Amazon Synod and Pagan Rituals

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vz71 said:
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Emeraldlady:
How do I determine what teachings are to be accepted in faith and what I can reject?
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You want to reject a teaching of God’s church?
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Lets just say I truly believe the Church’s prohibition on contraception brings devastating consequences for African women. How do I determine that the teaching is ‘infallible’ or that there could be exceptions made?
 
Emeraldlady said:
How do I determine that the teaching is ‘infallible’ or that there could be exceptions made?
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So you wish to except teachings that do not have a direct infallible statement attached?

I do not believe the teachings work that way.
 
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vz71 said:
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Emeraldlady:
How do I determine that the teaching is ‘infallible’ or that there could be exceptions made?
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So you wish to except teachings that do not have a direct infallible statement attached?

I do not believe the teachings work that way.
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If you scroll back through the conversation, you will see that I’m posing a hypothetical to those who say we don’t have to accept everything “that comes out of the Vatican”. If that is true, I’m asking how does one determine what should be accepted and what can be rejected. Who do I turn to for that determination if not the Magisterium?
 
Emeraldlady said:
don’t have to accept everything “that comes out of the Vatican”. If that is true, I’m asking how does one determine what should be accepted and what can be rejected. Who do I turn to for that determination if not the Magisterium?
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The best thing to do is study the faith, what is dogma, doctrine and discipline. Catechisms are great for that.

Also when people say Vatican it doesn’t always mean Pope. It could be a secretary or anyone.

Then as someone else said everything the Pope says isn’t infallible. So to take everything he says that way would not be fair to him.
 
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No. Absolutely not. That is not what I said.

It was you that used the term “faithful Catholics.” I am only saying that who the faithful are is a judgement made by God, not by each one of a billion Catholics. If this thread is giving you a concern for the difference between faithful Catholics and unfaithful, take heart. God is a God of mercy. He knows. Besides, I doubt anyone here even lives in the Amazon.
 
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You are totally correct this is complete apostasy. Write your bishops, speak to your priests. It is time to put some heat on our leaders and expect them to actually stand up for the faith.
 
It condemns divinization of nature which is paganism/polytheism and the Synod
 
That’s an extreme passage (Jesus said it to the apostles -aka bishops-, not for the laity), Jesus does not give up on us. He walks besides us, patiently, at our rhythm. (pope Francis has said this constantly in his saint Martha homilies, so too, he warned against the temptation of proselytizing or imposing ourselves. Which did me a world of good, we don’t own the truth, and if God saw it fit to permit other religions, we are not to think ourselves better or more than others, just because -in your and mine case- we’ve had the privilege of being cradle to tomb Catholics.)

The people from Amazonia have had 500 years of missionary work already. If the pope sees it necessary and fit to adjust to who they are, today - the holy father knows best. And I do trust pope Francis, he’s been to more war torn countries than I’ll ever be. He’s been a messenger of peace, of dialogue, of understanding, and of listening.

This is where we get it wrong @(name removed by moderator) the church adjusts to the people it encounters, to better receive them. I’ve been giving my testimony in “the new evangelization”, and quite a few folks who had never been to church loved my apologetic and actually took an interested in their baptism and faith. But every success I’ve had required careful listening, and personalized adjusting taking into consideration what the person was most in need of hearing addressed.
 
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pnewton said:
Besides, I doubt anyone here even lives in the Amazon.
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Glad you mentioned it. I was planning on doing a 1000km road-trip starting from Rio de Janeiro heading south along the beaches. But after this thread going from Belém to Manaus along the Amazon river seems much more charming.
 
To date, six cardinals have openly expressed worry about such matters. One, Cardinal Marc Ouellet, is currently prefect of the Congregation for Bishops. Another, Gerhard Mueller, was, under both Benedict and Francis, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Just this week, a group of bishops, priests, and laypeople released – anonymously, for fear of reprisals – a statement identifying four major problems with the Working Document, and sent a copy to the pope:
  1. promotion of the “diversity of religions” instead of the Church as Christ’s way of salvation;
  2. acceptance of indigenous religions and adaptation of Christian rites to them;
  3. classification of indigenous ways as sources of revelation like Scripture, tradition, Church Fathers, etc.;
  4. recasting of the priesthood and women’s roles along indigenous instead of historic Catholic lines.
Source:

 
Some of these are problematic, I am sure. But based on this list, the Bible is in error for saying that the Heavens proclaim the glory of God. Most of these have a right and wrong way they can be seen. But then, if this was not the case, there would be no need for a synod.
 
