Amazon Synod and Pagan Rituals

[Maximus1]

What?
Genesis… We were created and made God’s gardeners. Stewards.
Brother earth…Sister moon…St. Francis

 

[GiftofMercy]

God praise the Amazon Synod, May the Holy Spirit guide its progress.

Prayers for Holy Father Pope Francis

 

[Trying2overcome]

The Virgin standing on the moon, surrounded by light isn’t ‘Azec’

 

[Odilon]

Of all those allowed to speak, only 3 were of a conservative bent. It seems the left is now in charge of things and they are leading the Church to a bad place. Yes, come Holy Spirit and help the Church from sinking into the abyss.

 

[Odilon]

We are to worship God the Creator, not that which He created.

 

[adgloriam]

Of all those allowed to speak, only 3 were of a conservative bent. It seems the left is now in charge of things and they are leading the Church to a bad place. Yes, come Holy Spirit and help the Church from sinking into the abyss.

That’s what you read on some 1 person opinion article. (It was only in regard to the “Instrumentum Laboris”, which is provisional and supposed to be innovative, and experimental, in its nature and content.)

The synod will have hundreds of speakers. Many of them can’t even be placed on any quadrant, being completely off the chart (liberal/conservative doesn’t even apply outside the US. In Europe liberal means conservative.)

and you and all the other apologists for paganism masquerading as christianity

that’s an “ad hominem” attack and labeling which is against TOS and rude.

Please do read some inter-faith dialogue as it has been done since pope Paul VI.

Common sense, normal decency

Let the missionaries that spent most of their life in the Amazon speak about what that is, in that context.

 

[pnewton]

That is an interesting analogy. I have defended against part of that criticism. I have a deep sense of justice and abhor injustice. Therefore, I do not like the way many places have rolled back laws that have to exist to protect the justice process, basically from becoming too similar to the witch trials of the past, where the word of one person is enough to establish guilt. Yet this does not mean that I have even the slightest more tolerance, or less horror at child abuse.

So likewise, I can defend the Pope from what I see as slander, without even the slightest believe in idolatry. My beliefs are as orthodox as all of his critics. I would say they are even more in line with the Catholic teaching in this one area, that slander is a sin, and we must strive to give the most favorable interpretation in what we perceive in others. It is essential to preserving the truth. Yet this by know means I have the slightest acceptance of idolatry.

I will even say that I see sin in accusing others of compromising with paganism on the basis of such shallow evidence. It is better simply address the concerns with any compromise, condemning idolatry, and let God have his judgment throne back.

 

[twf]

The imagine had indigenous cultural influence…including Our Lady herself who looks like an indigenous woman in the image.

 

[cmac2]

I love all the images of Our Lady. Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Lady of La Vang, Our Lady of Akita, Our Lady of Kibeho, etc. I don’t care if the portrayal is European or not. She appears however she wants, to whomever God wills. Her physical appearance is secondary and I don’t care whether she appears European. There are a lot of images of the Virgin Mary in South and Central America where she is depicted like the people of those regions, and I’m more than just okay with that. I have a problem with statues or images of Mary that depict her naked, without a veil, and having her belly painted red. It’s an affront to the dignity and modesty of Mary, Mother most chaste and Mother most prudent. Depicting Mary breastfeeding Jesus is holy; depicting Mary naked . . . is blasphemy. So, yes. It is blasphemy. Race has nothing to do with it.

The fact that some bishops refuse to be true missionaries to the people of the Amazon would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. You can’t preach the Gospel if you teach whatever is contrary to it. Heterodoxy is not the answer. There are Christians in the Amazon who aren’t being corrected and treated like they’re too simple or too stupid to be taught about God the Father and the Holy Trinity.

Decades of poor catechism has led to this, but more contrary teachings and heresy is going to magically make them better? This is both terrible missionary work and even racist. White man’s burden under a different name.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Well, ecotheology isn’t an exclusively Catholic branch of theology.

True.

