Angry about NFP

[losh14]

. I’m 15 years old, and I realize that sex cannot be solely for enjoyment.

Oh, kiddo, I’m going to thank God for you every single day and hope that you’re contagious! It breaks my heart when I see how some of the kids your age are, and it doesn’t help that most of them weren’t any better when I was 16. I wish I could tell them how much it sucks to have a one-night stand, or how much it hurts to get an STD test (think Q-tip, but much bigger and metallic with way too little cotton at the tip), or how agonizing it is to have a friend ask if you’ll drive her to get an abortion.

It seems a sort of moot point to simply do it for the sake of doing it. Oftentimes I don’t see the point of anyone having sex at all, because a lot of the time it’s used to hurt themselves and others.

Another quote I can’t think of the attribution:
Sex is. Sex builds no bridges, ends no wars, makes no discoveries. Sex doesn’t feed a single hungry person or end the misery of a broken heart. Sex does very little, and yet costs so very much. Sex just is.

When you’re using contraception, it generally means that you aren’t doing what you’re doing out of love, or for the glory of God. As I see it, if you don’t do it for that, what’s the point?

Contraception can be used in loving sex but always has an element of fear. It’s an imperfect answer to an imperfect situation. That may not be the majority use - no one collects statistics on this sort of thing. Certainly a condom for a one-night stand isn’t loving - fearful certainly. In that situation it’s like Seinfeld’s helmet - ie, the helmet is something devised to protect the brain that isn’t smart enough to stop doing what could hurt it in the first place.

And you don’t know fear until you hear a condom break. This subtle popping sound … followed by terror, a quick scramble off the floor and a really uncomfortable conversation in the bathroom while he washes and she sits and a lot of “are you sure” and “when were you tested” and finally “if we had a baby, could you love it?”. And if he pauses too long there’s no need for him to answer… why on earth would you get yourself in this situation in the first place? For 15, you know more than many of the people I know who are twice your age. Enjoy school, study hard, spend time with your friends. Sex can wait, it’s not like we’re running out of it any time soon.

 

[losh14]

I just became a new mother myself. I gave up my career as an EMT in order to stay home with my baby. Granted I’m also in school too but it’s becoming harder and harder to finish my degree in the allotted time I -had planned out.

You’ve much going on - congratulations on your little baby girl! I hope you and your fiancee have a wonderful marriage ahead of you despite starting off a little earlier than you may have intended (still being in school and all).

As encouragement, I quit my job three months after I married my wife and went back full time for graduate school. The first semester was an adjustment. The second semester I had all night classes - we saw each other only a few hours a week and much of that was eating or showering.

To the point where I haven’t bought a single thing for myself in months because I feel so guilty spending my Fiance’s money.

Frugality is good but save a little something for yourself if you can - it doesn’t have to be much. My wife is soon to be a stay-at-home Mom (quitting her job in three weeks) and we’ve budgeted a monthly allowance for her (and one for me, smaller than hers),.

Lack of sleep, lack of personal comforts, lack of social contacts and being able to hang out and go out anymore.

I have to admire single parents - it’s so much work and so hard, especially early on. It does get better - there’s this wonderful night when you realize you’ve actually been asleep a solid six hours and the baby is still snoozing happily.

You should try to schedule time out for yourself and let him do the same - one night each week for each of you, even if just for an hour. It does help, you need to have adult conversation from time to time.

Also, we’ve found that it is much easier (and cheaper) to have breakfast or brunch dates than dinner dates. Also easier to get a sitter for that short hour or 90 minutes, especially if it’s during nap time. You do need that reconnection,

While I trust NFP to work well to space our children. I have a feeling we will be abstinent for quite some time until my cycles come back and I can really start practicing NFP correctly without any scares.

Between sleep deprivation, hormonal changes for you and him (guys can have something like baby blues too), stress of a wedding and trying to figure out your futures, neither of you may be in the mood. My wife’s periods didn’t return until our oldest was 14 months, and she was still rather wary of me touching her.

