An Eternity in Hell for a Moment of Sin

[Ramalama]

In this thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=141754

Fr. Serpa says a man killed after a mortal sin, before confession, will spend eternity in hell. I’m having great difficulty reconciling this with a loving, forgiving God.

According to this, if the Pope was shot and with his dying breath used the Lord’s name in vain, he would spend eternity in hell.

Can anybody help me with this?

 

[PennitentMan]

It’s not as cut and dry as that.

The crux lies in the unrepentant sinner.

If you die after comitting a mortal sin, but in your heart you are sorry, and fully intended to go to confession at the first opportunity, God sees that.

God is love, He wants us to love Him back. He is ready to forgive before we even say the words…it’s the intention that counts, just like the Prodigal son parable.

So, Mortal sin definately removes us from God’s grace, but if we die before confession (and I mean at the first opportunity to do so), we will be judged on our intentions and remorse, and mercy will be shown if we are sorry for what we did.

I hope that helps!

PM

 

[fix]

The point is the person must die without repenting to be culpable. A mortal sin does not happen by accident. Stress, and other factors, may lessen culpability.

 

[buffalo]

In this thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=141754

Fr. Serpa says a man killed after a mortal sin, before confession, will spend eternity in hell. I’m having great difficulty reconciling this with a loving, forgiving God.

According to this, if the Pope was shot and with his dying breath used the Lord’s name in vain, he would spend eternity in hell.

Can anybody help me with this?

God is perfect, perfectly merciful as well as perfectly just.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Looking at it from the ‘other side’. . .what of the man who spends his life doing evil and then at the last minute has full repentence. Has he ‘earned’ an eternity in heaven for a moment of good?

I’m reminded of the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The merchant went out and offered work to people at 7 a.m., 9 a.m., noon, 3 p.m. and finally 5 p.m., saying for each group, “Come and work for me and I will pay you what is just.”

At the end of the day, he started paying out the wages for a full day–to the people who had worked from 5 p.m., then 3 p.m., then noon, etc. etc.

When he got back to the people who had started early, they expected to get more than those who hadn’t worked so much as they had. But they got exactly the same wage.

And they grumbled. And the merchant said, "Look here, when I asked you to come, you agreed to a just wage, didn’t you? I’m paying you a full day’s wages, aren’t I? I am the one paying the wages, am I not allowed to spend money as I see fit? Or is it just that you are jealous because I am generous?

Every time I see the “it’s not fair that a person should be condemned for one itty bitty fault”, I think, “bet they aren’t going to complain if they get to heaven for one itty bitty virtuous act”.

God is generous and God is just. Nobody (as has been pointed out) condemns himself/herself ‘by accident’. God isn’t out for the ‘gotcha!’ or to cramp our style by trying to get us to stumble–just once.

 

[I_Leatherman]

In this thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=141754

Fr. Serpa says a man killed after a mortal sin, before confession, will spend eternity in hell. I’m having great difficulty reconciling this with a loving, forgiving God.

According to this, if the Pope was shot and with his dying breath used the Lord’s name in vain, he would spend eternity in hell.

Can anybody help me with this?

It is’nt just a case of saying words and landing yourself in hell for eternity.
A sin that is mortal, is a conscious decision by that person to reject God and heaven. Is God then going to do violence to that person and physically force them into heaven against their will? More likely He will persue that person through their conscience so they might freely choose Him again.

 

[Ramalama]

First, I appreciate your replies. Please note that I’m really trying to understand, not just debate.

In Fr. Serpa’s story (in the link’ed post) the man, presumably a just, holy Catholic, commits a mortal sin, maybe his first in decades. Lets assume that if he had time to think about what he did he would repentant and ask for forgiveness. Unfortunately, he dies moments later.

Some of you have implied God would judge the man’s entire life - that sounds reasonable and what I expected. That’s not what Fr. Serpa said. He said he would spend eternity in hell. I can’t say how wrong that seems to me.

Protestations that God is just and will do the right thing work for me. Is Fr. Serpa misinformed?

Let me add a bit of a personal note. My wife and I, both Catholic candidates, were discussing this last night. She got angry, saying maybe this isn’t the religion for her. I didn’t go that far, but the more I think about this, the more angry I get! Help!

 

[DallasCatholic]

First, I appreciate your replies. Please note that I’m really trying to understand, not just debate.

In Fr. Serpa’s story (in the link’ed post) the man, presumably a just, holy Catholic, commits a mortal sin, maybe his first in decades. Lets assume that if he had time to think about what he did he would repentant and ask for forgiveness. Unfortunately, he dies moments later.

Some of you have implied God would judge the man’s entire life - that sounds reasonable and what I expected. That’s not what Fr. Serpa said. He said he would spend eternity in hell. I can’t say how wrong that seems to me.

Protestations that God is just and will do the right thing work for me. Is Fr. Serpa misinformed?