What?
Genesis… We were created and made God’s gardeners. Stewards.
Brother earth…Sister moon…St. Francis

Yes, God created us and made us caretakers, stewards of the Earth but that does not make us one with Earth or the Earth equal with humans. Humans were created in the image and likeness of God. The Earth is not.

St. Francis’ prayer is not reflective of us being equal to the Earth or the Earth being created in God’s likeness or that we should worship it but that all of creation praises God. The Earth does that by doing what God called it to do, not by being equal to humans.

The Earth is not our mother. Holy Catholic Church and the Virgin Mary, they are our Mother.

There are, however, many Catholic ecotheologians, and their studies are in line with Catholic thought.

Yes, there are but they are not the typical ones having a voice here and I am not going to debate what each of their writings are about. That is more than what could be done here on this thread.

Much of what we are seeing happening today, though, is coming from the U.N. and secular humanists and they are not Catholic. In 2015 the U.N. came out with their goals for sustainability - reuse, recycle, reproductive rights.

Hmm, what could they mean by reproductive rights - abortion rights and contraceptive. Not in line with Catholic teaching.

God bless.

 

[billsherman]

Hmm, what could they mean by reproductive rights - abortion rights and contraceptive. Not in line with Catholic teaching.

Which Catholic ecotheologians are arguing in favor of abortion? And how does the synod going to reflect these arguments.

Your complaints about ecotheology have no specifics, just a general sense of annoyance with environmentalism. Your posts read as if you are just bitter over the Church’s stance that we are commanded to care for our environment.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Which Catholic ecotheologians are arguing in favor of abortion?

So, I realize you are trying to get me to say some Catholic ecotheologian is arguing in favor of abortion but that is just not going to happen. That was not the point at all of my comments and you are just trying to twist things and debate an argument that is not there.

how does the synod going to reflect these arguments.

I didn’t say the synod is reflecting these arguments but that ecotheolgy can reflect these arguments, when coming from a secular humanist viewpoint. Again another twisting of the conversation.

Your complaints about ecotheology have no specifics, just a general sense of annoyance with environmentalism.

I have no problem with environmentalism as long as it doesn’t contradict Catholic teaching or put the Earth above humans and I did include specifics: abortion and contraceptives in regards to sustainability and again these ideas coming from a secular humanist point of view.

Your posts read as if you are just bitter over the Church’s stance that we are commanded to care for our environment.

So, that is an assumption of my thoughts and feelings on your part based on a few lines I posted on the internet. I am pretty sure you have no idea who I am so I would probably prefer you not make any assumptions. In all charity, I am pretty sure you can not read minds either.

As far as the Church’s stance on it’s teaching to care for the Earth and it’s environment, I am not bitter and if you knew me you would realize that I am very much in favor of being good stewards of the Earth but I am not following the radical godless, anti-life or anti-human extreme environmentalism that is going on right now.

My point is that human beings come first. Our souls come first. We can save the Earth and lose our souls.
Jesus asked, For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?

 

[billsherman]

My point is that human beings come first. Our souls come first. We can save the Earth and lose our souls.

I apologize for misunderstanding you.

But, ecotheology would agree with your above statement, as would every Bishop at the Synod. I’m just not sure why you seem to think that there is a problem here.

Neither the Synod, nor Catholic ecotheologians are interested in going down paths that you think they should avoid.

Sorry again for the misunderstanding, I’m sincerely trying to understand what you’re thinking, and that’s a bit messy on the internet.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I’m just not sure why you seem to think that there is a problem here.

Yes, I realize that.

Neither the Synod, nor Catholic ecotheologians are interested in going down paths that you think they should avoid.

You keep saying Catholic ecotheologians. Everyone who is an ecotheologian or who has a voice in environmentalism and sustainability around the world is NOT Catholic.

It explores the interaction between ecological values, such as sustainability and the human domination of nature.

This is what you said ecotheology explores, sustainability and human domination of nature.