If you do nurse regularly, that’s supposed to be a natural birth spacing, although it doesn’t work for everyone (two of our friends had to wean early because they were pregnant and couldn’t sustain the caloric need).

I don’t want to be abstinent. I miss the intimacy with my Fiance. We gave up sex quite some time ago and I’m anxious to get it back but in order to make this work…it looks like we will have too.

Trust in God, indeed, but remember that intimacy isn’t just sexual. Go back to whatever makes you a couple - your friendship, shared experiences, the situations that get you to have good long conversations. Physical intimacy can be non-sexual too - baths together, back massages (pre-baby they may have led somewhere, but post-baby they usually mean sleep), cuddling. So long as you both work at it, you’ll make it work.

 

[sky_heart]

I thank you as well. But, ah, the turmoil: we follow church teachings on sex (we have four kids vis NFP; it works), and my wife and I disagree about following church teachings, and it has impacted our marriage. While I totally agree with you, and my wife and I had non-intercourse sex in between NFP phases (hated condoms and the pill) for many years, that changed. Read about the “radical extreme” in the article I posted, and that is where we are. Sad, hurts, but a reality, made worse by us viewing it differently. But such an extreme will be denied by the majority of posters here, that there is no way NFP and church teachings can cause this. Well, the article was written by a priest.

And so my advice to jonnlaureng is the same as yours - do what you need to preserve your marriage and pray and go to confession and make peace with your conscience and with God, but speaking from painful experience, the radical extreme is not the way to go. All because semen is supposed to land in one spot.

I do not for the life of me believe that God intends for couples to live with this kind of pain and separation, but we are told we are supposed to. Should we strive for intercourse as the ideal, as agape love is the ideal (again, read the article)? Yes. Should marriages suffer and couples not have sex or be sexually intimate at all for not being able to afford more kids or because the man orgasms other than thru intercourse? Not at all, nor do I believe that is what God wants. But it is what we are told.

God bless you and your wonderful family!
That is truly great that NFP has complimented your and your wife’s situation! Its so funny because me and my husband agree about nearly all church teachings, yet nearly the point of contention for us, as a couple has always been conception. We want so badly to do the right thing, but its highly complicated given our individual situation. I totally agree with you too, non-intercourse sex is a wonderful way to find intimacy with your partner and to strengthen the bond. The article that you posted is truly beautiful, insightful and, most of all, poignant as the priest himself mentions that should climax occur that it is not a sin. The priest who penned the article brutally and honestly instructs that spouses should be honest with each other- in fact, here is one of my favorite passages:
**
“…It means that common difficulties of catholic couples are not of such gravity as to require going to confession each time they appear. If the spouses try to preserve the established boundaries, but do not always succeed in it, it is better for them to take Communion regularly, praying for the gift of an even purer love, rather than, being tormented with ever-increasing guilt and another failure, constantly think about the necessity of confessing their sexual sins”**

In one word this passage is PERFECT! The priest acknowledges the challenges and difficulties yet he doesn’t damn the couple. He doesn’t scare them with the realities of their mortality… he takes into mind that the couple should take communion, should pray to God and to not torment. I couldn’t agree more. Tormenting leads to the eventual shunning of your spouse, or worse, yourself. It makes you feel imperfect to the point where one can never feel truly clean as the vice of sin cannot be escaped. I don’t simply think its as easy as condemning someone literally to hell.

I should mention, in fact, beyond this thread, I hope we can be friends on here and stay in contact Its always great to have a friend- particularly one with lots of insight and this article has truly inspired me to fact-find even more on the subject. I am truly appalled by those on here that are so black and white and by the book about everything. Love, when purely experienced, is hardly by the book. In fact, to some extent, some posters on this thread have boiled down human intimacy and the marriage covenant down to horrible number figures with percentages… love is rarely so simple that we can all ascribe to one definition and one instruction perfectly without error or without free-thinking as instruction doesn’t take into account the totality of challenges faced by a truly in-love married couple.

