M
Marfran
Guest
This discussion is supposed to be about the treatment of animals in big agribusiness. Omnivores are just as affected by this, and maybe even more so, than the non-meateaters.
- Status
M
Marfran
Guest
**Eddie Mac **are you related to Big??? This is my thread, I created it, and I feel a responsibilty to see it through to the end–kind of like the responsibilty that a parent has for a child. I can tell that you are a warm, loving person and that is why I extended my hand in friendship to you. You can accept my hand in friendship or you can slap it away. Truce and start over, please?
M
Marfran
Guest
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:we have made many cogent arguments that illustrate our pointS. we have linked to other videos and other sources. the truth is, there are no sources of truth good enough for some people, and they will come in here bickering and telling us how we don’t care about the unborn and what an unworthy discussion this is, and why we shouldn’t tell people what to do, when we aren’t even doing that.
honestly, why on earth would i debate abortion on a catholic site? preaching to the choir doesn’t effect any change. but just because i don’t do it here, doesn’t mean i don’t do it - the insinuation that we don’t fight for the unborn is frankly very hurtful and the people saying it would be ashamed of what they’ve said, if they knew how involved i have been with pro-life organizations and how i have fought with other vegans over this issue. i have a facebook group just for pro-life vegans and vegetarians for hellsakes. i’m completely at loss to understand why some people come in here screaming that they feel judged, while judging others in this manner
incidentally - good you reported this thread. actually WE have been reporting this thread too on account of the poll being added by a hijacker and all the trolls from various people. we are just trying to have a discussion about factory farms. i don’t think we should be run off from that just because some people don’t feel it is worthy of good catholics.
Fabulous post, Cathy!!!
C
Catholic90
Guest
NPR - not a legitimate news source, IMO. Too leftist and controlled by the Democratic party. Flawed article.
And the article…read between the lines and be a critical thinker! That is the first thing they teach you in college - think critically!
Even the headline…“Diets Rich In Red Meat May Be Risky” – (or may not.)
“The major drawback of the study is that it relies on people’s memories, which are not always accurate.” (ya think!?)
"…it is difficult to draw conclusions based on surveys. " (really? who da thunk?)
I am now going to take up the cause against dihydrogen monoxide, which is the source of many problems. (probably even more than factory farming!!) Are you aware of the damage this chemical can cause?
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Ah, you guys are a fun distraction on a boring Saturday night! Good entertainment!
M
Marfran
Guest
Then please tell us **Why **you did join, and why you tried to disrupt the discussions by telling us that our topic was not worthy and that we should focus on people problems and abortion instead.
4
4elise
Guest
Judging the content without reading it?
If some of the responses you’ve received or read have sounded ‘frustrated’ it is because by not reading all the post you seem to be responding to someone telling you what to eat…
It is the source of the steak, burger, chops and ribs - coming from factory farms - that was the original discussion point - other response have been to the challenges that it is elitist, non pro-life, judgemental, etc., etc., etc., — to suggest that a person consider the source of their food as it may impact others.
Were you aware that Marfran started this forum and that someone else added the poll - I think you would agree using inflamitory language -
Personally I’m a vegan - and I am happy to share the WHY of my choice, and I believe I always try to do so in a respectful way - if you chose to eat meat, and you think being vegan is foolish - W H Y - do you join this forum?
Do you want to know more about factory farming? Do you want some vegan recipes?
Do you just disagree with the facts put forward about factory farming - and if so are you however OPEN to discussion where people could present information that might sway your opinion or are you set in your opinion?
M
Marfran
Guest
You should have been here last night!!! It was a real barn buster!!!
C
cathybramble
Guest
if the pope said it himself you probably wouldn’t believe it. nonetheless understand i do not wish you ill health - but if you want to talk about family histories, my dad’s parents both died of heart disease before the age of 65. my dad is 70 now and has no hint of it. according to his doc, it’s because of his diet. likewise my mom has t2 diabetes and a host of other problems directly related to her diet… which her parents didn’t have.
i think it’s sad that you are so very lonely this saturday night that you consider baiting us and ridiculing our discussion as “entertainment.” God bless. i’m going to go cook a pizza (i’m fascinated with my new-found ability to cook real pizza crust LOL)
incidentally i am a college graduate… applied mathematics. i’ve forgotten more about critical thinking and logic than most people will ever learn.
C
Catholic90
Guest
i think it’s sad that you are so very lonely this saturday night that you consider baiting us and ridiculing our discussion as “entertainment.” God bless. i’m going to go cook a pizza (i’m fascinated with my new-found ability to cook real pizza crust LOL)
mmmmm, definitely NOT lonely! I have a houseful of people (teenagers) and this is my escape from the NOISE!!So my entertainment is you guys or listening to teenagers…tough choice, I know!
incidentally i am a college graduate… applied mathematics. i’ve forgotten more about critical thinking and logic than most people will ever learn.
