Amazon Synod and Pagan Rituals

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God will protect the faithful Catholics; Hell will NOT prevail against them.

The faithless? The compromisers? Those who preach a false love/tolerance and sow hatred against those they have vowed to faithfully lead in purity? Much is spoken in the Gospel of what will happen with them.

What is going on? Did someone think God was joking when He gave the FIRST Commandment???
 
I would say that depends on what you mean by the word “blend.” There are all sorts of adaptions made by the early Church, even the apostles, which is we there is a Roman Rite. The first step was in incorporating non-Jews. Then there was Paul expounding on the unknown God at the Acropolis. There was an understanding that meat offered to idols could be consumed, but sometimes it was best to avoid that. A lot of the same arguments here could have been used against the apostles.

Nonetheless, I plan to celebrate a traditional Christian Christmas this year, despite all the blending it contains.
 
CaliCatholic247 said:
God will protect the faithful Catholics;
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I hope everyone here will remember who gets to make this judgement. There have always been divergent opinions within the bounds of orthodox doctrine. Likewise, there have always been those who think they get to condemn others to Hell based on this disagreement.
 
Divine3 said:
When a statement is made that the Jews didn’t accept Jesus (and I have heard it said many times in homilies, in classrooms, by Christians ) ---- it is truly a false statement. Mary was a Jew, the Apostles were Jews, Saint Joseph was a Jew and many of our first Christians were Jews. And Jesus is a Jew. The blessed Mother didn’t take off her Jewish heritage just because the Gentiles started to convert with the great works of St. Paul (a Pharisee). Thanks, had to write this for everyone including me.
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That analogy doesn’t apply to the situation at hand. Jesus, Mary, all the Jews in question weren’t converting. Jesus wasn’t establishing a new religion and neither were the apostles. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Hebrew faith as is the Church.

In fact they were telling them that the old law cannot save them, but only faith in Jesus the Messiah would bring them salvation.

So applying this line of reasoning the synod should be telling the Amazonians that there is no Mother Earth, no rain deity or forest deity or any other false god that will save them.

Instead the Church is allowing them to merge their pagan beliefs into a bizarre amalgamation of Christian and Amazonian faiths, by claiming it’s for the benefit of bringing awareness and to help save their culture.
 
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No one has. This was a ceremony, not an encyclical. So there are two issues.

This ceremony, which I am betting not one person here actually attended, and the synod. The ceremony controversy is seen to center around the carving of a pregnant woman. It has been called an idol. So far, no evidence has been shown (here, at least)that this is a representation of any god of fertility. I have been searching to find some evidence and come up blank. Most fertility representations I have found are rather rotund, a symbol of power. So if anyone knows of where this representation has been seen as a fertility goddess prior to this ceremony, it would be interesting to follow up.

Yet even if it was, then it still is not doctrine. The pope, at best, seemed rather detached from the ceremony. There might even be a positive, if this was the case, of showing those at the synod of the need to clarify doctrine in any document they release, lest changes made are taken as more than they are.

It has been suggested that this is Our Lady of the Amazon. Again, I can find there is no such devotion. However, it is still just as likely that the ceremony was meant to present this devotion as a suggestion prior to the synod. All such titles and devotions have their start somewhere.

The second issue is the synod. On this, I can only shake my head. It has not yet begun and already it is being condemned. Come on. This is the Catholic Church, not Minority Report. So a few people who deserve our respect and admiration are concerned. There are always some disagreements prior to such events. It is why these events take place in the first place. Disagreement is to be expected. It is only in recent generations that all this stuff is put out for the laity to see. I would not worry about what the church will or will not allow until after the synod is over and action is taken.
 
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It’s so amazing to see the lengths people will go to defend everything that comes out of the Vatican.
 
Nmc said:
I hardly think setting up formation centers to teach indigenous theology and eco-theology as one of the suggestions in the document is aligned with Christ’s commissioning of the disciples/apostles.
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As I’ve written above, I’m not a theologian, so I don’t know what eco-theology and indigenous theology are. I can surmise, however, that since they are in a document written and promulgated by the Vatican that they are legitimate branches of Catholic theology. And until you, or someone else, presents evidence to the contrary I will continue to believe that.

One serious issue that a lot of Americans tend to have, is that the steady attacks on intellectualism in our culture have led many to believe that there can be only one legitimate way of looking at things. There are many, many schools of Catholic theology. They are all perfectly valid. Just like different schools of history, or different approaches to theory of law.

Too many Americans accept the false idea that there is only one orthodox school of theology (the one they follow, without exception), or that there is only one valid way to interpret law (the one their political party expounds, without exception), but the world of scholarship and intellectualism is a beautiful and diverse place. If you think Aquinas and Augustine saw everything the same way, you have missed the beauty of intellectual life.
 
TheBomb.Com said:
It’s so amazing to see the lengths people will go to defend everything that comes out of the Vatican.
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You do know that nothing has actually “come out of the Vatican” don’t you? I do not understand this comment at this time. The only comment the Pope made was, “Our Father, who art in Heaven…”

If people weren’t so eager to attack the Catholic Church, and only criticized when there was something to criticize, then perhaps defense of such attacks would seem less eager. Likewise, if you would point out deficiencies, like in my defense above, it might lead credence to your point, as opposed to a response without substance.
 
