An Eternity in Hell for a Moment of Sin

[duskyjewel]

This is why Jesus warned that death could come like a thief in the night, with no warning, and to always be ready. I know I sure don’t live up to that warning, thinking I have tomorrow to do things, fix things, go to confession, etc. A mortal sin takes a LOT of effort to commit. You have to KNOW, with well-formed conscience, that it is a mortal sin, you have to intend to do it anyway, which is basically spitting in God’s face, and then you have to take positive action to carry it out. If you might have repented later, but don’t get the chance because you die first, WITHOUT repenting… how is that God’s or the Catholic Church’s fault? It’s no one’s fault but the sinner, and that is the chance he took by CHOOSING to commit a mortal sin.

If this makes Catholicism not the religion for you, then you don’t really believe in or respect free will.

First, I appreciate your replies. Please note that I’m really trying to understand, not just debate.

In Fr. Serpa’s story (in the link’ed post) the man, presumably a just, holy Catholic, commits a mortal sin, maybe his first in decades. Lets assume that if he had time to think about what he did he would repentant and ask for forgiveness. Unfortunately, he dies moments later.

Some of you have implied God would judge the man’s entire life - that sounds reasonable and what I expected. That’s not what Fr. Serpa said. He said he would spend eternity in hell. I can’t say how wrong that seems to me.

Protestations that God is just and will do the right thing work for me. Is Fr. Serpa misinformed?

Let me add a bit of a personal note. My wife and I, both Catholic candidates, were discussing this last night. She got angry, saying maybe this isn’t the religion for her. I didn’t go that far, but the more I think about this, the more angry I get! Help!

 

[Ramalama]

Again, the rub is understanding mortal sin. Did you read the Catechism I posted? Mortal sin is knowing the offense is a grave matter, understanding ALL of the ramifications, including going to hell, and with full knowlege, full consent, rejecting Gods law and sinning, knowing full well you will be seperated from God. You choose hell rather than God. You think God will force you into heaven? You’ve chosen. It isn’t a little error, it’s a total rejection of His law.

Thanks, Tom, I understand what you’re saying. Given that, if it was truly believed, no one would ever commit a mortal sin. You would have to be out of your mind - and if you were, it wouldn’t be a mortal sin. Yet we know it happens all the time - because we’re human, and destined to sin. That’s what doesn’t seem right to me.

The church is saying that, no matter how good I’ve been, not matter how much good I’ve done, it may have all been for naught if I get unlucky.

I understand it, and you might be right. I don’t like it. (But what does that matter - huh?)

 

[fix]

The church is saying that, no matter how good I’ve been, not matter how much good I’ve done, it may have all been for naught if I get unlucky.

It is not a matter of luck. It is a matter of free will. Catholics are fortunate in that they have the benefit of the Church. They have all the sacraments including confesion. They have many ways to receive grace to strengthen them.

 

[Ramalama]

This is why Jesus warned that death could come like a thief in the night, with no warning, and to always be ready. I know I sure don’t live up to that warning, thinking I have tomorrow to do things, fix things, go to confession, etc. A mortal sin takes a LOT of effort to commit. You have to KNOW, with well-formed conscience, that it is a mortal sin, you have to intend to do it anyway, which is basically spitting in God’s face, and then you have to take positive action to carry it out. If you might have repented later, but don’t get the chance because you die first, WITHOUT repenting… how is that God’s or the Catholic Church’s fault? It’s no one’s fault but the sinner, and that is the chance he took by CHOOSING to commit a mortal sin.

If this makes Catholicism not the religion for you, then you don’t really believe in or respect free will.

Dusky, I appreciate your comments also. I wasn’t saying it was God’s “fault”, at least I didn’t mean to imply fault. My only point is this doesn’t sound like a merciful, just God. Maybe a lifetime of good works, one mortal sin, by a human that was designed to fail. If it does sound merciful and just to you, as the song says, then we just disagree.

 

[Ramalama]

It is not a matter of luck. It is a matter of free will.

I was saying luck in the time of the heart attack or bus crash.

 

[Tom]

Ram, you’d like to think God is so merciful He will surly bring all of His children into heaven with Him? Do you consider there are people who don’t want God? Who know full well that He exists yet reject Him. Would it be merciful to force them into an eternity with one they hate? Or to allow them to share in heaven with the saints? This sounds fair and just? Where exactly is the divide then? It is the acceptance or rejection of God. Accept God, follow His law, reject God, sin.
Why did our Lord Jesus the Christ die on the cross if God was going to take all His children into heaven anyway? God teaches us in Scripture there is sin, it separates us from Him.

 

[fix]

I was saying luck in the time of the heart attack or bus crash.

That is not a matter of luck either. Everything happens for a reason.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I have a similar issue, as many likely do as Ramalama.

