Ha! I can imagine. They probably thought you were being irreverant by wearing a ‘costume’ or some such nonsense. I think some people complain out of pride (they they were not consulted on everything) or simply because they like the sound of their voice.
I agree. It is inline with what Bro JR also said, our culture does not teach manners or respect, let alone reverence. I wonder if those girls’ parents even had any idea what they wore to Mass or that they had their phones/ipods out.A few months back, I was in a pew behind a 3 very chatty teenage girls. They were all wearing shorts that were way too short and pressing buttons on their cells phones when they weren’t giggling. **More than being angry, my heart wept for them. **They were in the confirmation class, so they maybe were 15, 16? I think they were there as part of a requirement for Confirmation. I am only 25, so I can remember being that age and I will admit, the mass was not at the top of my list of awe-inspiring things. But now, at 25…well I barely make it through the concecration with dry eyes
I prayed so hard for those girls. I prayed for God to let them “get it” someday. I prayed for them to realize the treasure they have been given before they go off to college or onto a career and become too influenced by the world without the lifeline of the mass. They giggled during the concecration. I thought of all the people going through RCIA who burn with anticipation of getting to partake in the Eucharist. I prayed and prayed and I haven’t seen them in church again (we have a big church and I don’t always sit in the same spot) but I think of them and I hope more than anything for them that they “get it” someday, that God just plants himself in their hearts and they get all of it.
Well, during the concecration as they giggled, this old guy with a cane walks up the isle to them and scream “You outta be ashamed of yourselves.” I agreed with him, yes, but I was shaking at the sound of his voice. The girls looked mad. They went up for communion anyways. But as he said the words to them “You outta be ashamed of yourselves” - something echoed back into my head “You outta be ashamed at yourselves” meaning this gentleman and I. Why? Because maybe we aren’t doing all we can. Maybe nobody has ever really sat them down and explained whats going on to them (I mean, I didn’t get much out of CCD myself, I learned it all afterwords thanks to great apologetics). Maybe I should have tapped those girls on the shoulder and told them about the concecration. Maybe after the incident I should have taken them aside and asked for their email addresses so I could sent them some great essays.
As I have followed this thread I have been continually drawn to the readings that were proclaimed during this past Sunday, particularly, the second…Nothing to apologize for – I meant every word.
Pacific Northwest - :sad_yes:I was there and as a sponsor, I know the future schedule, too.I must agree with JReducation’s post; as usual he makes perfect sense.
brigid12, where are you located (PNW); I cannot believe that the
RICA classes in your area (or any area, in fact) teach that the Eucharist is “simply a community meal”. Do you know that for a fact?
I definitely agree. I just think that the Mass should be “above” that - shows how old-fashioned I am.You know . . . sometimes we can beat a horse to death. And if we don’t let it die and burry it, it can begin to smell very badly. This is the case with dress code for mass.
Now, . . . don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that there should not be a dress code for mass. But the point is bigger than that. Sometimes we’re very narrow minded in our discussions on these threads. I tend to think that Catholics often suffer from microscopic vision.
If you notice, . . . and I ask you to really stop and think before you throw tomatoes at me. If you notice kids don’t know how to dress for school. How many kids go to school with pants around their bum with their boxers exposed. And look at the girls who go to school with their neckline and hemline about to meet.
Walk into a supermarket and you’re going to find someone with a t-shirt with a message on it, one that can’t be repeated in polite company, but it is on some yoyo’s t-shirt. And it’s worse when the yoyo is 50 years old. I can almost see how a teenager would think that a finger giving others the birdie is funny. But an adult is not a teenager, at least not chronologically.
I was in the hospital for a few weeks and I noticed that the nurses in the were wearing white. I was surprised. It had been a long time since I had seen nurses in white. I had gotten used to them in scrubs and sneakers and colored tops. When I was feeling better I asked the nurse who was taking care of me about the white. She rolled her eyes, as if to say that she was upset or frustrated and told me that the hospital had passed a dress code for nurses and doctors.
