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billsherman
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That is very offensive to virtually all theologians, bishops, and the Pope himself. You should remove this comment.
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GiftofMercy
Guest
Does anyone actually have complete video of the ceremony? Photos are an instant in time that can be taken well out of context.
And can anyone explain in plain english, just what the Synod has done so far that is against Catholic Teaching.
Or just dot point what is actually on the agenda to be discussed.
Discussions do not mean implementation. So what has actually been implemented that is so wrong according to the Church
@billsherman because you can explain things well
and others .
And can anyone explain in plain english, just what the Synod has done so far that is against Catholic Teaching.
Or just dot point what is actually on the agenda to be discussed.
Discussions do not mean implementation. So what has actually been implemented that is so wrong according to the Church
@billsherman because you can explain things well
and others .
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gam197
Guest
Could be, was not there, have no idea what it’s relevance is to the culture. Could be a fertility symbol which are very common in tribal groups.It will certainly give all the anti-catholic or bored people something to talk about. It is not relevant to my faith and will not make a difference. Pope John Paul II took a lot of criticism and Pope Francis will also be criticized for this.
Now if tomorrow I wake up and the Germans have ordained women, and the Pope does not immediately excommunicate, that would shake my faith.
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GiftofMercy
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Would you have a link to video of the complete ceremony?
Crusader13
New member
I’m just amazed at the amount of effort it is taking to defend this synod and what we’ve seen so far.
You have to literally isolate all of these events and present them as if they have no connection or ties to anything pagan.
It’s not worship it’s dancing, It’s not praying it’s singing, it’s not an idol it’s Mary, it’s not pagan it’s Amazonian Christian, it’s not ritualistic it’s humanitarian, it’s not about Mother Earth, but all life. And on and on and on…
This is absurd. If it takes this much effort to explain how this isn’t what it looks like, then they probably shouldn’t be doing it.
You have to literally isolate all of these events and present them as if they have no connection or ties to anything pagan.
It’s not worship it’s dancing, It’s not praying it’s singing, it’s not an idol it’s Mary, it’s not pagan it’s Amazonian Christian, it’s not ritualistic it’s humanitarian, it’s not about Mother Earth, but all life. And on and on and on…
This is absurd. If it takes this much effort to explain how this isn’t what it looks like, then they probably shouldn’t be doing it.
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Nmc
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Did u read the working document? It was new age. It was totally scandalous and the ceremony celebrated was right in line with it.
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Divine3
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I pray for the sake of our Church, our youth we will see unity. I am praying that our Mother, crush any heresies and bring them to light. Saint John Paul would say,“Be not afraid”.
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Nmc
Guest
Read the working document. There was nothing in it that aligned with our creed. If any preach a gospel different let him be anathema. Did the working document or the ceremony give any indication of ideas or efforts toward knowing our Lord. Or that which he commanded his disciples. This is the same current that admonishes kneeling before our Lord in the Eucharist. The faithful all right to speak out. If they are premature and this synod goes on to affirm the teachings of Christ then all will be thankful. The truth though is that souls everywhere are at risk of damnation bc cowardly Bishops and Cardinals are unwilling to speak out against the lies of Satan. Catholics have silently waited for long enough. We are watching this synod closely.
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billsherman
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I really can’t, I’m sorry, although I appreciate your confidence in me!
I believe this link will take you to all of the relevant documents related to the synod: http://www.sinodoamazonico.va/conte...orking-document-for-the-synod-of-bishops.html
I’m not a theologian, so synods have never interested me terribly much, and I really don’t know how they work. I’m certain someone here can provide useful information though.
I’m confident, however, that the synod will not discuss anything contrary to Catholic teaching. There is a lot of smoke about this one, but it seems to be primarily driven by critics of Pope Francis.
And this is extremely important to remember. Bishops discuss all sorts of things, all the time. Sometimes, they even discuss controversial things. Intellectualism and scholarship - two things the Church holds dear - demand that we discuss things that make us uncomfortable. That doesn’t mean there is any reason to implement them.
In my line of work - historian of Early Christianity - I have occasion to talk with many bishops each year. Overwhelmingly, they are intellectually fearless men who recognize that Catholic theological thought didn’t die with Aquinas.