I totally and utterly agree with what you’ve said here: “I do not for the life of me believe that God intends for couples to live with this kind of pain and separation, but we are told we are supposed to. Should we strive for intercourse as the ideal, as agape love is the ideal (again, read the article)? Yes. Should marriages suffer and couples not have sex or be sexually intimate at all for not being able to afford more kids or because the man orgasms other than thru intercourse? Not at all, nor do I believe that is what God wants. But it is what we are told.” I don’t believe God wants us to further separate our relationships, the intensity of love we feel for our spouses---- to experience the pain and separation you’ve mentioned…I completely agree that we should always strive, at all points, to do what follows the church’s teaching-- God’s teaching foremost. But I also think we should understand we are human. We cannot be stratified and summed up in numbers or words… Thank you again from the bottom of my heart for you post… you have given me lots to think about and hopefully some on here can read the article you’ve posted and educate themselves against judging others for truly embracing their humanity and for following their hearts.

 

[sky_heart]

In response to all of The Bucket’s posts:

I’m not entirely positive if anything you’ve written here was expressly addressed to me, but, i’d like to respond. I can understand your agitation but this poster that has asked for the help of those of us on this board is genuinely in need. How some are acting on here (including your original posts) are obviously NOT intended to be good-spirited, helpful, or instructive to someone in need. If you aren’t to say anything beneficial then why waste your breath? To cause a fight? To make someone feel ignorant? I cannot stand those who try to hurt those genuinely needing help. That is against the church and only serves to push Catholics away or intimidate them into either NOT asking question or INTO being ashamed of themselves and that is wholly intolerable, in my opinion. Your comments are snarky and misdirected as one poster cannot be made responsible for the hundreds of posts i’m sure you’ve encountered in your time as a member of this board.

The church obviously has a “crystal clear” stance on the contraception. This is undeniable. But, if we are to talk about God, extenuating circumstances, and such, the church does not go into such detail as it cannot predict every possibility of situation we, as Catholics, face.

I definitely see a good majority of your points, and I appreciate your point of view. I must say, as a new Catholic, I fully embrace the church into my life as much as possible. But I also get the point that we cannot be perfect as humans and that it is against God to pretend to be as such. We should aspire to be as close to him as possible but I genuinely have always believed (even before becoming Catholic- I was raised in a Catholic household) that as long as you try to live your life as close to God as possible and do the best you can, even in the face of adversity, that God will genuinely love you and welcome you into his kingdom as he knows, with all your heart, your intent was pure. This might be flawed thinking for some but this is how i’ve always felt. I don’t think it is hard at all to be a good person as long as you always acting purely of heart, God will know where you stand. I simply do not and will never believe that a person who uses condoms, particularly because they have financial problems, will get condemned for an eternity in the same pit as murderers, criminals, and the like. Sure using condoms counts against us as it is against the church, but, if God loves all, and you have a justification, and you pray about it and confess it, surely he will know your truest intent.

I completely see what you mean, but I know in my heart, I have peace. As long as I can be the very best mother, wife, daughter, friend that I can be, as long as I keep the love of God in every action I take in my life, as long as I do the best I can in life and aspire to be better at every turn, I am at peace in my soul and that, to me, is priceless. I will always try to do better but peace is quite easy to find and keep when you do the best you can.

 

[sky_heart]

There are strong reasons for not using contraceptives. Half of them are really abortions, because they irritate the walls of the uterus, making fertilized eggs incapable of implanting there, and the other half almost invariably lead to sins against chastity. I’m 15 years old, and I realize that sex cannot be solely for enjoyment. It seems a sort of moot point to simply do it for the sake of doing it. Oftentimes I don’t see the point of anyone having sex at all, because a lot of the time it’s used to hurt themselves and others. When you’re using contraception, it generally means that you aren’t doing what you’re doing out of love, or for the glory of God. As I see it, if you don’t do it for that, what’s the point?

