Amazon Synod and Pagan Rituals

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Didn’t the heresy of the Manichaeans extend quite a bit beyond the refusal to receive the sacraments from married priests?
 
Nmc said:
Didn’t the heresy of the Manichaeans extend quite a bit beyond the refusal to receive the sacraments from married priests?
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Yes it did. But I’m just pointing out that Synods are purposed for the very issues that are facing the global Church in each era. We’ve always been ‘synodal’. It has never been that a Pope has ruled like a dictator. The Church believes in listening to ordinary people with extraordinary problems to see what comes from it. One of the reasons that the Jews would not accept Jesus is that He was just a simple carpenter from a small town.

The Church has always behaved as a listener first and foremost and guarded and guided by the Holy Spirit in that process.
 
Nmc said:
That is not bigotry.
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In your case it’s rhetoric. (and some political controversy?)
Nmc said:
criticism of a document calling on the church to establish formation centers which teach indigenous religions
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There’s more to it than that. Formation centers established by the church are open to the community they serve with some due exceptions in content. Historically in times of religious persecution there were instances of Jewish religious services being held in catholic churches, same for gatherings of all kinds.

Should the animists be allowed to share the space for their activities?! Without a doubt (and here the word Anthropology should be included). - Which is completely different of lending the same space to some proselytizing NRM sect, for example.
 
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adgloriam said:
Jesus didn’t say:“bring him Me”, as I’m sure the priest and the Levite went on their way to preach), I’m shocked with the amount of bigotry on this thread.
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So calling others bigots is uncharitable in and of itself. Please understand that what I was saying was we need to go in to this area and help them and bring them physical aid yes, but absolutely bring them Christ.
We can save their mortal lives but we also need to be concerned about their immortal souls.

Also in the parable of the good samaritan, according to St. Bede, Catholic understanding is the samaritan is Christ and the inn is the Catholic Church.
 
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Well Christ came and picked me up brought me back to the inn and healed my wounds. I suppose I think less of the samaritan. I think of the guy lying on the side of the street…::like eveytime I pass a homeless person. And then I think of Christ saying when you didnt help the least, you didnt help me.
 
Z
“MagdalenaRita said:
So calling others a bigot is pretty uncharitable in and of itself.
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There is a lot of bigotry in this thread…
If only Christians had been received like that in South America, or Catholics now in Amazonia…
What makes you believe that they wouldn t have a right to say: “ Keep those pagans out of land”.” Pagans in Amazonia!!”

It is shameful so much so that all that has been done is micromanage who should go , how this or that should be done, moving pawns in a chessboard but not one, not even one of the “ micro managers”said here
“ Lord, send me…”
Send others…
And you know what: They are in good hands.They don t need people who despise them and their culture.
Not one of the critics noticed how they made the sign of the cross in front of the Holy Father. Gently , slowly and respectfully. Nobody. But searched for genitals in rain sticks…
Too much for today…
 
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You’d have to meet those people and look them in the face @(name removed by moderator) (your country doesn’t have words for this…)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Muito brigada!
You ve been fantastic. God bless you, Ad Gloriam.
 
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I thought the document itself seemed like micromanagement or central planning macromanagement. I believe we should send out missionaries. I don’t think we should set up a UN peace keeping mission with a cultural heritage site to boot. But we definitely should send missionaries. Think of the missionaries to Japan. They preached the Gospel, the core tenants of the faith. They were expelled but when they returned like 200 yrs later the faith in the simple core tenants of the creed had persevered. They didn’t set up Japanese theology classes or teach ancestor worship. The reason it persevered was not by their willingness to fix the infrastructure but bc the Gospel goes out and bears fruit. It is the Lord’s work. Not a social welfare project. They were martyred precisely bc they spoke the truth that the culture didn’t want to hear. Bc they had a holy fear as instructed in the scripture for themselves and the souls the ministered to of that which kills the soul above that which kills the body. I.E. they actually believed that the immortal souls of men were at stake. In their great faith they actually imitated Christ to the cross.
 
No one that criticizes the document or the synod despises the people of the Amazon. But when the document says teach indigenous theology and eco theology and the synod highlights an indigenous ritual to mother earth at the Vatican the faithful have the right to demand the creed be preserved. Go preach the Gospel. Start with the creed and God will take care of the rest.

As for the ethnic diversity we dont have all those names. in the US we just call it American. In the Church so long as they adhere to the creed we just call it Catholic. Although they got nothing on the ethnic diversity of Nigeria.
 
