Amazon Synod idols cast in River Tiber today

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300+ posts and it’s getting a bit repetitive. I will retire to more productive and peaceful topics. Peace be with you.
 
phil19034 said:
My money… the people who threw the idols in the water believed they were doing something courageous for God and thus did not meet the conditions for Mortal Sin.
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Absolutely. I would not even suggest such a thing. This is why I can’t judge their soul, and why I was wrong for coming so close to condemnation. I will back off that line and take the correction I have received here from others.
 
Aquinas11 said:
If state of Church was healthy that would have occurred. But the fact that a lay person had to do it proves point that Church is not in healthy state.
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This is plain to see. More and more clergy are speaking out against the synod and what it is proposing. If the ideas promulgated at the synod represent the thinking of the current church hierarchy, and it does seem that way, then we have to sit up, take notice, and start to think for ourselves. We can’t continue to act like sheep.
 
Sarcelle said:
Still does not excuse what was done. In fact, it weakens our position.
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I would suggest that the opposite is true. Finally, a man stood up and acted in good conscience in support of his church. If the clergy are not capable, and too irresponsible, then it will take a courageous step like this one.
 
Unfortunately at that point it was. Whoever was in charge and had the final say, decided that this entire pagan display would be a good thing.

I can only speculate as to why they pushed for this, but the end result was that something diabolical was allowed inside the church.

In all honesty we’re not talking about burning another country’s flag or erecting effigy to mock the Amazonian people.

This is about something sinister and evil that cannot be allowed in scared and holy places.
 
Again, begging the question. In the case of the Vandals in Rome, it is forcing that opinion by action. If this is, as some have said a symbol of life, being a pregnant woman, since when did the Catholic Church cease to be pro-life
 
Again, begging the question. In the case of the Vandals in Rome, it is forcing that opinion by action. If this is, as some have said a symbol of life, being a pregnant woman, since when did the Catholic Church cease to be pro-life?

Do we not use pictures of the unborn, and other artistic elements, as symbols of life all the time? I can’t help but see a real strong cultural bias in this action.

More to the point, the next time some feminists takes matters into her hands and in good conscience destroys our symbols of life, will we accept it with such understanding?
 
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Sarcelle said:
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phil19034:
However, what about the lack of judgment by the clergy in allowing those idols in the first place?
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I am concerned by that too and worried to be honest.

Still does not excuse what was done. In fact, it weakens our position.
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  • I applaud the fact that it was done.
  • I deplore the fact that it needed to be done in the first place.
  • I applaud the fact that a lay person had the courage to stand up and do this.
  • I deplore the fact that a lay person had to do it because none of the authorized clergy have the courage to stand up and do it themselves.
  • And I generally do not condone people taking matters into their own hands, acting as vigaliaties. However, there was a GREAT INJUSTICE being done and someone stood up to rectify it.
  • Finally, I do not believe the ends justify the means.
The whole situation is a complete mess and that ultimately falls upon the modernist at the Vatican and who are part of this Synod.

Regardless - I can see to both the good and bad from this situation WITHOUT claiming the ends justify the means. To me - celebrating the removal of these idols is not different that celebrating the birth of a child born out of formication or adultry. I can celebrate the outcome without condoning any sinful actions.

God Bless.
 
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I am all for “meeting people where they are,” but the end goal of the mission is to bring them out of error and paganism and into the ONE CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST.

Is not the mission to make disciples of all nations? Is not Catholicism the FULLNESS OF FAITH? There is One God and He has One Son.

Is one of Pope Francis’s jobs to make the world Catholic? Isn’t it his job to get non-Catholics to leave their errors behind and adopt the True Faith in the One God in Three Persons? If I’m wrong, please tell me what the correct situation is, because it seems like Francis is far more interested in letting people go on doing what they’re doing rather than preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Church’s mission is to convert the non-believers - NOT to bring paganism into our holy spaces.
 
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pnewton said:
Do we not use pictures of the unborn, and other artistic elements, as symbols of life all the time? I can’t help but see a real strong cultural bias in this action.
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What you are proposing is idol worship. Feel free to go to the Amazon, or your basement and indulge. But NOT AT ST. PETER’S IN ROME.
 
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Adamek said:
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pnewton:
Do we not use pictures of the unborn, and other artistic elements, as symbols of life all the time? I can’t help but see a real strong cultural bias in this action.
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What you are proposing is idol worship.
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No, it is not. It has been part of the pro-life movement in the United States for a long time. We understand the difference. Why is it so hard to accept others can understand the difference, if not for our prejudice? If any thing, the attitudes here show me why such a synod might be in order. I do not know the Western Catholics can detach themselves from their culture and see their own bias.
Adamek said:
Yes, it is.
No, it is not.
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Then don’t make such accusations. “No, it is not” was simply the nicest reply I could think of to such a person.
 
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phil19034 said:
celebrating the removal of these idols is not different that celebrating the birth of a child born out of formication or adultry.
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No its more like celebrating the removal of a predator from a Catholic female dormitory
 
pnewton said:
Again, begging the question. In the case of the Vandals in Rome, it is forcing that opinion by action. If this is, as some have said a symbol of life, being a pregnant woman, since when did the Catholic Church cease to be pro-life?

Do we not use pictures of the unborn, and other artistic elements, as symbols of life all the time? I can’t help but see a real strong cultural bias in this action.

More to the point, the next time some feminists takes matters into her hands and in good conscience destroys our symbols of life, will we accept it with such understanding?
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We don’t take a picture of the unborn or a pregnant woman and dance around it after placing it in the center of a worship/prayer circle. We also don’t lay prostrate to them.

What was done with the icons at in the Vatican garden cannot be ignored. It was a pagan ritual, done by modernists Catholics and poorly catechized Catholics.

Not to mention the fact that some of them did NOT look like they live an indigenous lifestyle in the Amazon.
 
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Adamek said:
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Sarcelle:
Still does not excuse what was done. In fact, it weakens our position.
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I would suggest that the opposite is true. Finally, a man stood up and acted in good conscience in support of his church. If the clergy are not capable, and too irresponsible, then it will take a courageous step like this one.
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I actually agree. I think it will galvanize more people to stand up for the Truth in the long run.
 
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pnewton said:
Western Catholics can detach themselves from their culture and see their own bias.
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Well. Finally the real issue emerges. We are the evil Western Catholics (remember what pope Francis had to say about that). We are not “woke”. We still have our own faith, traditions, beliefs, the Bible.
Now we have to adopt Pakemama. This will make everything great.
 
pnewton said:
Again, begging the question. In the case of the Vandals in Rome, it is forcing that opinion by action. If this is, as some have said a symbol of life, being a pregnant woman, since when did the Catholic Church cease to be pro-life?

Do we not use pictures of the unborn, and other artistic elements, as symbols of life all the time? I can’t help but see a real strong cultural bias in this action.
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Cmon, man: When did we make statues or icons out of foetuses and pregnancies and venerate them in church next to images of Jesus, Mary, and the saints? We venerate our holy persons- specific people, not generalized ‘pregnancies’, ‘fertility’ and ‘life’. What is that, even? Don’t know about the prolife events where you go to church, but such pictures are used to educate, not made part of our ceremonies.
 
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Thank you for the good ( and sad) laugh bro for the truth beyond the sarcasm. God bless you
 
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