M
Michaeljc4
Guest
This argument is now circular. Adios, amigos.
- Status
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
I always try to be “productive”.
Sometimes the experience on these forums reminds me a bit of kindergarten.
T
That_one_guy
Guest
and saw heaven thrown open and something like a big sheet being let down to earth by its four corners;
12 it contained every kind of animal, reptile and bird.
13 A voice then said to him, ‘Now, Peter, kill and eat!’
14 But Peter answered, ‘Certainly not, Lord; I have never yet eaten anything profane or unclean.’
15 Again, a second time, the voice spoke to him, ‘What God has made clean, you have no right to call profane.’
16 This was repeated three times, and then suddenly the container was drawn up to heaven again.
…
28 and Peter said to them, 'You know it is forbidden for Jews to mix with people of another race and visit them; but God has made it clear to me that I must not call anyone profane or unclean.
Only when they forget that Catholics are “contextualists”. Which, of course, means to take what is said in the proper context. Peter himself explains what it means right there in verse 28. I don’t need some footnote to tell me what it means.
T
That_one_guy
Guest
I have tried so many times to share this with people. But, they seemed threatened by the fact that I and others are pointing out the harms of the lifestyle of a meat eating culture. It is like we are trying to take their drug from them. In fact all of this has nothing to do with whether you can eat meat or not. It is the omnivores who keep bringing that part up, over and over and over, ad nauseum…
We are trying to show you the effects( that even THE POPE HIMSELF has acknowledged )
of factory farming and the gluttony of eating way more meat than you need has on everybody. It is like second hand smoke. I don’t care if you smoke. I just don’t want your poison in my lungs!
I don’t care if you eat meat! I just don’t want the poison produced at the factory farms in my food.
But, you guys conveniently ignore this. You take a defensive posture and come back with all sorts of misquotes and polemic conjectures and accusations.
Don’t hate the messenger. Just heed the warning.
sheesh!
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
For some reason I couldn’t open the site. However, I assume it is similar to the PETA films that have been on here before. I have been in integrator poultry houses, slaughter plants and I raise cattle myself.
Maybe animal raising operations can be found like the ones usually depicted, but the films I have seen before do not accurately depict what it’s really like in “mainstream” production by a long, long way.
One of the things I don’t think a lot of people realize is that maltreating animals is a money-losing thing to do. Ultimately, they all have to pass USDA inspection and bruises, breaks, bleeding, hematomas or infection, past or present cause all or part of the animal to be condemned. That’s a money-loser. The profit margins are narrow, and it doesn’t take much in the way of imperfections to turn a profit into a loss.
Do harm to an animal and the buyers can tell it. They want quality, and quality requires decent care. Their eyes are so practiced that they can see evidence of past or present abuse where the ordinary person can never see it and would never guess it.
Of industrial hog farms, I can’t say. I have only seen one, ever. It was clean, well lighted, temperature controlled and spacious, but hogs, to me, smell so bad, no matter how you raise them, that I was put off by it.
Maybe animal raising operations can be found like the ones usually depicted, but the films I have seen before do not accurately depict what it’s really like in “mainstream” production by a long, long way.
One of the things I don’t think a lot of people realize is that maltreating animals is a money-losing thing to do. Ultimately, they all have to pass USDA inspection and bruises, breaks, bleeding, hematomas or infection, past or present cause all or part of the animal to be condemned. That’s a money-loser. The profit margins are narrow, and it doesn’t take much in the way of imperfections to turn a profit into a loss.
Do harm to an animal and the buyers can tell it. They want quality, and quality requires decent care. Their eyes are so practiced that they can see evidence of past or present abuse where the ordinary person can never see it and would never guess it.
Of industrial hog farms, I can’t say. I have only seen one, ever. It was clean, well lighted, temperature controlled and spacious, but hogs, to me, smell so bad, no matter how you raise them, that I was put off by it.
T
That_one_guy
Guest
It happens every time. WE try to support the Vaticans position on global warming, factory farming, good stewardship and social/environmental justice,… and some clown comes in and starts crying,“Don’t take away our meat! Babies will die if you do! And God wants us to eat meat!”
It is the same nonsense time and time again.
And I fall for it, too.
M
Marfran
Guest
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:I have tried so many times to share this with people. But, they seemed threatened by the fact that I and others are pointing out the harms of the lifestyle of a meat eating culture. It is like we are trying to take their drug from them. In fact all of this has nothing to do with whether you can eat meat or not. It is the omnivores who keep bringing that part up, over and over and over, ad nauseum…
We are trying to show you the effects( that even THE POPE HIMSELF has acknowledged )
of factory farming and the gluttony of eating way more meat than you need has on everybody. It is like second hand smoke. I don’t care if you smoke. I just don’t want your poison in my lungs!
I don’t care if you eat meat! I just don’t want the poison produced at the factory farms in my food.
But, you guys conveniently ignore this. You take a defensive posture and come back with all sorts of misquotes and polemic conjectures and accusations.
Don’t hate the messenger. Just heed the warning.
M
Marfran
Guest
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:It happens every time. WE try to support the Vaticans position on global warming, factory farming, good stewardship and social/environmental justice,… and some clown comes in and starts crying,“Don’t take away our meat! Babies will die if you do! And God wants us to eat meat!”
It is the same nonsense time and time again.
And I fall for it, too.
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
:thumbsup:Thank you. A voice of reason.And experience.
Another thought is that if you over -medicate an animal or use unapproved drugs it will be traced right back to your farm.
Some of the sorriest livestock producers I’ve seen are the small scale backyard folks.Big doesn’t have to mean bad.It often means better run.And more likely to be inspected.
