their dinner, meaning that he arrives and leaves with her. I know people at the prayer meeting and I feel that it’s disrespectful to me that they would see him arriving and leaving with his ex, although admitedly he has told them all that he and I are now dating. In addition, I am not invited along to their dinner and he also feels that it might be better for me not to go along to their prayer meeting (although I’m not free myself that night in any case) because of awkwardness for his ex, also he would feel awkward if we were both there. Nobody else is invited along, although I know that he is correct in saying that the other prayer group members grab dinner in their own homes. However, they are not even given the option of joining my boyfriend and his ex.

Re the ex going back to my boyfriend’s family house for evening dinner, he said that it was his Mother who has been asking to see his ex again and keeps asking when she can come down to the house. In fact, his mother can’t actually make the time and day that they had originally agreed on so the whole plan is scraped, at least for the time being. His ex would drive down to the family house herself, he would not collect her as I originally thought.

So anyway, he listened to everything I said and he said that he sees exactly where I’m coming from. From his side, he knows there is nothing romantic with his ex, but he can see how I would have reservations about the amount of time they do spend chatting. He asked me how I would suggest that he changes, what would I be happy with in terms of his interaction with her. I said that I didn’t want to be the “bad guy” telling him what he can and can’t do, I said that I wanted him to see the inappropriateness of the whole arrangement himself and change because he thinks he should, not because i want him to.

He’s going to spend the next few days thinking…me too

 

[LSK]

I think you handled this with grace and dignity. You spoke to him from your heart, stated your feelings calmly and and with honesty. He listenned and asked questions. You told him what you would like to happen.

Now you need to pray for guidance. If he comes to you with an answer that is not to your liking then you need to be grown-up enough to accept that this may not be the man for you. If, however, he comes to you with an answer that, while it may not be entirely to your liking is one that you feel is a good compromise and that you can live with then you may have both laid the foundation for a good, solid partnership - one based on mutual understanding, affection and respect.

Good for you! You are both in my prayers.

 

[Lillith]

Personally…I would ask him to join another prayer group. Beware of the possible future mother-in-law…I have one like that…and she kept my Husbands ex girlfriend pictures up all over the house…compared us constantly, and was rather difficult to get to know.

I am glad he understands how you feel. Men and women cannot be friends however…it is a fact. Someone always developes stronger feelings for the other…it is inevitable. One day she might look up from her food and say to herself…you know…he really was a nice boyfriend…maybe we should revisit that…

That is a lesson that tons of younger people do not get until they have been burned…in my thirty something years of life I have seen it time and time again. My ex-husband found love with a “friend” that he had worked with for five years…

 

[estesbob]

Sir Knight:

Of course I would have ‘qualms’ if my girlfriend were to see an old boyfriend but that isn’t the point. The point is that as her BOYFRIEND, I would not have the ‘right’ to object.

Yep, married with children and ALL of my female friendships ended the day I place an engagement ring on my future wife’s finger – not before. The only female friends that I have right now are my wife’s sisters.

Why?

If there was a mutual romantic attraction between him and his ex, they wouldn’t have broken up or they would OFFICIALLY get back together. The fact that they haven’t is a sign that this assumption is incorrect.

He agreed to not ROMANTICLY see anyone else and there is no proof that he is. Plus, he is being honest about seeing his ex. If something was going on, he would be trying to hide it.

Yes, let’s accuse someone of being dishonest without any proof. What happened to a person being innocent until proven guilty?

He claims to be in an exclusive ROMANTIC dating relationship and there is no proof thst he isn’t.

But as his girlFRIEND, that is not something she has a RIGHT to. As a finacee or a wife, yes! But NOT as a girlfriend.

Again, if that were the case, then they wouldn’t have broken up in the first place or they would have official got back together again.

On the day she gets an engagement ring, she’ll have the RIGHT to tell him to no longer see his ex and he should comply without any “if’s”, “and’s” or “but’s” but not before.

I see where you are coming from. But I beleive the question is NOT does he have the right to continue seeing his supposedly ex-girlfrined BUT should she continue wasting her time(IMO) dating him?

 

[1ke]

Well, there are any number of ways he can handle the “dinner out” thing. First, he can just go home after work, read the paper, check the mail, eat his meal at home, etc, and then go to the meeting. 2-3 hours is a long time. I see no reason he should make plans with this girl, give her a ride, etc.

He says w/o this dinner they wouldn’t have any other contact. The prayer meeting IS their contact. That should be sufficient.

It concerns me that he doesn’t want you to join the prayer group because of her discomfort. What the heck is that? It’s a prayer group! You pray. How could that be uncomfortable? And, why do her feelings take precedent over yours?

Also, his mother’s interest in maintaining a relationship with this girl is troubling. Why??? If she wants a friendship with her then she should pursue it on her own. They supposedly live so close, this shouldn’t be an issue. But, again, I ask why the mother wants to keep up with an ex girlfriend. It’s a bad sign of things to come.

And, his response to his mother bugging him to bring this girl around should have been-- “Mom, we aren’t dating anymore. So I won’t be bringing her around.” End of story.

He seems to lack a backbone around his mother (bad sign, huge red flag), he seems intent on pleasing everyone but you (bad sign, huge red flag), and he still does not seem to understand the issue properly as one of primacy and intimacy and exclusivity in a relationship (bad sign, huge red flag).

I just think he is neither mature enough nor independent enough to give you the sort of emotionally stable and exclusive relationship you desire. You seem ready, he does not.

Bottom line-- men spend time & money on the things they want to spend time and money on. So, he can make up all sorts of excuses as to why this is convenient, polite, etc etc etc. Bottom line: * he has a 3 hours weekly dinner with this girl because he WANTS to*. That should be enough to tell you all you need to know.

 

[Sir_Knight]

applepie:

she is a good friend, a very good friend who he doesn’t want to cut out of his life. He said that he doesn’t want to be one of those people who forgets his other friends when he dates somebody new and that this girl is one of his oldest friends

And that is the point that I have been trying to make.

 

[Lillith]

Sir Knight:

And that is the point that I have been trying to make.

I have been reading your posts, and for the most part agree with you. I felt like we were saying the same thing…in synapsis…the young man hasn’t done anything wrong…you should date other people…BUT…

I really do not think that men and women can be friends sucessfully…is it your position that they can?