An Eternity in Hell for a Moment of Sin

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Why can’t I make this clear? The guy blew it. We all do. Maybe he died moments before getting his head on straight - without warning - his brain under wheels of a very big bus. For that, and a lifetime of worship, rosaries, prayer, donations, good works, etc., he spends a eternity in hell!

That’s what I don’t think is fair. He’s judged on that afternoon, or maybe 30 minutes of his life. That’s not right.
Consider what you are suggesing about God. Here is a man who was bound for heaven for his whole life, and who would still be bound for heaven after he “got his head on straight” again. But God, who loves him with a boundless love, allowed him to die in the tiny window that would send him to hell. This is what you are hypothesizing.
 
In Fr. Serpa’s story (in the link’ed post) the man, presumably a just, holy Catholic, commits a mortal sin, maybe his first in decades. Lets assume that if he had time to think about what he did he would repentant and ask for forgiveness. Unfortunately, he dies moments later.
First, we don’t know the mental state of the man in question. We don’t know if he considered the ramifications of his act. We don’t know if he willfully rejected the will of God. We need to look at what a mortal sin is. I recommend rather than attempting to learn the correct answer here on a forum, you research the Catechism of the Catholic Church. There is an excellent site: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Look up CHAPTER ONE, THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON; ARTICLE 8, SIN; I. MERCY AND SIN
Sin is not an accident. “Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God”. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It is “an offense against God”. Sin sets itself against God’s love for us and turns our hearts away from it. It is “a revolt against God”. “Sin is thus “love of oneself even to contempt of God.” In this proud self- exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.”
Sin come from the heart, you need to really mean to reject God. “The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man.” But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.” “Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.”
For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”
To sin you need to evaluate the action or inaction, if it is an offense against God and how serious a violation against God it is. “Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent.” You need to have full knowledge that it is an offense. You need to willfully, with full consent, with a deliberate and personal choice, act against the command of God. It is a rejection of the authority of God in your life. It is not an idle act. “The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders.”
“Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace.”
Some of you have implied God would judge the man’s entire life - that sounds reasonable and what I expected. That’s not what Fr. Serpa said. He said he would spend eternity in hell. I can’t say how wrong that seems to me.
No, what Fr Serpa said was that if a person had committed a mortal sin and died without being “able to ask pardon of the Lord in the last seconds of his life”, he would go to hell. I doubt the conditions described constitute a mortal sin but God would decide. Quoting the Catechism yet one more time:
" http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm:
1874 To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.
Let me add a bit of a personal note. My wife and I, both Catholic candidates, were discussing this last night. She got angry, saying maybe this isn’t the religion for her. I didn’t go that far, but the more I think about this, the more angry I get! Help! :mad:
Please read the Catechism. Paragraphs 1849 - 1876
 
Why can’t I make this clear? The guy blew it. We all do. Maybe he died moments before getting his head on straight - without warning - his brain under wheels of a very big bus. For that, and a lifetime of worship, rosaries, prayer, donations, good works, etc., he spends a eternity in hell!
That’s what I don’t think is fair. He’s judged on that afternoon, or maybe 30 minutes of his life. That’s not right.
Your hypothetical situation is not reasonable. A person who loves God would not arbitrarily, totally, reject God would he? To answer your question, regardless of his past life, if a person understands his action is a total rejection of the will of God, if he fully understands it is a grave offense, if he fully understands this offense will completely separate him from the grace of God and accepts his will over Gods, if he fully understands and with complete consent and knowing he will go to hell for committing the offense, well then yes he’s chosen to go to hell. God will not force him into heaven, against his free will.
 
That’s not the issue. The issue is whether a particular act is necessarily a mortal sin. I think some Catholics are far too free in pronouncing grave acts as mortal sins, even though they cannot possibly know if the other two components necessary for mortal sin were present in the act.
My point was to show a human wife would be more than displeased with such behavior. How much more true is that for an infinite God?

Now, lying is wrong. A serious lie is grave matter. Lying about one’s marital state presumably for lustful reasons is no small matter. The OP was hypothetical. It was answered as a hypothetical.

I think we too often dismiss objectvely grave actions or try to paint everything as legalistic when the truth is we all too often do not want to live as we should.
 
Your hypothetical situation is not reasonable. A person who loves God would not arbitrarily, totally, reject God would he? To answer your question, regardless of his past life, if a person understands his action is a total rejection of the will of God, if he fully understands it is a grave offense, if he fully understands this offense will completely separate him from the grace of God and accepts his will over Gods, if he fully understands and with complete consent and knowing he will go to hell for committing the offense, well then yes he’s chosen to go to hell. God will not force him into heaven, against his free will.
What makes the hypothetical situation even more unreasonable (not impossible, just unreasonable) is that this man of God would presumably have a very well-formed and sensitive conscience, which would immediately act up the moment he even formed the idea of telling this lie, would have hounded him the whole time, and would have, if nothing else, quickly brought about repentence. Men of God, by and large, do not just suddenly one day trash their marriage vows, and without remorse as well.

