Amy Coney Barrett for Supreme Court Justice

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It absolutely is.
I disagree. So either of us continuing to repeat ourselves would seem to be fruitless here.
Does this belief allow support for abortion?
Recognizing reality is not the same as support for abortion.
You mean that abortion is the preeminent issue?
Among many other things, yes. Cherry-picking is not a good way to read either Scripture or information from the Church hierarchy.
 
I very much want to help the poor and sick and hungry.

I would also like people to survive long enough to qualify for that.

Caring for the poor means nothing if you support preemptively killing them off.
Like I said nobody ‘supports’ killing anyone.

But if you think voting for Trump will help the poor who are sick, hungry, in prison and those who are strangers/immigrants, then you should definitely vote for him. If this is indeed true about Trump, then the Christ will be very pleased, because that is the only criteria he specified in Matthew 25:31-46.

But if keeping abortion legal or making it illegal is your ONLY criteria, then you should note that Mussolini was also strongly anti-abortion!
 
Do you know another preeminent issue?
Preeminent does not mean only. There are many other issues at stake in this particular election, which have been brought up repeatedly and dismissed out of hand as either false or irrelevant by some. And a very important point that the Bishops make, that has also been disputed here, is that one is allowed to support a candidate that has positions contrary to Catholic doctrine so long as that support is not because of those positions. But if the combined opinions of the Bishops gathered together as the USCCB don’t convince someone of that, then nothing I have to say will matter either.
 
The danger of four more Trump years makes voting for the other party’s candidate, and not staying home or voting third party, imperative.
You are the one saying the ends don’t justify the means.
 

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
 
No matter who is elected we will still be debating this particular issue 4, 8, 12…100 years from now. It isn’t ever going to change signifantly from a legal or political perspective. Neither group of politicians want the issue gone. The mere existence of abortion benefits both side politically. It is a division that makes harvesting votes quite easy.
 
So when you say cherry picking, in reference to preeminent issues
I did not mention cherry picking in reference to preeminent issues, I mentioned cherry picking in reference to the entire text of the USCCB guidance on voting. Which I suspect you already knew.
 
Not going to rise to the bait. Nowhere did I say anything about what you should or should not do with respect to deciding your vote. I merely pointed out that your apparent insistence that a faithful Catholic must vote against Biden is not borne out by the facts or the teaching of the USCCB. So you can stop trying to put words in my mouth any old time now.
 
You are the one saying the ends don’t justify the means.
Yep. The end is a few Supremes, who might someday overturn Roe, If a case comes before the Court, in which the States will be allowed to regulate it.

The means are voting for a person that isn’t fit to be President.
 
Yep. The end is a few Supremes, who might someday overturn Roe, If a case comes before the Court, in which the States will be allowed to regulate it.

The means are voting for a person that isn’t fit to be President.
That would also apply to voting for Biden to get rid of Trump.
 
Not going to rise to the bait.
?
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Nowhere did I say anything about what you should or should not do with respect to deciding your vote.
I didn’t imply you did.
I did, however, wonder what exactly you want considered over and above the preeminent issue.
I merely pointed out that your apparent insistence that a faithful Catholic must vote against Biden is not borne out by the facts or the teaching of the USCCB.
You must point out this insistence. I have made none.
I have, however, pointed out that there are more moral alternatives to voting for a pro-abortion candidate should one not wish to vote for Trump.
So you can stop trying to put words in my mouth any old time now.
I have never attempted to do so.
 
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MikeInVA:
Actually, I don’t think the USCCB has the authority to teach.
And I think that says a lot about you.
I think it says he at least is aware of the lack of teaching authority of episcopal conferences.

“No episcopal conference, as such, has a teaching mission; its documents have no weight of their own save that of the consent given to them by the individual bishops.” (Cardinal Ratzinger: The RatzingerReport, p60)
But if you think voting for Trump will help the poor who are sick, hungry, in prison…
Regarding those in prison, Trump recently signed a major prison reform bill, The First Step Act, which undoes a lot of the damage done by the Drug Abuse Bill of 1986 co-sponsored by…Biden.
And in any case, neither the R nor the D in this election is absolutely opposed to all abortions, so there is a level of support there either way.
This is a case of making the perfect the enemy of the good. While neither party may be perfect (an unattainable standard in any case) the contrast between the parties on abortion is stark.
I don’t think the President has a huge impact on abortions.
Reducing the funding of Planned Parenthood is fairly significant, so are the Mexico City accords, and so is the fact that the possibility of the Hyde Amendment being eliminated and there being public funding of abortions is zero as long as Trump is president.
 
No matter how many times you say it, it still isn’t true. And in any case, neither the R nor the D in this election is absolutely opposed to all abortions, so there is a level of support there either way.
But that isn’t Catholic Catechism, that teaches us to vote for whom is most pro-life not the perfect pro-lifer.

Sometimes, people argue that one is more pro-life because of how “personhood” is defined. That’s another issue for now.
 
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If one cannot vote for Trump, and they also do not wish to support abortion, they have two other moral options available.
  1. don’t vote at all.
  2. vote your own write in.
That’s what Democrats want prolife people to do; abdicate responsibility and thereby support abortion by default. Be assured, the pro-abortion people will not follow this advice.
 
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