Let me add a bit of a personal note. My wife and I, both Catholic candidates, were discussing this last night. She got angry, saying maybe this isn’t the religion for her. I didn’t go that far, but the more I think about this, the more angry I get! Help!

No, Fr. Serpa is not misinformed. His response is in line with some of the other responses in this forum. Specifically Fr. Serpa said:

If he is able to ask pardon of the Lord in the last seconds of his life, he can be forgiven and go to Purgatory. If not, he will go to hell for all eternity.

The main point is whether or not the man repents in those final moments…and who in their right mind wouldn’t repent?

 

[fix]

In Fr. Serpa’s story (in the link’ed post) the man, presumably a just, holy Catholic, commits a mortal sin, maybe his first in decades. Lets assume that if he had time to think about what he did he would repentant and ask for forgiveness. Unfortunately, he dies moments later.

We never know when our soul will be required to stand before Jesus and render an account. That is why it is important to try to lead a holy life and to repent, and get to confession if possible, as soon as we are aware we have commited a mortal sin.

Is it your question that it seems unfair God would hold us to this standard?

 

[I_Leatherman]

Ramalama:

…Lets assume that if he had time to think about what he did…

This is sort of the point. You cannot commit a mortal sin unknowingly. You cannot reject God unknowingly.
A mortal sin, I suppose, can be just a manifestation of a conscious decision to reject God. Any act could be a mortal sin if that is what you want it to be and that is why you do it. So you have first to think about what you are doing and then decide to do it.

Throwing rabbits at someone could be a mortal sin if you intend that throwing the rabbit is your way of rejecting God. Some rabbits are recognized and have been named;
1.1 Lust (Latin, luxuria)
1.2 Gluttony (Latin, gula)
1.3 Greed (Latin, avaritia)
1.4 Sloth (Latin, acedia)
1.5 Wrath/anger (Latin, ira)
1.6 Envy (Latin, invidia)
1.7 Pride ( Latin, superbia)

 

[Ramalama]

We never know when our soul will be required to stand before Jesus and render an account. That is why it is important to try to lead a holy life and to repent, and get to confession if possible, as soon as we are aware we have commited a mortal sin.

Is it your question that it seems unfair God would hold us to this standard?

Why can’t I make this clear? The guy blew it. We all do. Maybe he died moments before getting his head on straight - without warning - his brain under wheels of a very big bus. For that, and a lifetime of worship, rosaries, prayer, donations, good works, etc., he spends a eternity in hell!

That’s what I don’t think is fair. He’s judged on that afternoon, or maybe 30 minutes of his life. That’s not right.

 

[johnpaul2_fan]

I would reccomend looking into the requirments for a sin to be mortal.

"Three things are necessary for a sin to be mortal:

1. Serious matter (things listed in this examination);
2. Knowledge or firm belief that the act is seriously wrong prior to committing the act;
3. Full consent of the will.

All three of these conditions must be present simultaneously for a sin to be mortal. This means that if you did not know the act was seriously wrong, then you are not guilty of having committed a mortal sin. If you did not will the act, e.g., if you were forced or if it was in a dream, if you were impaired or emotionally distraught or terrified, etc., you are not guilty of the act
committed."

cin.org/users/james/questions/q126.htm

Also maybe checking a few articals that explain why there is mortal sin, or go more in depth.

holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/markshea/sheavings/44.asp

cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=145

 

[HailMary]

In this thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=141754

Fr. Serpa says a man killed after a mortal sin, before confession, will spend eternity in hell. I’m having great difficulty reconciling this with a loving, forgiving God.

According to this, if the Pope was shot and with his dying breath used the Lord’s name in vain, he would spend eternity in hell.

Can anybody help me with this?

Was not Adams sin “moment of sin” and he was cast out of natural paradise?

note: Adam and Eve did not see God as He truly is, hence, “natural” beatitude.

 

[bilop]

Why can’t I make this clear? The guy blew it. We all do. Maybe he died moments before getting his head on straight - without warning - his brain under wheels of a very big bus. For that, and a lifetime of worship, rosaries, prayer, donations, good works, etc., he spends a eternity in hell!

That’s what I don’t think is fair. He’s judged on that afternoon, or maybe 30 minutes of his life. That’s not right.

Presumably, a person who was as good a Catholic as you say would repent a mortal sin right away. If you are talking about instantaneous death right as the sin is committed; well that brings to mind the old saying “hard cases make bad laws”. It is very dangerous to generalize about salvation from very specific, challenging contrived situations. I wouldn’t base my faith or lack of it on these 1 in a million situations. In general, people have the opportunity to repent, and that is what the moral law enivisons.

Remember, God is all knowing and will apply justice. He knows if a person would have repented if given the extra moment, and He can give the extra moment to those who will use it well. Things like these exteme cases we must leave to the mercy and justness of the Lord.

God Bless,

 

[HailMary]

In this thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=141754

Fr. Serpa says a man killed after a mortal sin, before confession, will spend eternity in hell. I’m having great difficulty reconciling this with a loving, forgiving God.