M
Marfran
Guest
That one guy: Start a new thread!!! You can get really hot-headed sometimes–but I like your passion!!! I’m sorry that I chose a PETA video to watch for this topic–as so many people have negative reactions and opinions to the organization. I would like to have a thread that inspires Catholics to look at some of the aspects of our stewardship of our planet, how we use and treat animals, and other practices that affect the health of our planet, its people and it’s future. I think that we disrepect God in a lot of ways by our “modern” methods.It happens every time. WE try to support the Vaticans position on global warming, factory farming, good stewardship and social/environmental justice,… and some clown comes in and starts crying,“Don’t take away our meat! Babies will die if you do! And God wants us to eat meat!”
It is the same nonsense time and time again.
And I fall for it, too.
T
That_one_guy
Guest
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
I actually think we’d agree that low-tech solutions can often make more sense in farming practices. Sometimes the answers are right there in nature & are cheaper,more cost effective & easier on the environment.
Believe me, farmers do not want to have to spend extra money on chemicals & medications if there’s a cheaper alternative that works.Rotational grazing, mixing cattle & sheep, goes a long way to reducing the parasite load in livestock.
Even in large scale operations there are simple ideas that are cost effective, and can reduce pollution.
But…you won’t hear about that through PETA.
Agriculture extension agents have lots of info. on good farming practices & sometimes have tours of local operations.There are some really innovative things going on in agriculture.Check out university sites on the internet & agricultural stations.
M
Marfran
Guest
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
Thank you Cracker Mom for being involved in this discussion in a positive way!!! Why do we all have to bust each others chops here??? How many people who have viewed that video, regardless of who produced it, think it’s OK??? Why don’t we all unite for animals treated this way, regardless of whether we are vegans, vegetarians, or omnivores???
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
For one thing,because the video’s baloney.
You could go into hospitals ,find & film patient abuse & devise a way to portray all hospitals as evil institutions. Because most folks have had at least a passing acquaintance with healthcare they’d immediately discount that allegation even though acknowledging abuses & poor management can occur.
Because only a tiny & increasingly shrinking percentage of Americans farm, it’s much easier to pass PETA propaganda on as gospel.
So, in short: I don’t hold with propaganda or manipulative devices to further an extremist agenda.
Livestock producers will always have to contend with poor management and employees.Employees abusing livestock are costing the producer money & will be disciplined or fired.As a previous poster stated, there is no reason for farmers to stress or injure their animals if they are farming for profit.It would be a self defeating practice. But logic sometimes is obscured by emotion in these threads.
So, I guess you’ll have to take my gold, good behavior stars back off the chart like they did in Kindergarten.I’m glad to be positive but not have the wool pulled over my eyes.
D
distracted
Guest
i’m female and my doctor said I have a darn-near perfect body…
thanks in large part to…
you guessed it:
Fatty pork!!
and fatty beef… and…
D
distracted
Guest
nice to see other intelligent life here…For one thing,because the video’s baloney.
You could go into hospitals ,find & film patient abuse & devise a way to portray all hospitals as evil institutions. Because most folks have had at least a passing acquaintance with healthcare they’d immediately discount that allegation even though acknowledging abuses & poor management can occur.
Because only a tiny & increasingly shrinking percentage of Americans farm, it’s much easier to pass PETA propaganda on as gospel.
So, in short: I don’t hold with propaganda or manipulative devices to further an extremist agenda.
Livestock producers will always have to contend with poor management and employees.Employees abusing livestock are costing the producer money & will be disciplined or fired.As a previous poster stated, there is no reason for farmers to stress or injure their animals if they are farming for profit.It would be a self defeating practice. But logic sometimes is obscured by emotion in these threads.
So, I guess you’ll have to take my gold, good behavior stars back off the chart like they did in Kindergarten.I’m glad to be positive but not have the wool pulled over my eyes.
.
C
cathybramble
Guest
just a couple of things… people keep saying how unprofitable it is for animals to be not taken care of properly… but i’m looking for an explanation as to why factory farmed animals need so many antibiotics if they are so healthy? 70% of the antibiotics made in the US is fed to livestock… so much so that antibiotic resistant bacteria is a very real and big concern.For one thing,because the video’s baloney.
You could go into hospitals ,find & film patient abuse & devise a way to portray all hospitals as evil institutions. Because most folks have had at least a passing acquaintance with healthcare they’d immediately discount that allegation even though acknowledging abuses & poor management can occur.
Because only a tiny & increasingly shrinking percentage of Americans farm, it’s much easier to pass PETA propaganda on as gospel.
So, in short: I don’t hold with propaganda or manipulative devices to further an extremist agenda.
Livestock producers will always have to contend with poor management and employees.Employees abusing livestock are costing the producer money & will be disciplined or fired.As a previous poster stated, there is no reason for farmers to stress or injure their animals if they are farming for profit.It would be a self defeating practice. But logic sometimes is obscured by emotion in these threads.
So, I guess you’ll have to take my gold, good behavior stars back off the chart like they did in Kindergarten.I’m glad to be positive but not have the wool pulled over my eyes.
the other thing is, statistically, the turnover rate for these jobs your’e describing is 100%. that is why producers tolerate employees who abuse animals… it is hard to find people to work in those places. ya know, i’m not a PETA fan myself, i disagree with most of what they say and do - but what motivation do they actually have for producing video after video on farm after farm, of these horrible things happening? the industry has a lot to gain from denying the abuse… but PETA… not so much to gain from exposing it
D
distracted
Guest
the animals are Not given antibiotics or hormones several weeks before slaughter so it is out of their systems by then… at least this is true of many factories and i believe it is a law in most states… if not ALL…
D
distracted
Guest
I’d like to know who the ONE is who voted Carnivore just to spite Vegetarians…
just curious…
just curious…
po18guy
Well-known member
Remember, for you to live, something has to die. Just because plants can’t scream, don’t think they do not suffer.
- Status