Now it would be believable if this man had a habit of lying about important things such as his marriage. But then the picture is not nearly so black-and-white as “eternity in hell for a moment of sin”.
 
I think that many good intentioned, and perhaps presumptuous self-projecting folks, have a hard time reconciling the infinite mercy and justice of God, which are the dual aspects God’s love.

“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.” Romans 11: 22
 
What makes the hypothetical situation even more unreasonable (not impossible, just unreasonable) …

Now it would be believable if this man had a habit of lying about important things such as his marriage. But then the picture is not nearly so black-and-white as “eternity in hell for a moment of sin”.
Is it not better to error on the side of caution when so much is at stake? Do you not agree that one occasion of unrepentant mortal sin will send one to eternal torment for all eternity?
 
Yes, one occasion of mortal sin is all that is needed. But I would go even a little more ‘specific’ in that I would not use the word ‘send’, but instead ‘choose’. One mortal sin, unrepented at the time of death, is the vehicle through which a person chooses Hell.

I myself make absolutely no judgments on whether a given person is committing a mortal sin (as another poster pointed out, I have no idea what is in the person’s mind/heart). That is why I, along with the Catholic Church, make no pronouncements on what individual is ‘in hell’.

However, that said, and trying to speak impersonally, IF a person commits a grave (mortal) sin with full knowledge of the sin, and full consent of his/her will, and does not repent before death, that person has chosen hell. It wasn’t ‘thrust upon him’, he didn’t go accidentally, it wasn’t unfair, etc. etc.

C.S. Lewis wrote, in The Great Divorce, that the problem is that a person thinks, of a sin, “Give me this one thing (like an illicit love) and it will satisfy me”–yet, if he does freely consent to that grave sin, and dies unrepentent, the consequences of the sin not only go ‘forward’ into eternity but also work backward and make that ‘one thing’ for which he exchanged God for Satan into a horror. The person gets not only the damnation he chose, he also ‘loses’ the thing that he exchanged for God as well which becomes a horror and a loathing for all time.
 
I’m a little hesitant to reply to this – I don’t want to cause trouble. But . . .

If I might modify this a bit, lets assume this was a holy man, a good Catholic, good Christian, good family man, etc., in communion with the church when the day started. He did err, lets say by committing adultery with this woman. In the act lets say he had a massive heart attack and died, without having repented. Certainly this scenario is not impossible. Clearly it is a mortal sin, grave, he was willing, not under duress.

My point was Fr. Serpa appeared to say the man would spend eternity in hell. I thought it was “not right/unfair/unreasonable/awful”, etc., that the man’s life until that point would not be taken into account. (Or perhaps given so little weight as to not matter.)

I can’t answer all your responses, except to say I appreciate them. I do need to say though, they have not mitigated my feelings.
 
Is it not better to error on the side of caution when so much is at stake? Do you not agree that one occasion of unrepentant mortal sin will send one to eternal torment for all eternity?
To your latter question, yes. To your former, too much erring on the side of caution can cause people to despair. There’s nothing good about that. We shouldn’t be erring on either side, but passing along the faith as best we understand the Church to teach it.
 
I’m a little hesitant to reply to this – I don’t want to cause trouble. But . . .

If I might modify this a bit, lets assume this was a holy man, a good Catholic, good Christian, good family man, etc., in communion with the church when the day started. He did err, lets say by committing adultery with this woman. In the act lets say he had a massive heart attack and died, without having repented. Certainly this scenario is not impossible. Clearly it is a mortal sin, grave, he was willing, not under duress.
Let me first ask you a question, and then tell you a story I have heard.

First, is there any sin that the man could be committing when he had his heart attack, that would gain him hell? What if he had just poisoned a bunch of baby food, for example? I think your real issue may be that you don’t regard sexual sins as grave matter. Could that be the case?

Now to the story. I heard this on EWTN, but have never found it anywhere else. I would really like to get corraboration. Anyway, it concerns St. John Vianney, who was sometimes given the gift to know men’s hearts. A woman came to him one day, very concerned about her husband who had recently been killed in a fall from his horse. She was worried that he was in hell because he had lived a bad life. St. John Vianney was granted a vision of his last moments. He told the woman that between saddle and ground the man had asked for forgiveness and it had been granted him.

Would you expect less from the mercy of God?
 
I’m a little hesitant to reply to this – I don’t want to cause trouble. But . . .

If I might modify this a bit, lets assume this was a holy man, a good Catholic, good Christian, good family man, etc., in communion with the church when the day started. He did err, lets say by committing adultery with this woman. In the act lets say he had a massive heart attack and died, without having repented. Certainly this scenario is not impossible. Clearly it is a mortal sin, grave, he was willing, not under duress.

My point was Fr. Serpa appeared to say the man would spend eternity in hell. I thought it was “not right/unfair/unreasonable/awful”, etc., that the man’s life until that point would not be taken into account. (Or perhaps given so little weight as to not matter.)

I can’t answer all your responses, except to say I appreciate them. I do need to say though, they have not mitigated my feelings.
Feelings aside, it is not necessarily how you run the race that matters, but how you finish the race that counts. To fall across the finish line with a massive heart attack and the stain of unrepentent moral sin on your soul …
 
I’m a little hesitant to reply to this – I don’t want to cause trouble. But . . .

