Amazon Synod and Pagan Rituals

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Thank you for telling me about “The Others”; it seems you are attempting to accuse me of being judgmental. You seem upset also about the idea that individuals who have resolved to live in rebellion against the teachings of Christ will end up in one place, while the faithful winds up in another.
 
Honestly, I believe that many saints who were famous for their evangelization efforts would probably be criticized by the Church for their actions if they lived in today’s times. Take St. Francis of Assisi, who Pope Francis invoked in his opening prayer for the synod. He would be condemned for proselytism in today’s Church for his efforts to convert the Muslim sultan during the crusades.
 
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Emeraldlady:
Have you always thought this of the Popes or is this new to your faith? When teaching your children this principle, who do you teach them to follow if they don’t like a teaching of the Pope?
You do know that the pope is only infallible ex-cathedra, right? That’s all popes (including Francis, Benedict XVI, JPII, JPI, Paul VI…Pius X…Leo XIII…Pius V…
That doesn’t sound right. There are only 2 ex cathedra teachings. Are you saying we can pick and choose on everything else?
 
Michael Mann of The Remanant summed it up beautifully (paraphrasing)

This whole Synod makes no sense. The premise seems to be that we have much to learn from these Amazon tribes, and that they can teach us much regarding being with nature, taking care of our environment, spirituality, etc. Well if that’s true, then how can we say at the same time that we need to make reformations (married priests, women priests, etc) so to reach and convert more people in the Amazon? I thought they were the ones who were going to teach us what we don’t know! So why would we need to convert them? This whole thing makes no sense and is completely incoherent. What is really going on is that the Church is using the Amazon people like pawns to push their agenda of modernist heretical reforms. Its really demeaning when you think about it - it has nothing to do with the Amazon people. They’re simply being used.
 
As I’ve written above, I’m not a theologian, so I don’t know what eco-theology and indigenous theology are. I can surmise, however, that since they are in a document written and promulgated by the Vatican that they are legitimate branches of Catholic theology. And until you, or someone else, presents evidence to the contrary I will continue to believe that.
You are completely correct here. It’s as though so many people are on a high horse but have never bothered to even research the history of the Church’s utmost concern for mans rape of nature and disrespect for ecological communion. Here is just one statement from Pope St John Paul 20 years ago.

“Unfortunately, if we scan the regions of our planet, we immediately see that humanity has disappointed God’s expectations. Man, especially in our time, has without hesitation devastated wooded plains and valleys, polluted waters, disfigured the earth’s habitat, made the air unbreathable, disturbed the hydrogeological and atmospheric systems, turned luxuriant areas into deserts and undertaken forms of unrestrained industrialization, degrading that “flowerbed” – to use an image from Dante Alighieri (Paradiso, XXII, 151) – which is the earth, our dwelling-place. We must therefore encourage and support the “ecological conversion” which in recent decades has made humanity more sensitive to the catastrophe to which it has been heading. Man is no longer the Creator’s “steward”, but an autonomous despot, who is finally beginning to understand that he must stop at the edge of the abyss . “ - General Audience 17 January, 2001.

But I’d encourage those who think that Pope Francis has pulled the need for a Synod addressing areas like the Amazon, out of thin air, to take some to research the history of the Church regarding stewardship of nature and concern for ecology.
 
Exactly.

Bishop Lafont actually said
“Europeans must accept that other cultures know how to speak about life. In the past we thought we were the holders of the truth and others knew nothing, but now we must listen to these people.”
This blows my mind. What truth regarding life do we as the Catholic Church no longer profess?

And yes I understand that his comment referenced Europeans. However, I would argue that it is more beneficial for Europeans and the world as a whole to listen to the Catholic Church regarding truth about life and not the Amazonian people.

What truth do they hold regarding the sanctuary of life that they can possibly add to our deposit of faith???
 
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This sounds like the Protestant approach rather than the Catholic. This is how we approach evangelisation.

Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.

The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.
- Nostra Aetate 1965 Encyclical Pope St Paul VI.
 
Pope St John Paul 20 years ago.
Pope St John Paul 24 years ago.

