Amazon Synod and Pagan Rituals

  • Thread starter Thread starter Johann_du_Toit
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
This article is very helpful and will go back to it as well as watch video. Thanks.
 
Roland_Deschain said:
The worst kind of heretic is the one who convincingly portrays himself as a faithful Catholic.
Click to expand...
Heresy is denying what the Catholic Church is teaching. That is kind of the only way the word has any meaning. Making this some vague insult against faithful Catholics has no meaning.
 
Isn’t this a liberal publication?

The question was asked at the Synod on whether these symbols had anything to do with the Visitation or Mary in general…
an Amazon missionary Bishop says it probably represents “fertility, woman, life” adding we “don’t need to create any connections with the Virgin Mary or with a pagan element”
Click to expand...
 
Thank you. This was hardly a spin piece. In fact, it was the first place I have seen the whole ceremony, or meeting, or whatever. It was not a religious rite. So if there is any spin, I would rather expect those who produce snippets taken out of context to be the spin doctors. Instead of the heresy some are decrying here, I see only a blatant exercise of the sin described in the catechism as rash judgement.

If one is going to spin anything, we should “spin” as the Church teaches us to spin.
2478 To avoid rash judgment , everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
Click to expand...
This is Church teaching. Let us listen and stop this sort of evil attack on the Holy Spirit. Instead of looking for demons on the blankets, let us search our own hearts.
 
Last edited:
The Pope has done a pretty good job of attacking some Catholics also.
 
The line “I do think it is not accurate to link the three statues as if they were one single set” is a fine starting point. It’s lovely that the author doesn’t think they’re linked. We certainly aren’t any closer to an answer because of his assertion. This entire piece reads like a justification meant to diffuse the most right-wing elements of the Church. But what about those who aren’t right-wing in the slightest and are totally baffled by what’s taking place?
 
gracepoole said:
This entire piece reads like a justification meant to diffuse the most right-wing elements of the Church. But what about those who aren’t right-wing in the slightest and are totally baffled by what’s taking place?
Click to expand...
When one is baffled, then reliance on 2478 of the Catechism is the only approach. I do not really have a problem with the odd representation of Mary, what with Our Lady of Guadalupe, and the Black Madonna already venerated imagery of the virgin. As to what the Holy Father thought, I have to slip back to when St. John Paul the great received a copy of the Koran. He simply received the gift with a kiss, as a gift. I am a nobody, yet if someone gave me a cigar on the birth of a child, it doesn’t mean I support smoking, much less lung cancer. It would simply be a gift I would accept with gratitude.

I cannot imagine what it is like to be the Pope and have so many various people, many who are not Catholic, give you gifts that mean so much to them. Receiving it graciously is probably the default response to everything.

Likewise, one wonders how many ceremonies like this the Pope attends and simply moves on from without a second thought. Dozens, hundreds? The focus on this reveals more about church politics, and our desire for controversy, than it does about the man himself.
 
Last edited:
I just read the article and much of what was written has been criticized for the apparent attempt to attach Catholic symbolism to the idols.

For example the pregnant idol said to be Our Lady of the Amazon is odd, because the argument is that there is no Our Lady of the Amazon. This understanding was later inferred that the two pregnant woman must be a representation of the Visitation.

However, this interpretation was never given as the official meaning, but only reasoned as such because the thought of a purely pagan worship ritual was too problematic to explain.

Why? Because the rest of the idols have no obvious representation that would suggest them to be a depiction of the visitation. Meaning, one can look at the two pregnant idols and say “that’s Mary and Elizabeth “. However, the rest are ignored because they have no idea how they fit into this context.

The holding hands and dancing is depicted as having no religious or worship ritual attracted to it, but the kneeling is not mentioned.

The article is attempting to downplay what is taking place but with comments like those from
Christopher Lamb : An Amazonian Bishop told me it is an image of life. “Everything Human is Christian.”
Click to expand...
That statement clearly highlights the problem with this ritual.
 
Last edited:
Sure…we all can find teachings from Scripture or the CCC to support our concerns…
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths. - 2 Tim 4:1 - 10
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Divine3 said:
This too will pass
Click to expand...
Divine3 I am not so sure. To me the bells are already tolling. There are many in silence, a few who stand up and protest, and on the other side are those who engineer it and smile behind their hands. Cicero was right. This is how it seems to me. Admittedly I also see half empty glasses, it’s a personality thing.
The line in the sand is getting narrower. Harder to stand on the edge or in the middle. People will find themselves on one side or the other.
 
It was a ceremony, not a teaching.

Timothy was a bishop.
 
Last edited:
Looks like a naive attempt that borders on being morally problematic. A discussion could work, but participating in this ceremony is not neccessary and likely was done in vain.
 
I am reminded of the story of Chicken Little. Many have seen the fall of the Church in their generation. I remember pretty much the same things being said about St. John Paul the Great in his day as well. Maybe this is the time, and that this incident is really the catalyst for the Apocalypse. Or maybe it really was just a boring hour long, tree-planting ceremony.
 
Last edited:
The ceremony was bizarre, pagan and certainly not Catholic. The mission of the Church is to preach the Gospel, go and make disciples. I can’t help but see this courting of pagan beliefs as anything but worldliness. The Cardinals forget that it is our Lord who converts souls. It’s as if they don’t know Him.
 
No, I do not think it is the catalyst, it is a pebble, joining the hundreds of other pebbles already being rolled
 
Last edited:
pnewton said:
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
Click to expand...
Now why do I get the feeling that this is exactly what will be said on here in the future, if say, blessing same sex unions, or women priests is being debated. Such as is the case in the German Church at this very moment. “This is the direction the Spirit is leading us,” they’ll say.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top