These are the U.N. sustainability goals for 2030:

Overcoming the World's Challenges - The Global Goals

The climate crisis. Ensuring no one goes hungry. Human rights abuses. Extreme poverty. Problems of this scale can be overwhelming, but the Global Goals(also known as the Sustainable Development Goals or SDGs) are the solution to tackling them.

www.globalgoals.org

and this is one of the goals included, protecting the Earth by encouraging abortion:

https://www.un.org/sustainabledevel...00-women-dying-each-year-un-rights-experts-2/

So, I said nothing about the Synod, nor all the bishops at the Synod. My very first comment was only a response to your definition of ecotheology, which included sustainability and human dominion, which is targets biblical Catholic teaching.

As I said, I believe you are trying to find a debate about Catholic ecotheologians that is just not there, so with that I am bowing out of this conversation.

God bless.

 

[LilyM]

I apologize for apparently spreading “fake news”. I will not apologize for calling out the Vatican for allowing such a thing in the Vatican gardens. Every time someone asks me to trust the Pope, it’s like they’re trying to keep us sedated. Not attentive. I think it’s healthy to criticize the Pope! How else will they know how we ACTUALLY feel!

Lots of people felt and did exactly as you propose in 1500s Europe. The result was not unity but a permanent and massive sundering of the Body of Christ. That is what happens when everyone tries to out-Pope the Pope

 

[acanonlawyer]

I’ve spent a lot of years in school–Catholic, secular, liberal, conservative, you name it, I’ve been in that classroom. However, I’ve been out of school for about 10 years now and I guess I’m behind the times: “ecotheology” is a term I’d never heard of before today.

Dan

 

[JimG]

I don’t think I’ve heard of any Catholic ecotheologians.

 

[Aquinas11]

Read this in St Augustine’s Confessions this weekend, he was discussing when the Pagans were trying to convert him and it seemed pertinent

1. Still they cried, Truth, Truth, and spoke much about it to me, yet was it not in them; 1 John 2:4 but they spoke falsely not of You only — who, verily, art the Truth — but also of these elements of this world, Your creatures. And I, in truth, should have passed by philosophers, even when speaking truth concerning them, for love of You, my Father, supremely good, beauty of all things beautiful. O Truth, Truth! How inwardly even then did the marrow of my soul pant after You, when they frequently, and in a multiplicity of ways, and in numerous and huge books, sounded out Your name to me, though it was but a voice! And these were the dishes in which to me, hungering for You, they, instead of You, served up the sun and moon, Your beauteous works — but yet Your works, not Yourself, nay, nor Your first works. For before these corporeal works are Your spiritual ones, celestial and shining though they be. But I hungered and thirsted not even after those first works of Yours, but after You Yourself, the Truth, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning; James 1:17 yet they still served up to me in those dishes glowing phantasies, than which better were it to love this very sun (which, at least, is true to our sight), than those illusions which deceive the mind through the eye. And yet, because I supposed them to be You, I fed upon them; not with avidity, for You did not taste to my mouth as You are, for You were not these empty fictions; neither was I nourished by them, but the rather exhausted. Food in our sleep appears like our food awake; yet the sleepers are not nourished by it, for they are asleep. But those things were not in any way like You as You have now spoken unto me, in that those were corporeal phantasies, false bodies, than which these true bodies, whether celestial or terrestrial, which we perceive with our fleshly sight, are much more certain.

 

[CapitalistCatholic]

I’m not trying to “out-pope” the Pope anymore than journalists are trying to “out-president” the president. Wouldn’t it make sense to point out things that we, the laity, feel aren’t being done well in the Church?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Lots of people felt and did exactly as you propose in 1500s Europe. The result was not unity but a permanent and massive sundering of the Body of Christ

That isn’t the same thing. The protestant revolution was about a complete change in salvation theology.

It is unfair to the Pope to believe that every word or action of his is without error, especially today with all the news and social media going on.

Not everyone who disagrees with a fallible word or action of the Pope is a protestant revolter.