As for the OP, I will pray for you. I’m sorry, but age and inexperience prevent me from giving any authoritative or useful advice.

I appreciate your point of view and honest about inexperience JNdoum!
But I do believe it’s a bit odd… only because when you are married and in a committed relationship, a condom cannot be a “sin against chastity” as you’ve called it. I appreciate how deeply rooted you are in your own beliefs, but, sex isn’t purely for enjoyment, you are right. I believe your youth might explain your lack of fathoming that when you love someone, and you are honestly committed, there are plenty of ways to be intimate, sex happens to be one of them and, to protect the marriage, as well as the family at large, partners should be able to explore their sexuality openly and freely. We are not animals (per se) and sexuality is rarely as simple as having sex only when you want to procreate although i’m sure with age, experience and knowing the physical intensity of love two individuals can share (when you get to this point in your life) you will find not exploring certain levels of intimacy are simply much easier said than done. I do also believe you saying use of contraception equates to “not doing it out of love or the Glory of God” again, smacks of inexperience and lack of life knowledge. There are a number of reasons a couple would use contraception- health, emotional, mental and physical reasons- none of which have a bit to do with anything you’ve honestly mentioned. To be honest, the question comes to mind of which is far MORE irresponsible-- to bring a miracle to life-- one you cannot realistically provide for, mentally, emotionally or financially or to use contraception… I believe God would take more fault with the former as opposed to the latter, but again, life experience will show this to you in just time.

 

[sky_heart]

Sometimes I can’t stand these forums. Their have been some wonderful posts here but some of the posts hit below the belt. The OP is upset and is seeking help. She said she was angry and didn’t want to be. Getting anrgy back at her shows a lack of empathy. Berating the OP and pointing out things like you shouldn’t of had sex out of marriage is unhelpful and smug. If you can’t respond with charity to someone who is upset and asking for help than why are you responding? What is your intention?

I 3000% percent agree with you, LucyLight!
I believe some on here either are in marriages or life situations they are fully not personally satisfied with as to why they would come on here and make the original poster not only feel ashamed, but horrible about the strength and courage it takes to ask a question. This, I thought, was a forum where we are to help fellow Catholics, to give them insight, NOT to damn them to hell (As if this is our right or responsibility as no one can do this but God himself-- and the “holier than thou” card is a pretty ridiculous one to play, especially considering how pride is a sin in itself). This woman is asking for our help- our guidance… not snarky attitudes, not non-instructive diatribes saying you are breaking God’s law or that “it’s your own fault” but genuine help. I thought that we are supposed to be Catholic- the lot of us-- where are our virtues? I agree— if you cannot respond with charity to someone who genuinely needs the help, why respond? what are the true intentions to write things that are rude, cold and just downright mean-spirited? And yet most of these people follow church teaching but cannot give charity, understanding or compassion?! Seriously??

 

[twoangels]

I’m a Catholic woman. I am glad that I’m able to know my body well. I’m glad that I’m not taking hormones to artificially suppress the natural functions of my body. I’m glad that we’re not putting a barrier between us, but are totally physically connected.

With NFP, I didn’t like the transition between breastfeeding and the return of fertility. That was confusing. I don’t like how our work schedules and other things also limit our time together. I do though feel confident with the method of NFP, though.

I love our daughter even though she wasn’t planned in the traditional sense. I’m glad we didn’t wait till we were ready, because we’d still be waiting. She was unplanned but not unexpected.

I love that NFP has taught me and is still teaching me to trust my husband’s love for me more. I love that it has challenged me to see pregnancy as something we both go through. I love that we’ve talked about both of our experiences with my first pregnancy. I love that the more I talk with my husband, the more practicing NFP is a joint adventure. Its not my will versus his will. My self preservation versus him. I love that we are able to talk about responsible parenthood, and the damage done in knowing I would have to refuse pregnancy either by denying my husband sexually or using contraceptives would hurt me regardless.