Then I remembered that the school that we run has a uniform and that we run after the boys all day long to pull up their pants, wear belt, tuck in their shirts, take off the ear rings, and wear the right shoes. The most difficult task that we have is impressing upon parents that kids don’t need cell phones and iPods in school.
The point I’m making is that we are looking through a microscope. The problem is not the mass or the parish. The problem is America. Americans are losing our good manners. We’re rude. We dress inappropriately, we speak inappropriately, we walk into public places speaking loudly on the cell phone, we hold a conversation while listening to an iPod.
C’mon, give me a break. Let’s call a spade a spade. America is becoming one of the most rude societies in the world. Where is the beginning of the problem . . . in the home.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Probably, however I don’t know if they’ve planned a more intensive teaching much later, in the winter(I would hope so, late 2009 and early 2010 teaching wasn’t available yet and probably has to do with Frs. availability, I’m guessing.) The candidates get to make their own choice as to when they enter the church, so I’m afraid a number of people may “slip through the cracks”. I will try to use the principle of subsidiarity and speak to someone on the RCIA team who may have a clearer way of presenting the teaching, I think. If not I will go to the pastor, however I fear that this is a losing battle in this archdiocese (and any letter I send to the Bishop will go to his liturgical committee, anyway).bridget, since you say you have witnessed the error in teaching at the RCIA classes in your church, do you not believe you have an obligation to ask your Bishop for help and assistance in correcting this fault?
I don’t think that you’re old fashioned. I think that you’re wise. Before I became a Francisan I was married and a widower. I raised two kids alone. Their mother died when they were 4 and 9, boy and girl. Today they’re in their 20s. Last Easter my kids came to visit me a the friary for the Easter Vigil. It seems that my 20-year old son had put on a dress pair of jeans and a polo shirt to attend the Vigil. Now, normally, this is not a bad choice in dress. The jeans were dressy and the polo had a collar. He was wearing shoes and socks. And he was well groomed.
Yes.
With all due respect, the parable of the wedding feast is an allegorical form of speaking of virtue and grace. It has nothing to do with external.
However, I was told my my 25-year old daughter that when she pulled up to pick him up and saw the jeans and polo she told him, "You’re not going to an Easter Vigil in that outfit. He explained that he had a shirt, but he does not know how to iron. She stepped out of the car and went inside to iron her brother’s shirt. He exchanged the jeans for black slacks and put on the shirt that his sister ironed for him.
Sounds like you’re an excellent father!:clapping:
The point that I’m making is where did they learn this? You guessed it. At home . . . . Since they were young they wore appropriate clothing for school, play, visits to grandma, travel and church. There were paly clothes, casuals, dress clothes, church clothes and other outfits. We were not rich. We purchased most of our clothing at Target. The school clothign were uniforms. Despite being a single dad, I taught them to separate their clothes according to context.
I shudder when I hear parents say that they can’t get their teens to dress appropriately for school, church or other. I never had to beat my kids, yell or punish. I simply had expectations and rules. My daughter wore her first sleeveless blouse at age 18, with my permission. Prior to that she wore polos, t-shirts and blouses. My son has never worn a tank-top. His shorts were always a few fingers above the knees and at the waist, not his bum. His shoes and sneakers were worn with socks. Sandals were worn at the beach To this day, he does not leave his room without a shirt, unless he’s making a mad dash for the fridge. He’s in college and he wears jeans and t-shirts, with socks and sneakers and NO offensive language or images on them. The only exception that he has been allowed to have is his hair. I don’t like his long hair, but you have to give some room for “rebellion”. I call it picking one’s battles.