pnewton said:
It has been suggested that this is Our Lady of the Amazon. Again, I can find there is no such devotion. However, it is still just as likely that the ceremony was meant to present this devotion as a suggestion prior to the synod. All such titles and devotions have their start somewhere.
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The info is available in Portuguese, and I’ll translate:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Imagem NOSSA SENHORA DA AMAZÔNIA foi aprovada em 2011, diz arquidiocese

A arquidiocese de Manaus e o Vaticano aprovaram o uso da imagem e passou a ser reconhecida oficialmente em 2011
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Image of Our Lady of the Amazon was approved in 2011, says archdiocese

The archdiocese of Manaus and the Vatican approved the use of the image that became officially recognized in 2011.
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Manaus- A news story is taking over social networks this weeks, about the approval by the Vatican of a supposed image of Our Lady of the Amazon in 2019, it was rebutted by the press office of the archdiocese of Manaus, since the approval of the image was 8 years ago, in2011, when the leader of the catholic church was still pope Benedict XVI. According to the archdiocese, the circulation of the image, in the meanwhile, by internet users, is yesterdays news.

The image, at the time, created by amazon designer Lara Denys Bonadiman, 30 yo, who was 23yo at the time, was chosen in a contest by the archdiocese of Manaus, presided by archbishop Dom Luis Soares Vieira to represent Our Lady of the Amazon, with indigenous characteristics because of the missionary area of Our Lady of the Amazon. That same year, the Vatican approved the image that has since become officially recognized.
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Manaus - Uma notícia que está tomando conta das redes sociais esta semana sobre a aprovação do Vaticano de uma suposta imagem de Nossa Senhora da Amazônia em 2019, foi rebatida pela assessoria da arquidiocese de Manaus, já que a aprovação da imagem da Santa foi há 8 anos, ou seja em 2011, quando o líder da igreja católica ainda era o Papa Bento XVI. Segundo a arquidiocese, a circulação da imagem, no entanto, divulgada pelos internautas, trata-se de uma notícia requentada.

A imagem, na época, criada pela designer amazonense Lara Denys Bonadiman, de 30 anos, que naquele ano tinha apenas 23 anos, foi a escolhida em um concurso realizado pela arquidiocese de Manaus, presidida pelo Arcebispo Dom Luis Soares Vieira para representar a Nossa Senhora da Amazônia, com características indígenas por causa da área missionária Nossa Senhora da Amazônia. No mesmo ano, o Vaticano aprovou a imagem e passou a ser reconhecida oficialmente.
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TheBomb.Com said:
It’s so amazing to see the lengths people will go to defend everything that comes out of the Vatican.
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I am yet to see a link to a video of that ceremony. Is there one in existence?
 
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Apparently from places like US Catholic. This is from an article from 2011… . .There is no set list of ex cathedra teachings, but that’s because there are only two, and both are about Mary: her Immaculate Conception (declared by Pope Pius IX in 1854 and grandfathered in after the First Vatican Council’s declaration of papal infallibility in 1870) and her bodily Assumption into heaven (declared by Pope Pius XII in 1950).

For the record, I disagree with US Catholic!!!
 
stpurl said:
Apparently from places like US Catholic. This is from an article from 2011… . .There is no set list of ex cathedra teachings, but that’s because there are only two, and both are about Mary: her Immaculate Conception (declared by Pope Pius IX in 1854 and grandfathered in after the First Vatican Council’s declaration of papal infallibility in 1870) and her bodily Assumption into heaven (declared by Pope Pius XII in 1950).

For the record, I disagree with US Catholic!!!
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I think all of these are up for discussion at the very least:
  1. Tome to Flavian , Pope Leo I, 449, on the two natures in Christ, received by the Council of Chalcedon
  2. Letter of Pope Agatho , 680, on the two wills of Christ, received by the Third Council of Constantinople
  3. Benedictus Deus , Pope Benedict XII, 1336, on the beatific vision of the just after death rather than only just prior to final judgment;
  4. Cum occasione , Pope Innocent X, 1653, condemning five propositions of Jansen as heretical
  5. Auctorem fidei , Pope Pius VI, 1794, condemning seven Jansenist propositions of the Synod of Pistoia as heretical
  6. Ineffabilis Deus , Pope Pius IX, 1854, defining the Immaculate Conception
  7. Munificentissimus Deus , Pope Pius XII, 1950, defining the Assumption of Mary
(from theologian Dr Klaus Schatz SJ in 1985)
 
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