He doesn’t always get it, but I’m glad we can talk. Sometimes he talks about the stresses of having a baby as beginning when the baby is born, and I have to remind him that for me, that first trimester was very hard. I have to remind him that when I’m pregnant, I have less energy and right now I have so many responsibilities that I’m struggling with. But he does listen and our wills do become united. I feel less and less threatened by him because “he’s not a man and can’t understand what a woman goes through.” He is called to love me as he loves himself and I’m glad he listens and shows his love. It brings us closer than if I felt I had to protect myself from him through contraceptives or through denying him his conjugal rights which are his right to be loved by me sexually. I have those same rights.

 

[MLP67]

I think you are throwing blame in the wrong place. Sorry to be blunt, but you aren’t in this position because of NFP or because of the Church or because of God. You are in this position because you had sex in college. Your “dream college” wasn’t important enough to you to focus on your studies instead of fooling around. But now you regret having to leave and want to turn back the clock.

It seems you regret your past. That’s admirable. I hope you have also reconciled with the Church - doubly admirable. But bad choices come with consequences and sometimes those consequences have to be dealt with for a long, long time.

Instead of blaming everyone else, you need to put on your big girl pants, take responsibility for your actions and adjust your plans based on the new reality **that you created for yourself **instead of living in the land of “what could have been.”

I know this sounds harsh and I am sorry. I know many people who have made mistakes and have to live with the consequences, myself included. Some do better with the situations they have created than others.

Here here!! My words exactly.

 

[etmom]

**
“…It means that common difficulties of catholic couples are not of such gravity as to require going to confession each time they appear. If the spouses try to preserve the established boundaries, but do not always succeed in it, it is better for them to take Communion regularly, praying for the gift of an even purer love, rather than, being tormented with ever-increasing guilt and another failure, constantly think about the necessity of confessing their sexual sins”**

In one word this passage is PERFECT! The priest acknowledges the challenges and difficulties yet he doesn’t damn the couple. He doesn’t scare them with the realities of their mortality… he takes into mind that the couple should take communion, should pray to God and to not torment. I couldn’t agree more. Tormenting leads to the eventual shunning of your spouse, or worse, yourself. It makes you feel imperfect to the point where one can never feel truly clean as the vice of sin cannot be escaped. I don’t simply think its as easy as condemning someone literally to hell.

:

I disagree with your conclusion here, that acknowledging that something is sinful leads to the shunning of your spouse or yourself and that confession is unnecessary in situations as described. I have never felt anything but compassion, God’s mercy and grace when confessing that I’ve fallen short of the ideal of being chaste in my marriage. Confession, for my husband and I, builds us up, strengthens us, and gives us the grace to persevere and have a closer, stronger relationship in every aspect. And it’s not because it has been “easy” for us. We went through the a heartbreaking tragedy of the loss of our newborn son, and what seemed to us as a impossible situation with following NFP for life threatening reasons that followed. We thought it was literally impossible. Much to our suprise, totally unexpected by us, when we started started down a dark, dark road filled with doubt, fear and resentment, we have found grace upon grace. Honestly, I don’t think we’d be where we are with it without having confession as an integral part of our journey (and as a former protestant, this has NEVER been a sacrament I’ve been completely comfortable with).

 

[sky_heart]

I disagree with your conclusion here, that acknowledging that something is sinful leads to the shunning of your spouse or yourself and that confession is unnecessary in situations as described. I have never felt anything but compassion, God’s mercy and grace when confessing that I’ve fallen short of the ideal of being chaste in my marriage. Confession, for my husband and I, builds us up, strengthens us, and gives us the grace to persevere and have a closer, stronger relationship in every aspect. And it’s not because it has been “easy” for us. We went through the a heartbreaking tragedy of the loss of our newborn son, and what seemed to us as a impossible situation with following NFP for life threatening reasons that followed. We thought it was literally impossible. Much to our suprise, totally unexpected by us, when we started started down a dark, dark road filled with doubt, fear and resentment, we have found grace upon grace. Honestly, I don’t think we’d be where we are with it without having confession as an integral part of our journey (and as a former protestant, this has NEVER been a sacrament I’ve been completely comfortable with).

