America’s History of Fear

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My family goes back to the 1600’s. We have our soldiers fighting wars; my uncle went behind enemy lines incognito among the Nazis and Communists…and worked to decipher Russian and Chinese code during the Cold War. My family always upheld human dignity. War was nothing ever to brag about. We always upheld the poor and suffering. My neighbors were communist and the husband was one of those who instigated the Pennsylvania coal miner riots in the early 70’s. Yet my mother cared for his infant daughter, and my father would spend time talking to him because he was still a human being.

Blacks moved into our neighborhood and my father said we don’t move out because of people’s skin color. My son decided to go this inner city school. Since he was 14, he travelled 28 miles a day throughout high school and most of the kids were black. The Catholic school got them on track and only two were not going to college because they fooled around. Hope they eventually can go. My son loved the kids and they loved him.

And yet I meet young people who think the world’s problems are based on the American white businessman, the white Anglo Saxon male. That is a lie.

The problem in the world is sin. We all have it.

And where I come from, you bring up the Indians…well here they enslaved other Indians. Indians also did their share of inhumane acts of torture and abuse.

So you see, we are all equal.

When someone is suffering or has bad memories…you don’t shove some thing on a vulnerable peoples that was traumatized by most horrific event.

You don’t have to be an American to realize that. And most people in the world agree you don’t further abuse people’s memory and push your way on them.

I work in health care and to push yourself, your values, your ideas on a vulnerable person is considered unethical.
 
Dianaid,

I eventually found it on Human Events…Michelle Malkin, ‘Eternal Flame of Muslim Outrage’…

The FBI disproved the Imam the day after he made his threat about national security if we move the mosque. And in the past years, the FBI checked out all the claims of prejudice against Muslims living here, and 80% proved bogus.
 
For all who would bring up the intolerance in Christian history …
The intolerance of Christians in the Middle Ages and Early Modern Era does not excuse the intolerance of Muslims, a reality in the here and now.
 
The problem in the world is sin. We all have it.
And where I come from, you bring up the Indians…well here they enslaved other Indians. Indians also did their share of inhumane acts of torture and abuse.
Native Americans also did ritual torture, committed genocide, human sacrifice and cannibalism against their enemies.
As before, the crimes of Americans against Natives do not excuse the crimes of Muslims against non-Muslims.
 
Viveret…

WE LOVE NEW YORK!!!

God bless you and know that when we were watching films from 9/11, it caused people here to have deep sympathy again for New York, and hope for a better future!
 
People do not realize that the greatest atrocities committed against the Aztecs was not by the Spaniards but by the surrounding, neighboring Indian tribes who lost their young people to human sacrifice.

The Spaniards recorded the fiercest fighting at the end by the Indians who suffered their own losses, and tried to stop them but the Indians had too much sense of retribution towards the Aztecs…who had great fear of the night god, the crescent moon…using human sacrifice to appease in hopes the sun would return the next day. Human sacrifice was a human occurrence and at one time, the Aztecs sacrificed many thousands in a particular period.

So there is no innocent human race…the only true victim is Jesus Christ.
 
As before, the crimes of Americans against Natives do not excuse the crimes of Muslims against non-Muslims.
I agree. No crime against the well being of another person is excusable. However, if we are going to point out the crimes of one group of people we should be prepared to acknowledge our own. That is a fairly simple idea I think. If someone brings up the crimes of one group of people, I can be counted on to bring up my own and any others I see as well. Why? Because we all have blame. That’s the point.
 
When people are mistreated and systematically ignored inspite of their vehement protests to this promotional islam site, yes, they will revert.

So Sufjon, I hope you can also learn to let people heal by respecting their boundaries…and not bring up some ‘sainted’ peoples hundreds of years ago to prove your point.

‘Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, and today is as a present.’

We are called to live in the present and recognize the dignity of people of today.
 
When people are mistreated and systematically ignored inspite of their vehement protests to this promotional islam site, yes, they will revert.

So Sufjon, I hope you can also learn to let people heal by respecting their boundaries…and not bring up some ‘sainted’ peoples hundreds of years ago to prove your point.

‘Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, and today is as a present.’

We are called to live in the present and recognize the dignity of people of today.
Sure. let’s bury all the things we did and focus on what happened to us. This is a truly amazing approach. Anyway, I am leaving this particular post. I think this battle you are participating in between east and west has gone on for a long time and it will go on for a long time still. I do hope that both sides find some way to heal though. It’s not my fight. It’s between you and them.
 
Well, I hope it doesn’t affect either you or I…this war between East and West…

Best to you!
 
Well, I hope it doesn’t affect either you or I…this war between East and West…

Best to you!
It’s not affecting me and it probably won’t. Statistically speaking it probably won’t affect you either, and I am glad for that. I would be more glad to see you live your life without all of this fretting, but I can’t do anything about that, except to keep pointing out that you can. At the moment I am only adding to your troubles by suggesting you can get past them, and this is why I’m stopping here by saying that I have fond hopes that you will get past all of this and be happier.

Sufjon
 
Dianaid,

I eventually found it on Human Events…Michelle Malkin, ‘Eternal Flame of Muslim Outrage’…

The FBI disproved the Imam the day after he made his threat about national security if we move the mosque. And in the past years, the FBI checked out all the claims of prejudice against Muslims living here, and 80% proved bogus.
Ah, yes, thank you. I found it.

Not new news, certainly. We are very familiar with this sort of thing.