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Dovekin said:
And what we receive from the pagans in the Amazon may be as enlightening as Cicero or Aristotle. We do not know yet because we have not been enlightened by it. This has always been the Catholic way, to reach out to others to teach them and to learn from them, trusting the Lord to guide us.
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No I can’t agree. Cicero spoke from basic common sense as has Plato and Aristotle as it happens. Enlightened by pagans is not what agreeing with Cicero’s common sense and intellect means. Being seduced by demonic idolatry is what agreeing a pagan ritual is ok is
 
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billsherman said:
That is very offensive to virtually all theologians, bishops, and the Pope himself. You should remove this comment.
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Numbers don’t count. Orthodoxy does. Athanasius stood alone.
 
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Great point about the synod. May I add an observation,this of course could be another thread. When a statement is made that the Jews didn’t accept Jesus (and I have heard it said many times in homilies, in classrooms, by Christians ) ---- it is truly a false statement. Mary was a Jew, the Apostles were Jews, Saint Joseph was a Jew and many of our first Christians were Jews. And Jesus is a Jew. The blessed Mother didn’t take off her Jewish heritage just because the Gentiles started to convert with the great works of St. Paul (a Pharisee). Thanks, had to write this for everyone including me.

Looking together to a common future

Looking to the future of relations between Jews and Christians, in the first place we appeal to our Catholic brothers and sisters to renew the awareness of the Hebrew roots of their faith. We ask them to keep in mind that Jesus was a descendant of David; that the Virgin Mary and the Apostles belonged to the Jewish people; that the Church draws sustenance from the root of that good olive tree on to which have been grafted the wild olive branches of the Gentiles (cf. Rom 11:17-24); that the Jews are our dearly beloved brothers, indeed in a certain sense they are “our elder brothers”.(21)
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...nts/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_16031998_shoah_en.html
 
Sound, charitable, and does not appeal to theories about whether the indigens are lying to make it pass as christian or whatever rash conjecture. I feel like there’s a strong confirmation bias in the thread and it does not matter how many clarifications there can be, people will stick to their almighty impression as if it was enough to make such grave judgement against anyone. We saw exactly the same allegations against John-Paul II’s meetings. The worst may be the complete reversal of authority and legitimacy regarding who can determine the right doctrine or discipline but that’s quite common among US catholics nowadays. I wonder where they have inherited that from? Certainly not the magisterium.
 
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Nmc said:
Read the working document. There was nothing in it that aligned with our creed. If any preach a gospel different let him be anathema. Did the working document or the ceremony give any indication of ideas or efforts toward knowing our Lord. Or that which he commanded his disciples. This is the same current that admonishes kneeling before our Lord in the Eucharist. The faithful all right to speak out. If they are premature and this synod goes on to affirm the teachings of Christ then all will be thankful. The truth though is that souls everywhere are at risk of damnation bc cowardly Bishops and Cardinals are unwilling to speak out against the lies of Satan. Catholics have silently waited for long enough. We are watching this synod closely.
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NO, I have asked in plain english for someone to explain what the synod has done against catholic teaching.

AS far as the ceremony goes, have you seen it in its entirety and understood in your language what is going on? That is my question, is there a link to the entire video of the ceremony. All I see are photos.
 
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Emeraldlady said:
This is where it is helpful to have studied the history of synods throughout the whole of Church history. Synod technically means a meeting to discuss controversial issues. For example the Synod of Gangra in 340 AD discussed many unresolved issues presented by the Christians called Manichaeans. The Manichaeans refused to receive the sacraments from married Priests. That was condemned by the Synod which established that married Priests could perform valid Sacraments. (Nothing new under the sun really).

The Synod of Hippo met to discuss which of the many manuscripts were legitimately inspired. There were loads around. The Council of Nicea then moved to canonise what was decided on at the Synod.

Then there was the astounding “Cadaver Synod” in 897 which met to decide if the Church could legitimately put the corpse of Pope Formosus on trial for heresy. I could go on and on.

The Vatican is a great library of the history of the Church with a vast resource of theologians and philosophers. They also have the resource of the Pontifical Academies in the different science and humanities fields that get into ground root problems and competing ideologies to Christianity, to better understand how to guide.

A Synod to discuss the very pressing problems present in the Amazon and to discuss the ideas put forward to resolve them, is just par for the course for our wonderful universal Church. People are just ignorant to think that the Amazon synod is a departure from the usual processes of the Church.
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Thankyou for this
 
As regards “evangelizing” various cultures, I don’t like the groveling posture of the Church at present.

I see people being led to the sin of pride: As if they are being told, You can remain in your error and sin, as long as you agree to join the Catholic Church-that seems to be the reasoning happening. I don’t find this practice loving or effective. It is questionable, secular and weak, IMO.

Holy Mother Church has Jesus Christ; receiving Him is about casting off the weights of life in a fallen world.

We have (and offer) Jesus, our Savior! Whose true Gospel calls us to lay aside all that we are and unite ourselves to Him. He is more than enough for me.
 
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