Hi.
That first portion in which youve quoted are not my words. Please read my post again
as I directly quoted it from an article link another member quoted in reference to those who practice nfp, have sexually intimate touching (with no intercourse) & find themselves unintentionally engagin in intercourse and the rammifications of such an act. I definitely appreciate your story, genuinely & heartfeltly and strongly believe in the power of confession and its ability to strength us individually as well as the relationships we have with our respective spouses. Hands-down no disagreement there

 

[etmom]

Hi.
That first portion in which youve quoted are not my words. Please read my post again
as I directly quoted it from an article link another member quoted in reference to those who practice nfp, have sexually intimate touching (with no intercourse) & find themselves unintentionally engagin in intercourse and the rammifications of such an act. I definitely appreciate your story, genuinely & heartfeltly and strongly believe in the power of confession and its ability to strength us individually as well as the relationships we have with our respective spouses. Hands-down no disagreement there

I realize that they were not your words, but what your response was referring to, so I included it in the quote so that it made sense. Your response seemed to be in agreement with the article that confession was unnecessary for sexual sins as described. I was pointing out the immense value it can have in those situations.

 

[Maxxadict]

I get the frustration(read some of my other post)…part of it…I sounds like you’re mad about having kids in the first place. “I had to leave my dream college”. So many people get the important things in life mixed up… God then Family then everything else…If God gave you a child at 19 and you had to leave college embrace that don’t resent it. Every curve ball that life has tossed me has always turned out for the better.

As far as NFP frustrations go buy a lady comp. The Lady Comp is expensive but it works and eliminates the need for remembering the thousands of rules and trying to decipher crazy charts.

Hope this helps

God bless,
Chris

 

[The_Bucket]

I’m snarky but not uncharitable. I never once made a reference to the OP’s sexual sin before marriage that led to her first child, even though I’m pretty sure that such activity likely clouded her perception of what sex is all about. I didn’t bring it up because once confessed it’s over. Done. Forgiven and the end in terms of punishment so why even come close to “punishing” her again by bringing it up?

Nevertheless, the effects of that sin linger on the mind even though they are washed clean from the soul. As with nearly all other Catholics, I’ve confessed the same sin over and over again and while it’s forgiven immediately, the propensity to commit that sin remains. That said, I’m not going to advocate for others to continue in their sin or even give them little ways to maybe, just maybe get around the “rules.” That’s lunacy.

I have plenty of sympathy for the OP in terms of struggling with NFP. As a young man who really never got a “honeymoon” period with his wife before we conceived a child, I can tell you that there have been plenty of frustrations over our nearly five years together as a married couple.

But the frustration is because I am imperfect, we are all imperfect creatures, not because God is wrong or His Church is wrong. Do I have to tell myself this a lot? Yeah, I do. Do I fully embrace it? No, not all the time but that again is because of my faults, my shortcomings, my failures, not because the Church is wrong. But just because I have these imperfections doesn’t mean I’m going to say “well yeah, I mean, do what you think and feel is right” to other people struggling because that’s a totally uncharitable thing to do. It may not seem like it at first but there is nothing less charitable than giving the green light to fellow Catholics to violate their Church’s law and God’s teaching, especially on something so important like this.

Acknowledging our shortcomings and our failures is not a license to sin. It is a license to freely reject the sin of pride, get in the confessional and get back to grace.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Sometimes I can’t stand these forums. Their have been some wonderful posts here but some of the posts hit below the belt. The OP is upset and is seeking help. She said she was angry and didn’t want to be. Getting anrgy back at her shows a lack of empathy. Berating the OP and pointing out things like you shouldn’t of had sex out of marriage is unhelpful and smug. If you can’t respond with charity to someone who is upset and asking for help than why are you responding? What is your intention?