Something does not feel quite correct in the judgement as stated. That feeling of incorrectness is not just an unwillingness to accept a judgement I do not agree with, but in the finality and eternity of it.

Something I continue to ponder.

 

[chrisb]

Grace and Peace,

It should make men pause not rebel.

Peace and God Bless.

 

[Ramalama]

That is not a matter of luck either. Everything happens for a reason.

Fix, are you saying the heart attack was somehow “destined” to occur during the sin, that this was “fated”. This guy was shafted before he woke up on the last day of his life!

 

[Tom]

Fix, are you saying the heart attack was somehow “destined” to occur during the sin, that this was “fated”. This guy was shafted before he woke up on the last day of his life!

LOL cute choice of words.

 

[Ramalama]

Ram, you’d like to think God is so merciful He will surly bring all of His children into heaven with Him? Do you consider there are people who don’t want God? Who know full well that He exists yet reject Him. Would it be merciful to force them into an eternity with one they hate? Or to allow them to share in heaven with the saints? This sounds fair and just? Where exactly is the divide then? It is the acceptance or rejection of God. Accept God, follow His law, reject God, sin.
Why did our Lord Jesus the Christ die on the cross if God was going to take all His children into heaven anyway? God teaches us in Scripture there is sin, it separates us from Him.

Do you think this man, as we’ve defined him doesn’t want God? Do you think he hates God? No, he’s human, he was overcome by temptation, as was every man that ever lived, except one.

As a sponsor used to say (I’m a recovering alcoholic), “There is a God and you ain’t it!” He was right, I’m not, but if I was I would take the man into heaven and not condemn him for one sin.

 

[fix]

Fix, are you saying the heart attack was somehow “destined” to occur during the sin, that this was “fated”. This guy was shafted before he woke up on the last day of his life!

Do you believe in luck? God has an ordaining will and a permitting will. Nothing is a matter of fate or luck.

 

[Ramalama]

LOL cute choice of words.

Oops.

 

[Ramalama]

Do you believe in luck? God has an ordaining will and a permitting will. Nothing is a matter of fate or luck.

Good point, Fix. I understand.

Can you clarify this? Are you saying He permitted the man to sin and ordained the heart attack? (I’m not playing rhetorical chess here, just trying to understand your response.)

 

[Ramalama]

I have a similar issue, as many likely do as Ramalama.

Something does not feel quite correct in the judgement as stated. That feeling of incorrectness is not just an unwillingness to accept a judgement I do not agree with, but in the finality and eternity of it.

Something I continue to ponder.

Yes - the absolute condemnation, forever, with absolutely no chance of redemption regardless of what he does.

 

[Tom]

The rub is, sin should not be taken lightly. It is serious. It has serious implications. It has eternal implications. It isn’t something a serious, God fearing person does lightly.
There are Christians out there who teach essentially there is no sin since the resurrection. Jesus died for our sins, so sin has no hold on us, if we sin it is immediately forgiven by His death and resurrection. The problem with this is Jesus didn’t die on the cross to give us a free ride to sin as much as we like with no ramifications. Sin is serious, serious enough for Him to die a horrible death, for me and you. Do you think He did this so we can act any way we want? I know you don’t. There is sin, it is serious.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

In this thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=141754

Fr. Serpa says a man killed after a mortal sin, before confession, will spend eternity in hell. I’m having great difficulty reconciling this with a loving, forgiving God.

According to this, if the Pope was shot and with his dying breath used the Lord’s name in vain, he would spend eternity in hell.

Can anybody help me with this?

It only takes a moment or two to put a bullet in someone’s head. Does that mean that a life sentence is unfair?

 

[Tom]

You would have to be out of your mind - and if you were, it wouldn’t be a mortal sin.

No, not out of our minds, just weak. I know I shouldn’t do… (whatever the sin is)… but I know God will forgive me…. Or I pretend to convince myself that it really isn’t “that” bad… or everyone else does it… or God couldn’t really consider it a sin, He made it feel so good… or add your own little justification.

 

[Ramalama]

The rub is, sin should not be taken lightly. It is serious. It has serious implications. It has eternal implications. It isn’t something a serious, God fearing person does lightly.
There are Christians out there who teach essentially there is no sin since the resurrection. Jesus died for our sins, so sin has no hold on us, if we sin it is immediately forgiven by His death and resurrection. The problem with this is Jesus didn’t die on the cross to give us a free ride to sin as much as we like with no ramifications. Sin is serious, serious enough for Him to die a horrible death, for me and you. Do you think He did this so we can act any way we want? I know you don’t. There is sin, it is serious.

Yes, we agree on this. When we’re talking about eternal damnation, “serious” is not a serious enough word!

Thank you for the discussion, I appreciate your time, knowledge and patience, but I still have to say I cannot square this with an infinitely just, merciful God.