22. Consequently, when the sense of God is lost, the sense of man is also threatened and poisoned, as the Second Vatican Council concisely states: “Without the Creator the creature would disappear … But when God is forgotten the creature itself grows unintelligible”.17 Man is no longer able to see himself as “mysteriously different” from other earthly creatures; he regards himself merely as one more living being, as an organism which, at most, has reached a very high stage of perfection. Enclosed in the narrow horizon of his physical nature, he is somehow reduced to being “a thing”, and no longer grasps the “transcendent” character of his “existence as man”. He no longer considers life as a splendid gift of God, something “sacred” entrusted to his responsibility and thus also to his loving care and “veneration”. Life itself becomes a mere “thing”, which man claims as his exclusive property, completely subject to his control and manipulation.Thus, in relation to life at birth or at death, man is no longer capable of posing the question of the truest meaning of his own existence, nor can he assimilate with genuine freedom these crucial moments of his own history. He is concerned only with “doing”, and, using all kinds of technology, he busies himself with programming, controlling and dominating birth and death. Birth and death, instead of being primary experiences demanding to be “lived”, become things to be merely “possessed” or “rejected”.Moreover, once all reference to God has been removed, it is not surprising that the meaning of everything else becomes profoundly distorted. Nature itself, from being “mater” (mother), is now reduced to being “matter”, and is subjected to every kind of manipulation. This is the direction in which a certain technical and scientific way of thinking, prevalent in present-day culture, appears to be leading when it rejects the very idea that there is a truth of creation which must be ac- knowledged, or a plan of God for life which must be respected. Something similar happens when concern about the consequences of such a “freedom without law” leads some people to the opposite position of a “law without freedom”, as for example in ideologies which consider it unlawful to interfere in any way with nature, practically “divinizing” it. Again, this is a misunderstanding of nature’s dependence on the plan of the Creator. Thus it is clear that the loss of contact with God’s wise design is the deepest root of modern man’s confusion, both when this loss leads to a freedom without rules and when it leaves man in “fear” of his freedom.
 
Many Catholics in America don’t know or simply forget that Catholic organizations such as
https://www.aim-usa.org
and
http://monasticinterreligiousdialogue.com
Have been around since Vatican II.
Simply reviewing these two websites you see that stuff like the Amazon Synod is really not new.
After Vatican II…westernized cultures exhausted the attention of religious super evangelizers …just coincidental timing. Catholic missionaries are not alone in riding bare back alongside natives in foreign places.
Deep down, I think we all know, Western culture/Church has been in decline for decades and Amazon outreach is just a continuation of evangelization in the Church.

When the Church has satisfied the need to evangelize…poof…shrinkage…like a bread dough beaten down and on its second round of rising.

Americans and Europeans been behaving like the adult child that just doesn’t seem to know how to mature and live on his/her own…still looking for breast milk.
 
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Its far more pertinent to the Amazon Synod than other statement since addresses Paganism/Polytheism, divinization of nature, etc.
 
The premise seems to be that we have much to learn from these Amazon tribes, and that they can teach us much regarding being with nature, taking care of our environment, spirituality, etc. Well if that’s true, then how can we say at the same time that we need to make reformations (married priests, women priests, etc) so to reach and convert more people in the Amazon? I thought they were the ones who were going to teach us what we don’t know! So why would we need to convert them?
I don’t see a contridiction there. For example I may have a good intellual undeestanding of the faith but struggle with my prayer life. Somebody else may have an excellent prayer life but a poor intelluctal understanding. I may be able to both teach and learn from them, and they may be able to both teach and learn from me.
 
For example I may have a good intellual undeestanding of the faith but struggle with my prayer life. Somebody else may have an excellent prayer life but a poor intelluctal understanding. I may be able to both teach and learn from them, and they may be able to both teach and learn from me.
True if you have same religion or not incompatible religions, which isn’t case here
 
Its far more pertinent to the Amazon Synod than other statement since addresses Paganism/Polytheism, divinization of nature, etc.
EV doesn’t address paganism/polytheism at all. It’s addressing secularisation. The very paragraph you bolded begins…

Moreover, once all reference to God has been removed, it is not surprising that the meaning of everything else becomes profoundly distorted. Nature itself, from being “mater” (mother), is now reduced to being “matter”, and is subjected to every kind of manipulation.

It supports the goal of the Amazon synod to return to nature as “mother”.
 
This is how we approach evangelisation.

Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.

The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.
- Nostra Aetate 1965 Encyclical Pope St Paul VI.
I bolded things that still say we need to bring the truth of Christ found in the Catholic church to the world.
 
Unless he is repeating an already infallible teaching and thus not needing to invoke infallibility, yes. Not every utterance of a pope is infallible.
 
Unless he is repeating an already infallible teaching and thus not needing to invoke infallibility, yes. Not every utterance of a pope is infallible.
So who decides what is ‘infallible’ and what is not? Say I’m a new Catholic or thinking of becoming one. How do I determine what teachings are to be accepted in faith and what I can reject?
 
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