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Crusader13 said:
Instead the Church is allowing them to merge their pagan beliefs into a bizarre amalgamation of Christian and Amazonian faiths, by claiming it’s for the benefit of bringing awareness and to help save their culture.
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Have you seen this? I was under the impression that addressing this was one of the purposes of the synod. I have not seen anywhere the Church has allowed them to keep their gods and goddesses as they are incorporated into the Church.
 
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ROME — An Amazon tribal chief told a Rome conference on Saturday that a “dictatorship” of missionary workers teaching liberation theology has sought to prevent development in the region, thus keeping indigenous people in poverty and misery.

Jonas Marcolino Macuxí, the chief of the Macuxi tribe, asserted such promotion of “primitivism” (an ideology that pre-Christian indigenous traditions and mores were largely noble and good and should be conserved) brought conflict to the region from the 1970s on, undoing all that earlier missionaries and indigenous peoples had achieved in terms of positive cultural assimilation for more than a century.

He also expressed concern that many of those advising the Pope on the synod have this same ideology and that the indigenous invited to attend it have been “indoctrinated to remain in their primitive state.”

www.ncregister.com

Amazon Tribal Chief Concerned Synod Will Promote Ideology of Primitivism

Jonas Marcolino Macuxí, the chief of the Macuxi tribe, asserted promotion of ‘primitivism’ has brought conflict to the region since the 1970s.
www.ncregister.com www.ncregister.com
 
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adgloriam said:
going to Amazonia trying to forcibly proselytize the Indians.
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Are they using guns?

Obviously I oppose protestant missions, but “force”, pardon me for being skeptical. Bringing the gospel to the amazonian populace is not criminal. What a load of nonsense.
 
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adgloriam said:
AND YOU’RE TELLING ME WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SCHOOLED WESTERNERS GETTING CONFUSED?!?!?!
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No. We should be concerned about catholics getting confused. You know, your brothers and sisters in christ. Get a grip.

And let’s not forget those outside the church who need Christ also getting confused. Beleaguered amazonian native, Sudanese Muslim or billionaire westerner, we all need Christ.
 
Emeraldlady said:
Have you always thought this of the Popes or is this new to your faith? When teaching your children this principle, who do you teach them to follow if they don’t like a teaching of the Pope?
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You do know that the pope is only infallible ex-cathedra, right? That’s all popes (including Francis, Benedict XVI, JPII, JPI, Paul VI…Pius X…Leo XIII…Pius V…
 
Dovekin said:
It is even more amazing to see Catholics who do not defend everything that comes from the Holy See!
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I agree we should definitely defend our Pope and our Church and the Vatican. It is probably good to remember also though, that everything that comes from the Vatican, doesn’t comes from the Pope. I dislike it when I hear news medias saying, “from the Vatican today…” as if it was definitely something the Pope said. When it could have easily been something from anyone in the Vatican.

I feel for Pope Francis because he is the first Pope to have so much internet and social media picking up on every little word he and some of those around him say. Just thinking that it is not fair to him to take every thing he says as a final decision but be patient and let the Holy Spirit lead him.
 
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I don’t know what you consider “false worship,” but the Church is absolutely clear that other religions have the right to exist.
 
billsherman said:
but the Church is absolutely clear that other religions have the right to exist.
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No. The Church is clear that there is only one true Church. Certain indiviuals in the heirarchy have said ambiguous things that don’t change the truth. There is a difference between God permitting humans to err through free will and recognizing the legitimacy of false religions and false gods.
 
Peace Friends,

There have been some pretty strong opinions and (near) accusations thrown around on this thread so far. I just would like to take a minute, have everyone take a step back, and refocus on what should be the center of our thoughts here on this site: Christ.

Ultimately, we know next to nothing about the images shown above. I have seen absolutely nothing from the specific tribe which carried out the ceremony describing what they were actually doing. The closest I can find is a second- or third-hand quote from an unnamed “amazonian Bishop” that the statue possibly could just represent new life and fertility. We don’t even know if this Bishop is even from the same country as the native tribe who conducted the ceremony.

If the ceremony was strictly animist, then yes it should not have happened.

If, however, it was an animist ceremony and was re-purposed and directed toward Christian sources like Mary, the act of the Incarnation, the event of the Visitation, etc., then it was a different story. If we reject the Christianization of pagan practices, then we must also reject a whole host of other actions and symbols readily accepted by the modern Church: holy water fonts (from the pagan Roman practice of washing your hands and face upon entering a home), Christmas trees (Germanic animist practice to decorate the spirit’s host tree), using the term ‘Easter’ to refer to the Feast of the Resurrection (Eostre was the Germanic goddess of spring), etc.

In the end, we don’t know. We shouldn’t judge whether or not something is heresy if we don’t even know what that thing is.

In our ignorance, we must simply focus on Christ and have faith that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church.

God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM
 
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