Emeraldlady
New member
It’s more of a Protestant thing to think of idolatry as worshiping carved statues. The OT specifically warned against that as harmful to their own faith God the Father In the New Testament idolatry is manifest more in worship of the flesh. Our faith has been enlightened by the coming of Christ and is put in danger more in idolising the flesh.
1 Cor 10 7 Do not become idolaters as some of them did; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and they rose up to play.” 8 We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day.
Col 3 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient.
As Pope StJPII observed about the animists, some of their beliefs and practices provided a good disposition to receive the Gospel. There was a time when the missionaries thought it was the right thing to do to completely westernise cultures in order for them to receive the Gospel but this is not proven to be true.
1 Cor 10 7 Do not become idolaters as some of them did; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and they rose up to play.” 8 We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day.
Col 3 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient.
As Pope StJPII observed about the animists, some of their beliefs and practices provided a good disposition to receive the Gospel. There was a time when the missionaries thought it was the right thing to do to completely westernise cultures in order for them to receive the Gospel but this is not proven to be true.
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adgloriam
Guest
hey @(name removed by moderator), in my opinion the following applies really well as an exercise when dealing with multi-culturalism and other people. It’s, perhaps, the most pertinent for some folks in this thread acting scandalized just because the pope is meeting some people and letting them do their thing.
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Nmc
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The duties of Bishops and cardinals extend beyond implementation. They have the duty to defend the faith and to call out and condemn error. To prevent people who don’t even believe in what the church teaches from co-opting her mission. Souls are at stake.
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Nmc
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The problem is we have people walking around saying a splinter in the eye is no problem.
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Nmc
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I hardly think folks are “acting” scandalized.
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Major
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This is precisely what we should do and this is what this discussion is about. We should get rid of the beam of false syncretism before we will be able to properly convert pagans. That is probable that their paganism is less evil in the eyes of God than is our consent for this paganism. But nevertheless the splinter stays, and we will harm them by saying that it is a natural thing and it should stay like it is.
(or maybe we should even praise wooden splinter for being biodegradable …)
(or maybe we should even praise wooden splinter for being biodegradable …)
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
I too think it will work out and the Holy Spirit will guide them in truth.
I thought that at first also, but now I am hearing concerns being expressed by those who normally are not critics of Pope Francis.
Link I am only saying the word link because I do not want to link the website you posted again. Do you realize that website is antiCatholic and considers Catholicism a cult?
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Nmc
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We just never hear them come out and defend it, or admonish the many movements calling themselves Catholic and actively promoting things that are anti christian. What good is the vigorous intellect if it is not used to defend the faith. Shepard vs. the paid hand. The best way to save the sheep? Stop paying the hirelings. The true Shepards are left. The sheep know His voice. They wont follow another. I didn’t hear anything Christian in the working document. No offense but the intellectual heaVy weights must not be doing a good job given the recent poll numbers published on belief in the true presence. Maybe these scholars should let go of the lofty intellectual pursuits and refocus their efforts on the basics.
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billsherman
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You don’t think this is Christian:
“Jesus offers life to the full (cf Jn 10:10), a life full of God, a salvific life ( zōē ), which begins with creation and manifests itself from the start in the most elementary dimension of life ( bios ).”
I suspect you didn’t read the document, like most of its critics.
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gracepoole
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This is where I’m coming from. How all of this doesn’t lead to confusion in the laity I’ve no idea.
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Dovekin
Guest
What would you think if some bishops admonished you for promoting anti christian “things”? Evangelization is about bringing the Gospel to all people, a Gospel that tells each person “you are God’s beloved child.” Evangelization is not just about pressing our ideas upon others but also about learning what they bring to us. If we do not give them a sense of being valued, loved by God, we are not evangelizing.
One of the oddest things in this discussion was the quote from Cicero. If we did not accept what is good from pagans, we would not have accepted the advice of the pagan Cicero. It is good advice. And what we receive from the pagans in the Amazon may be as enlightening as Cicero or Aristotle. We do not know yet because we have not been enlightened by it. This has always been the Catholic way, to reach out to others to teach them and to learn from them, trusting the Lord to guide us.
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