Amazon Synod and Pagan Rituals

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Emeraldlady said:
The Traditionalists were always calling him a heretic and pagan.
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It is not the Trads. It is a tiny fraction that unfortunately drags many who have nothing to do.

And you are very right about how Pope John Paul was also tackled for that. Yet didn’t fall…
Give thanks to the Lord. He is good.
 
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Emeraldlady said:
Pope John Paul II always kissed the ground when he arrived in a new country. He often joined in the traditional dancing ceremonies as well. He kissed the Koran and wore tribal headdresses for different ceremonies.
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Yeah, I’m pretty liberal compared to many posters here. But I wasn’t okay with this then and I’m still not. Frankly, in light of previous teachings from prior popes, it’s absolutely stunning that he did this.
 
When the Church didn’t participate in this stuff, it went about converting the whole world. The more the Church has engaged in this kind of stuff since Vatican II, the more the pews, rectories, seminaries, and monstaries have emptied, and the more people in South America have embraced pentecostalism and evangelicalism, where Christ is actually preached against idolatry.

Not a single person will be converted to Christ by those clergyman participating in that event. This synod should be about how to best seek the conversions of those ignorant of Christ and ensnared in superstition. Instead, we praise the superstition and obscure Christ.
 
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I’m not implying that Pope Francis is a heretic or that he actively participated in this pagan ritual. Yet, you mentioned these examples of John Paul II as if they are good. I personally think that kissing the Quran , wearing the headdresses etc etc, however well intentioned they may have been, did not always convey the proper meaning.

This pagan worship ritual is also very troubling because what is the meaning behind it? That the Pope and the Church are woke and all forms of worship are valid and beneficial?
 
Genesis315 said:
Not a single person will be converted to Christ by those clergyman participating in that event.
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Agreed. And I may be wrong, but the clergyman in the lower left corner of the photo that shows all the participants on their knees, I believe he’s wearing a Franciscan habit. So it appears there’s at least one Catholic clergyman actively participating in this ritual.
 
Crusader13 said:
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Here’s a bigger picture of this scene–I wonder how that figure laying to the right was used in this ceremony? Attending a ceremony with phallic fertility idols is not a good look for a bunch of celibate clergy from a church mired in sex scandals.

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The thing that bothers me about these statues is some are saying they represent Mary and Elizabeth. I’m sorry, did they need to be naked?
 
I’ve heard that too. On another website someone said it was part of an arm but I can’t tell from the photo alone.

Still disturbingly inappropriate.
 
The long and the short of it is that people are going to latch on to this as Pope Francis tacitly approving syncretism and religious relativism. This is not a good thing.
 
Crusader13 said:
On another website someone said it was part of an arm but I can’t tell from the photo alone.
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It’s an arm. I don’t have the picture on hand, but I saw an image from a different angle, and it was definitely an arm.

Regardless, this ritual was flat out pagan, and no clergy member, let alone the Pope of Rome, should have attended. This is shameful. Just imagine how St Paul would react…
 
I first read about it (and it was described as I did) in Robert Royal’s article over at The Catholic Thing. But yeah, as others said, this event was still inappropriate even without it.
 
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These photos were taken at the Santa Maria in Traspontina in Rome.

The center phrase states. “Everything is Connected”.

And yes the woman is suckling an animal!
 
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The news surrounding the Amazon Synod has me thinking that the prodigal son’s older brother had a point.

Cardinal Burke, Bishop Schneider, and a whole host of other faithful churchmen and theologians are raising alarm that this will promote and encourage religious relativism and syncretism.

I have endured and even defended Pope Francis from his critics in the past. But this is too far. But the defenses of him are always the same: saying he was quoted “out of context”, the “indirect approach”, or claiming that his theology is some 2smart4u 4D Chess game.

Coupled with his tacit approval of known heretics like Cardinals Marx and Kasper and his recent snideness towards American Catholics, I’m starting to feel extremely unwanted and not welcome in the Church I have given years of love, obedience, and service to. Again, I know that makes me sound like the older son. But unlike him, I’m not looking for approval or reward from Holy Mother Church.

I have no intention of leaving the Church, but all the signs I can see point to the Church leaving me. Why should I even bother trying to be a good disciple of Christ if His own shepherds, who claim moral and spiritual authority over me, endorse the opposite?

I know “The Gates of Hell will not prevail” and all that, but with every theologian worth his salt sounding the alarm and going so far as to call the Amazon Synod “apostasy”, are we not witnessing exactly that?
 
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Roland_Deschain said:
The news surrounding the Amazon Synod has me thinking that the prodigal son’s older brother had a point.
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No, his situation doesn’t apply here. The older brother would have a point if the younger brother brought his favorite prostitutes over for an orgy at dad’s house and dad was cool with it while mocking the older brother for being “rigid” about it being bad. That’s the analogy here.

No one is objecting to the penitent being received with joy, but rather receiving non-Christian superstition and immorality with joy, while standing firm in the faith is mocked and derided.

Pope Francis is a man with a great responsibility who will face his own particular judgment, as will we all. Trust in God and obey His commandments and nothing will be able to bring you down.

As St. Paul said:
Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies; 34 who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us? 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For thy sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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And Moses before him:
Exodus 14:13 And Moses said to the people,“Fear not, stand firm, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will work for you today; for the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall never see again. 14 The Lord will fight for you, and you have only to be still.”
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Applying these words, Bl. John Henry Newman (soon to be a saint) said:
Christianity has been too often in what seemed deadly peril, that we should fear for it any new trial now. So far is certain; on the other hand, what is uncertain, and in these great contests commonly is uncertain, and what is commonly a great surprise, when it is witnessed, is the particular mode by which, in the event, Providence rescues and saves His elect inheritance. Sometimes our enemy is turned into a friend; sometimes he is despoiled of {70} that special virulence of evil which was so threatening; sometimes he falls to pieces of himself; sometimes he does just so much as is beneficial, and then is removed. Commonly the Church has nothing more to do than to go on in her own proper duties, in confidence and peace; to stand still and to see the salvation of God.
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http://www.newmanreader.org/works/addresses/file2.html
 
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Roland_Deschain said:
I have no intention of leaving the Church, but all the signs I can see point to the Church leaving me. Why should I even bother trying to be a good disciple of Christ if His own shepherds, who claim moral and spiritual authority over me, endorse the opposite?
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Very good… please do not leave!

The Synod in no way is even considering endorse moral and/or spiritual corruption… Fear not! The Synod is a good…it is meant to be a dialogue about the right way to evangelize in a remote and extremely important part of the world.

If you don’t mind me asking, what about the synod troubles you?
 
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godisgood77 said:
If you don’t mind me asking, what about the synod troubles you?
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The embrace of syncretism, pagan rituals, and taking a hatchet to Holy Orders by “ordaining” deaconesses.

This is especially troubling because, if such changes do occur, they will invalidate the Catholic Church’s claim to apostolic succession and infallibility. My Catholic friends are my only friends IRL, and I don’t see any way around staying if the Church endorses this. More importantly, if the Synod makes these changes, then it means the faith I cherish, this Pearl of Great Price which I have loved for so many years, is all a lie.

For the past few years, I have tried to just tune out Pope Francis. I can’t anymore. If he allows these changes to happen, it will affect more than just the remote Amazonian regions. Liberation theologians the world over will run away with it just like they did with Vatican II.

All signs point to the Gates of Hell prevailing over the Church right now.
 
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