I would do the same if this were my daughter or my DIL, or my niece or any other female relative or friend. I would stand in front of her, take her by the shoulders and give her a sharp shake. I would tell her to hush up. I would tell her she has her priorities mixed up, to turn around and LOOK at her blessings, that many people who cannot have children would LOVE to have, and I would tell her to stop feeling sorry for herself and angry at God, because she herself made decisions that brought her to that place. Sometimes a stern talking to IS the most charitable thing to do. She is feeling all put-upon that she has to bear the “consequences” of GOD’S HIGHEST BLESSING OF CHILDREN! Nothing suggests that she cannot return to college when her children are older. She is very young. But very angry because life has turned out differently than her plans. Instead of looking at her blessings, 2 children and a husband, she is angry that God has blessed her life.

Yes, I would be stern with this girl if I knew her. I hope someone else in her life is telling her the same things.

 

[SamH]

I think you are throwing blame in the wrong place. Sorry to be blunt, but you aren’t in this position because of NFP or because of the Church or because of God. You are in this position because you had sex in college. Your “dream college” wasn’t important enough to you to focus on your studies instead of fooling around. But now you regret having to leave and want to turn back the clock.

It seems you regret your past. That’s admirable. I hope you have also reconciled with the Church - doubly admirable. But bad choices come with consequences and sometimes those consequences have to be dealt with for a long, long time.

Instead of blaming everyone else, you need to put on your big girl pants, take responsibility for your actions and adjust your plans based on the new reality **that you created for yourself **instead of living in the land of “what could have been.”

I know this sounds harsh and I am sorry. I know many people who have made mistakes and have to live with the consequences, myself included. Some do better with the situations they have created than others.

You said it in a much kinder way than I was going to.

 

[The_Bucket]

Heck she can return to college right now if she wants to. Take online courses when the kids go to bed. They’re young; plenty of accredited schools have night classes online these days. Or go even faster with virtual classes during naptime AND bedtime. It’s not the same college experience, yeah I get that, but she has two kids now so she’s never going to get the typical college experience. Nothing is going to change that.

Having kids doesn’t mean the end of a career or education or any of that. The Church is not telling every woman to be a SAHM forever and ever, but She does advise that you sit down and think about your priorities, pray about it and then do what you think God is calling you to do. But He’s definitely not calling you to abandon His teachings when it comes to sexual morality.

 

[searching04]

I’ll freely admit that I’m not addressing this in the most charitable way but I get pretty agitated when I see people publicly advocate for others to commit mortal sin. How about if I argued in favor of abortion or stealing or an affair because hey, we’re all in tough situations. It’s the same situation here.

Some of us get pretty agitated when you set yourself up on a pedastal as the flamethrower of truth and use your snarkiness as an excuse to use words as you do. You are not living what others are livng, so you cannot relate to it. Fair enough. Being snarky, as you admit you are, is no excuse for not being more charitable, which is what I will address later as I am reading each and every one of these posts again.

I also get tired of hearing the “NFP is more effective than ABC” line from advocates of NFP. Because it’s a lie or at the very least it’s misleading and gives folks who favor ABC and think the Church needs to change it’s doctrine on that (never gonna happen, the Church never changes its doctrine) plenty of ammo. The truth is that NFP and most forms of ABC have comparable effectiveness with perfect use. The difference is that imperfect use leads to 25% “failure” rate with NFP and something like 8% for the pill and maybe 12% for condoms. That’s a big difference.

That said, there really isn’t any gray area here in terms of is and is not licit when it comes to family planning.

Maybe not, but you are not living in the same situations and so you are not the one who deals with the pain and contradiction, and so is then terribly torn.