If I might modify this a bit, lets assume this was a holy man, a good Catholic, good Christian, good family man, etc., in communion with the church when the day started. He did err, lets say by committing adultery with this woman. In the act lets say he had a massive heart attack and died, without having repented. Certainly this scenario is not impossible. Clearly it is a mortal sin, grave, he was willing, not under duress.

My point was Fr. Serpa appeared to say the man would spend eternity in hell. I thought it was “not right/unfair/unreasonable/awful”, etc., that the man’s life until that point would not be taken into account. (Or perhaps given so little weight as to not matter.)

I can’t answer all your responses, except to say I appreciate them. I do need to say though, they have not mitigated my feelings.
I think you have it right. If one dies without repenting from mortal sin one merits eternal damnation. Whether one led a good life up to that moment does not change his decision to reject God. If he dies without repenting his will is set for eternity.

Why would it be fair for a supremely just God to overlook this man’s free will? He freely chose to reject God. He died while rejecting God. It is his choice.
 
Now to the story. I heard this on EWTN, but have never found it anywhere else. I would really like to get corraboration. Anyway, it concerns St. John Vianney, who was sometimes given the gift to know men’s hearts. A woman came to him one day, very concerned about her husband who had recently been killed in a fall from his horse. She was worried that he was in hell because he had lived a bad life. St. John Vianney was granted a vision of his last moments. He told the woman that between saddle and ground the man had asked for forgiveness and it had been granted him.

Would you expect less from the mercy of God?
I was just going to post that story!:clapping:
 
If I might modify this a bit, lets assume this was a holy man, a good Catholic, good Christian, good family man, etc., in communion with the church when the day started. He did err, lets say by committing adultery with this woman. In the act lets say he had a massive heart attack and died, without having repented. Certainly this scenario is not impossible. Clearly it is a mortal sin, grave, he was willing, not under duress.
Of course he would go to hell. He chose hell over God, why would God force him into heaven when he freely chose hell? This is not a numbers game, let’s see, I’ve done 400 good deeds, so now I can commit 399 sins and still be safe. You attempt to make this adultery seem like an innocent error. “He did err, lets say by committing adultery”, LOL. Whoops I forgot I was already married… Please.
We all know what is right and what is wrong, we know God wants to do what is right. When we choose to disobey God, willfully, knowledgably, we accept the consequence, in this case eternity in hell. Hope it was worth it. God is perfect justice. Would it be justice to allow this adulterer into heaven with the saints? Those who have lived truly devoted lives, who gave their lives for God? Should they share the same fate as this sinner? That’s fair?
 
Let me first ask you a question, and then tell you a story I have heard.

First, is there any sin that the man could be committing when he had his heart attack, that would gain him hell? What if he had just poisoned a bunch of baby food, for example? I think your real issue may be that you don’t regard sexual sins as grave matter. Could that be the case?

Now to the story. I heard this on EWTN, but have never found it anywhere else. I would really like to get corraboration. Anyway, it concerns St. John Vianney, who was sometimes given the gift to know men’s hearts. A woman came to him one day, very concerned about her husband who had recently been killed in a fall from his horse. She was worried that he was in hell because he had lived a bad life. St. John Vianney was granted a vision of his last moments. He told the woman that between saddle and ground the man had asked for forgiveness and it had been granted him.

Would you expect less from the mercy of God?
Yes, I do consider adultery a sin. Change the story, make it that the guy shot her because of an old dispute.

No, I do not expect less from God - that’s my point! It appeard to me that Fr. Serpa said the guy would spend an eternity in hell. I expect MORE from God. That’s the point!
 
Of course he would go to hell. He chose hell over God, why would God force him into heaven when he freely chose hell? This is not a numbers game, let’s see, I’ve done 400 good deeds, so now I can commit 399 sins and still be safe. You attempt to make this adultery seem like an innocent error. “He did err, lets say by committing adultery”, LOL. Whoops I forgot I was already married… Please.
We all know what is right and what is wrong, we know God wants to do what is right. When we choose to disobey God, willfully, knowledgably, we accept the consequence, in this case eternity in hell. Hope it was worth it. God is perfect justice. Would it be justice to allow this adulterer into heaven with the saints? Those who have lived truly devoted lives, who gave their lives for God? Should they share the same fate as this sinner? That’s fair?
How about 10,000 good deeds and one bad? He should spend eternity in hell? I don’t think so. That’s the rub.
 
How about 10,000 good deeds and one bad? He should spend eternity in hell? I don’t think so. That’s the rub.
Again, the rub is understanding mortal sin. Did you read the Catechism I posted? Mortal sin is knowing the offense is a grave matter, understanding ALL of the ramifications, including going to hell, and with full knowlege, full consent, rejecting Gods law and sinning, knowing full well you will be seperated from God. You choose hell rather than God. You think God will force you into heaven? You’ve chosen. It isn’t a little error, it’s a total rejection of His law.
 
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