Isn’t it ironic how they can issue death threats, dance in the streets in celebration on 9/11, imprison and murder people for slips of the tongue, cartoons…and advertising logos…but in the face of an insult to the level this mosque would be, WE are at fault if we point out that, ahem, it IS an insult?
 
What we are witnessing is pathological, narcissistic self-justification. Some of those we see out on the streets are the poorest and being incited by their leaders…some are paid as is the case in Iran.

The frightening thing, once you are labelled the aggressor by this mentality, you can be on their ‘radar’ for atleast the next thousand years. It is the epi center of both peace and continual fratricide. I pray the empassioned ‘flames’ there do not end up destroying our world. All the answers to goodness for mankind are there as well in the Holy Land.

September 11 was a date of defeat for Islam how many years ago?? They finally achieved their payback.

Interestingly enough, America’s first war was with the Barbery prirates, famous for kidnapping European girls and making them sex slaves for their Muslim masters. They were stripped, enchained and put up on stands, ready for use…I saw paintings of them…some girls with crucifixes still around their necks…I think I read too much of Islam following 9/11.

I agree with John Paul that the only remedy is prayer and penance…and much, much forgiveness.
 
On a slightly different tack… I question our military response to Muslim extremism.

Consider the following facts: WW1 - 10% of all casualties = civilian; WW2 50% of all casulaties = civilian; Vietnam - 70% of all casualties were civilian; Iraq (OIF) - 90% of all casualties were civilian.

With a kill rate of 9 innocents for every bad guy, we are not doing very well. While we did actually target civilians during WW2 and Vietnam, that is not the case in today’s wars. The nature of war has changed, with the tactics of public bombings, and using civilians for and urban areas for cover.

Those who make the case that the way that trying to address the problem through violence only increases the problem may be correct. As a former Marine, I am not squeamish about the use of force where appropriate. I also came to believe from first hand experience that war does not always bring peace. The popular phrase that every president going to war uses is that we are doing so to keep the peace. That is often untrue.
 
On a slightly different tack… I question our military response to Muslim extremism.

Consider the following facts: WW1 - 10% of all casualties = civilian; WW2 50% of all casulaties = civilian; Vietnam - 70% of all casualties were civilian; Iraq (OIF) - 90% of all casualties were civilian.

With a kill rate of 9 innocents for every bad guy, we are not doing very well. While we did actually target civilians during WW2 and Vietnam, that is not the case in today’s wars. The nature of war has changed, with the tactics of public bombings, and using civilians for and urban areas for cover.

Those who make the case that the way that trying to address the problem through violence only increases the problem may be correct. As a former Marine, I am not squeamish about the use of force where appropriate. I also came to believe from first hand experience that war does not always bring peace. The popular phrase that every president going to war uses is that we are doing so to keep the peace. That is often untrue.
Could you give me the source of the facts you present? True, I wasn’t born for either WW1 or II, but I remember the very different sorts of wars they were—and the REASON that the civilian casualty rate was so high in WWII.

As for Vietnam and Iraq–considering the sort of war both of those engagements are/were, I really need to see the source of your information, and how that source defines ‘civilian.’ For one thing, I remember my then fiance’ telling me how he and his unit were pinned down for two days, unable to move, until another unit came up behind their attackers and defeated them, killing about half of the nearly 300

…the North Vietmanese screamed bloody murder over it because they claimed that those people (armed to the teeth, by the way, and quite efficiently pinning thirty men down in a rather nasty swamp) were civilians. They were called ‘simple farmers’ and 'village" people.

Every single one of which was armed with Soviet and Chinese manufactured automatics and rifles, and not one of which was exactly a ‘local’ farmer type.

Eventually my fiance’ was killed over there. By a ‘civilian.’ So…not that I doubt that you are giving me information that you deem accurate, I really would like to see your source.
 
Estimates vary, depending on the source. Here is a summary for OIF civilian deaths:

Source
Iraq Family Health Survey . . . 151,000 deaths June 2006
Lancet survey . . . . . . . . . . . 601,027 deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths June 2006
Opinion Research Business 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict August 2007
Associated Press . . . . . . . . .110,600 deaths April 2009
Iraq Body Count project . . . . . .95,888 — 104,595 deaths April 2010

The estimates of actual insurgents killed varies too, but is generally less than 10% of these numbers.

WW2 marks the turning point in modern warfare in which civilians were determined to be legitimate targets. I am no historian, so I may be wrong. But that is my understanding.
 
The official count of hostiles killed from the US military combined with the Iraqi Defense Ministry through 2009 is just under 22,000. This number is considered to be exaggerated. Nobody knows for sure what the real number is, but anecdotal evidence would suggest that is might be as low as 20% or as high as 50% of what has been claimed.
 
Estimates vary, depending on the source. Here is a summary for OIF civilian deaths:

Source
Iraq Family Health Survey . . . 151,000 deaths
June 2006
Lancet survey . . . . . . . . . . . 601,027 deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths June 2006
Opinion Research Business 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict August 2007
Associated Press . . . . . . . . .110,600 deaths April 2009
Iraq Body Count project . . . . . .95,888 — 104,595 deaths April 2010

The estimates of actual insurgents killed varies too, but is generally less than 10% of these numbers.

WW2 marks the turning point in modern warfare in which civilians were determined to be legitimate targets. I am no historian, so I may be wrong. But that is my understanding.
I looked these up individually, and the numbers don’t all match up; for instance, the IFHS report of this year doesn’t address war casualties, at all.

Could you tell me where you got this aggregated set of numbers? Thanks.
 
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