A “rebellion” is part of leaving the nest, healthily. My daughter’s rebellion was a tattoo on her back - but she paid attention to my talking about the health aspects of the process of getting a tattoo, at least. I would imagine she’ll want it taken off fairly soon (it’s grown on it’s own when she was pregnant each time), but
Today, I live in a friary and they live on their own. My daughter has her own place and my son is at college. But they have rules that they follow and I don’t think that they even think of them as rules. I believe they are programmed since childhood.
Well, we were programmed in childhood and I don’t think of that as rules. Another word for programming children is “socialization”.
On a final note, there is one funny anectdote. Once, when my daughter was about 17 she went shopping with some friends who tried to get her to purchase a halter. She told her friends that she could not purchase it for two reasons, 1) she didn’t like them and 2) she would have to leave the county or her father would knock her head into next week and then burn the halter. The point is that the mores and consequences were very clear.
When adults don’t have the mores and consequences clear, how do we expect the younger generation to do so. I’m not sure that dress codes for church are enough. We need Catholic parenting classes too.
That’s probably true, however I think the people who came to those classes would be the ones who don’t really need it. “Preaching to the choir” is the phrase that comes to mind.
As I said, I can leave my young adults kids alone to live out their lives and join a religious community, because I have done my job. The rest is up to them.
And it sounds like you’ve done that better than many.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
I would respectfully disagree. I think the parable of the wedding feast is both allegory and about the externals (as is much of Scripture and the liturgies of the Church). If, as many orthodox theologians contend, our external often (not always!) expresses our heart - then…With all due respect, the parable of the wedding feast is an allegorical form of speaking of virtue and grace. It has nothing to do with external.
The Jews had a custom of wearing an alb over their street clothes to cover their dusty garments. The evangelists uses the example from everyday culture to drive home a point avout virtue and grace.
The best proof of this that we can find in Church history is the anchorites, hermits, and mendicants whose external appearance was not welcome in respectable society, but who were holy men and women and the fathers and mothers of Eastern and Western religious life.
Check out how the Franciscans of the Reform dress. Most conservatives find it shocking.
Fraternally.
Br. JR, OSF
I can agree with this. And I thank you for the kindness in the manner that you disagreed and presented your point. I wish that we all had the same approach. You’re an example of Christian evangelization. Keep it up.
And with the same level of respect I disagree. The specifics of the wedding feast of the son are much closer in analogy to the Mass and eternal life than the street clothes of the Jews.With all due respect, the parable of the wedding feast is an allegorical form of speaking of virtue and grace. It has nothing to do with external.
The Jews had a custom of wearing an alb over their street clothes to cover their dusty garments. The evangelists uses the example from everyday culture to drive home a point avout virtue and grace.
The best proof of this that we can find in Church history is the anchorites, hermits, and mendicants whose external appearance was not welcome in respectable society, but who were holy men and women and the fathers and mothers of Eastern and Western religious life.
Check out how the Franciscans of the Reform dress. Most conservatives find it shocking.
Fraternally.
Br. JR, OSF
While I agree with JR on the exegesis of this particular passage, I think we must remember the two or not mutually exclusive. Just like the Pharisees who Jesus said washed the outside of the cup and left the inside corrupt, the sin is not in leaving in cleaning the outside, but in interior neglect. The Church has spoken in principle about the need for appropriate attire, so let us not deny that we should not give or dress some though. I think the only time one crosses the line and goes beyond Church teaching is:
While I can certainly understand your sentiments, the same St. Paul who wrote this epistle also sharply criticized the Corinthians for their callous disregard for the liturgy.
I was going to say, “only their actions, (selfishness, disorder and cliqueishness) not their dress.” Then I remembered that he did actually give some instruction as to head-coverings. So there is precident for the Church enforcing some rules of dress should the Holy Father ever deem such a thing is needed.
The message of Paul was one of reverence and modesty. The rules that he sets, such as covering the head, were part of modesty in those days. I believe that if he saw a woman with a skirt to her knees he would have been shocked. The key to take from Paul is the call to Christian modesty and reverence. The point ti to remember modesty and reverence.