By the way, my comments certainly are not as snarky, at least when it comes to Church doctrine about a very serious issue as this line: “All because semen isn’t supposed to land somewhere?” That’s lovely.

Tell me what isn’t true about what you quoted?

 

[searching04]

I’m glad you said it first. I wanted to but usually don’t on these forums because I’ll get accused of not being charitable.

I am an Army wife and my husband is leaving for his fourth deployment later this year. We are pregnant with our 7th. I’m not saying it’s not d!@# hard or that I haven’t had a breakdown or two over the years, but this is life and this is life being Catholic and I wouldn’t give it up for anything. (That and my fear of hell) It wouldn’t seem so insurmountable if everyone around you weren’t using contraception. If society in general were having larger families you would have more support.

Hey, there, armywife -

Thanks for your service!

Think the difference here is that you are choosing to have 7 kids while your husband is still deploying. Right, wrong, by choice to have sex or not, the OP does not want - more so, cannot handle - more children at this time.

The problem, and it is very real, is that the church says if you withhold sex, you sin; if you don’t use NFP, you sin; supposedly, if you use NFP with a “contraceptive mindset”, you sin; if you use any type of ABC (condoms,pills, other sex), you sin. So the only options left are not to be physically, sexually intimate with your spouse or go ahead and have kids you cannot take care of. Which is the greater sin? What impact do you think either of those have on a marriage? And being told by most posters here to suck it up, or that it is not real, or that there is no way whatsoever it is the “fault” of church teachings on sex and NFP , or the myriad other things posted, does no good and does not help the OP.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

One thing I left out, that I would also recommend for the OP -

Go to your doctor and discuss your frame of mind. You might have post partum depression. In that case, medication can help (usually) and some form of therapy can also help you get back to a positive attitude.

Not that a pill is the answer to any of our normal human emotions or sins, but she’s had 2 children pretty much back to back and that is a strain on anyone’s system.

So, after I gave my daughter a stern talking to, I would take her to her doctor.

 

[searching04]

So you had sex outside of marriage but you’re mad at the Church and God? That act is designed to create offspring, or did you miss a few critical lessons growing up?

I am very disgusted with the tone of your post. You make it sound as if having 2 beautiful blessings has been a curse. “I do not want to stay home and care for 6 children.” Well I could say something very uncharitable such as that I hope you do not have those 6 children if you are not going to love and appreciate each one. I feel sorry for you if that is how you view being a mother.

How do you get from making love to your husband and having 2 children to being “barefoot and pregnant” your entire life? That is so insulting to mothers of many children!

Save your marriage? You mean, you would leave your husband if you can’t use contraception to prevent another baby? How does your husband feel about your 2 blessings? Or do you cancel off his opinion because he doesn’t get to experience the joy of carrying a baby inside him, like you do?

I had all day nausea for 3 mos. with my 1st son, 4 mos. with my 2nd. Still, I loved being pregnant, even when my ankles swelled, my feet spread out, and I felt like Sigourney Weaver with an alien growing inside me because the babies would wake up when I wanted to sleep.

Get yourself to confession, sister. Do it now. Confess your selfishness. That’s what it is, selfishness. You are a MOTHER NOW. Not a college student any more. Be a mother to your children. You can go back to school later on. What were your plans anyway? You have just been given 2 eternal souls to foster here on earth! What career could top THAT?

:banghead:

Snap out of it.

This is one of those posts where *you *need to snap out of it. Do you not see the OP is struggling with more than just having chldren? Or is absolutely everyone supposed to feel as you do and that every child at every time is a blessing? Yes, kids are blessings, but don’t tell me there are not times you’ve thought of what it would be like to not have children or that it would be easier and less stressful if you did not, or had them at different times, etc. If you say you have not, you are not being honest.

Not everyone looks upon pregnancy as you do (hormones, stress, PPD?), but you sure as heck condemn them when they do not.

Get yourself to confession for being so ridiculously judgemental.