According to this, if the Pope was shot and with his dying breath used the Lord’s name in vain, he would spend eternity in hell.

Can anybody help me with this?

You can’t just look at the negative side (if a person dies in mortal sin, he goes to hell)

Consider the example of the “good” thief. He most likely lived a life of sin and at the last moment, did a confession and was cannonlized a saint by Our Lord.

Gods is MERCIFUL and JUST. One does not out due the other.

 

[DallasCatholic]

Why can’t I make this clear? The guy blew it. We all do. Maybe he died moments before getting his head on straight - without warning - his brain under wheels of a very big bus. For that, and a lifetime of worship, rosaries, prayer, donations, good works, etc., he spends a eternity in hell!

That’s what I don’t think is fair. He’s judged on that afternoon, or maybe 30 minutes of his life. That’s not right.

No where does Fr. Serpa state that the “guy blew it!”. Fr. Serpa clearly states just the opposite (see my previous post). You are assuming the person did not repent…how can you know that? If I saw the wheels of a very big bus about to crush my head the FIRST thought in my head would be “Oh, God please forgive me.” I cannot remember which devotion (First Friday, brown scapular?..someone else can fill it in correctly.) contains the promise that we will have time to repent before our death. Why would you believe that God would not give us time to repent before death?

 

[Ramalama]

No where does Fr. Serpa state that the “guy blew it!”. Fr. Serpa clearly states just the opposite (see my previous post). You are assuming the person did not repent…how can you know that? If I saw the wheels of a very big bus about to crush my head the FIRST thought in my head would be “Oh, God please forgive me.” I cannot remember which devotion (First Friday, brown scapular?..someone else can fill it in correctly.) contains the promise that we will have time to repent before our death. Why would you believe that God would not give us time to repent before death?

You’re correct, Fr. Serpa didn’t say “the guy blew it”, I did.

So, the net I get out of this is, if I commit a moral sin, God will give me time to repent. What a great deal - you’re right, who wouldn’t. Now where was that lady that ask me to lunch? I’m sure you get where I’m going here.

I really do appreciate all your responses. Maybe I need to spend some serious time with Sister Joanne (our RICA leader). Thanks again for your help.

 

[fix]

You’re correct, Fr. Serpa didn’t say “the guy blew it”, I did.

So, the net I get out of this is, if I commit a moral sin, God will give me time to repent. What a great deal - you’re right, who wouldn’t. Now where was that lady that ask me to lunch? I’m sure you get where I’m going here.

I really do appreciate all your responses. Maybe I need to spend some serious time with Sister Joanne (our RICA leader). Thanks again for your help.

There is no gaurantee. As they say we generally die as we lived. We depend totally upon the mercy of the Lord. Yes, we can lose our salvation through mortal sin. Yes, that may happen in one instant, but we always have a choice.

I guess my point is we ought not presume on God’s mercy. We, also, ought not be scrupulous. What is that part of the bible where He talks about death coming like a thief in the night? We need to be always prepared to meet our Lord.

 

[setter]

You’re correct, Fr. Serpa didn’t say “the guy blew it”, I did.

So, the net I get out of this is, if I commit a moral sin, God will give me time to repent. What a great deal - you’re right, who wouldn’t. Now where was that lady that ask me to lunch? I’m sure you get where I’m going here.

I really do appreciate all your responses. Maybe I need to spend some serious time with Sister Joanne (our RICA leader). Thanks again for your help.

One must not be guilty opf the sin of presumption, by assuming that God’s grace will be available after wantonly and willfully committing mortal sin. God is not mocked. As John Paull II reiterated his predecesor Pius XI, “the sin of the century is the loss of the sense of sin”:

It is inevitable therefore that in this situation there is an obscuring also of the sense of sin, which is closely connected with the moral conscience, the search for truth and the desire to make a responsible use of freedom. When the conscience is weakened the sense of God is also obscured, and as a result, with the loss of this decisive inner point of reference, the sense of sin is lost. This explains why my predecessor Pius XI, one day declared, in words that have almost become proverbial, that “the sin of the century is the loss of the sense of sin.”(100)

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_02121984_reconciliatio-et-paenitentia_en.html

 

[DallasCatholic]

You’re correct, Fr. Serpa didn’t say “the guy blew it”, I did.

So, the net I get out of this is, if I commit a moral sin, God will give me time to repent. What a great deal - you’re right, who wouldn’t. Now where was that lady that ask me to lunch? I’m sure you get where I’m going here.

I really do appreciate all your responses. Maybe I need to spend some serious time with Sister Joanne (our RICA leader). Thanks again for your help.

That would fall under persumption of God’s mercy which would be an extremely dangerous thing to do…and is a sin in and of itself if I am not mistaken. Yes, by all means speak with your RCIA leader on this…hopefully Sister Joanne is orthodox and can answer your questions fully.