Well, then you should know the NPR article you referenced is fatally flawed!
Happy eating! (incidentally, sausage, black olives, mushrooms, and onions make the BEST pizza toppings! Mmmmmm! Have fun!
4
4elise
Guest
Oh, wait he did
Pope Benedict XVI has stated that human “dominion” over animals does not justify factory farming. While head of the Roman Catholic Church’s Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the future pope condemned the “industrial use of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds.” This “degrading of living creatures to a commodity” seemed to him “to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible.” ----
C
cathybramble
Guest
i have a version of sausage i make from vital wheat gluten… all the flavor, none of the bad stuff.
ah a houseful of teenagers huh? that should be enough entertainment for anyone… i do miss my girls being home, but they are grown now and i have a 2 year old grandbaby a few times a week to entertain me instead
but really to get satisfaction from baiting and arguing against people who haven’t done anything wrong to you… maybe you should hang around with the young people for a while, you know? get some joi d’vivre in your soul again so you don’t have to be acrimonious in order to have fun.
A
Abbadon
Guest
Damn totally missed the very heated debate.
It seems there is alot of, animals are treated cruelly vs. no their not.
Isn’t the purpose of free range labeling on food to promote ethical treatment of animals?
Factory Farming is cruel, that is why I buy free range, however I can still understand how some people have ethical quams about killing something that has a brain. For me personally I draw the line at sentience and as a result I will not eat anything of the primate family. I’m also touch and go on pig and horses, I will not go out of my way to eat such animals but where they presented to me I would not refuse.
And personally there are several vegetarian foods that I enjoy, spinach and ricotta cataloni being one of them, and i LOVE mushroom. But I also love my lamb and sheep defiantly have not achieved a level of sentience for me to consider not eating them.
Vegetarians/vegans for ethical reasons need to understand that not everyone thinks of animals in such high regard as they do. Also I’m curious as to where you draw the line? What is the requirement for your regard of it? A brain? What does it mean to have a brain? Must this brain have special functions?
Personally I see no difference between a chicken and a protist, other than the amount of cells per organism.
C
cathybramble
Guest
we posted that before but someone said they didn’t like the source we found mentioning it. of course. and it was from the dioceses of los angeles’ newsletterOh, wait he did
Pope Benedict XVI has stated that human “dominion” over animals does not justify factory farming. While head of the Roman Catholic Church’s Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the future pope condemned the “industrial use of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds.” This “degrading of living creatures to a commodity” seemed to him “to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible.” ----
someone else didn’t like me using the us council of catholic bishops. the pew commission isn’t good enough. PBS and BBC aren’t good enough. the FDA and EPA sites are also not good enough. and yet i don’t see one single source from others that refutes anything we are saying
T
That_one_guy
Guest
“Animal Rights” vs. Human Rights
October 1, 2006. Sometimes sincere people concerned with protecting innocent human life will express sentiments along these lines: “Animal rights advocates are eager to protect all kinds of animal life, but seem to ignore the most important animal of all, the human animal. They are willing to save the whales, but abort the humans. Protecting animals can never be as important a task as protecting young humans from abortion, embryonic stem cell research or other forms of experimentation.” Such a viewpoint, though fundamentally correct, should not be taken to signify that animal abuse in our society is an ethical issue that we can forget about. Rather, concern for exercising proper stewardship over animals ought to be a balanced part of a broader concern to avoid exploiting the vulnerable, wherever they are encountered.
The Catholic Church recognizes how man holds a special place in creation, while remaining an integral part of that creation. Made uniquely in God’s image and likeness, he still belongs to the animal kingdom. Feet on the ground, head looking up to the stars, man exercises a limited dominion over the world and over the remainder of creation, including the animal kingdom. He perennially faces the question of how to properly exercise that dominion, which is not an absolute right of domination over God’s creation. He is called to reasonably use, rather than abuse, the powers he has received.
To be precise, we should not speak of animal rights but of animal welfare. Animals do not have rights in the way that humans do. Animal welfare means that we recognize that animals can be used for reasonable purposes, but should not be abused.
more at
ncbcenter.org/FrTad_MSOOB_16.asp
October 1, 2006. Sometimes sincere people concerned with protecting innocent human life will express sentiments along these lines: “Animal rights advocates are eager to protect all kinds of animal life, but seem to ignore the most important animal of all, the human animal. They are willing to save the whales, but abort the humans. Protecting animals can never be as important a task as protecting young humans from abortion, embryonic stem cell research or other forms of experimentation.” Such a viewpoint, though fundamentally correct, should not be taken to signify that animal abuse in our society is an ethical issue that we can forget about. Rather, concern for exercising proper stewardship over animals ought to be a balanced part of a broader concern to avoid exploiting the vulnerable, wherever they are encountered.
The Catholic Church recognizes how man holds a special place in creation, while remaining an integral part of that creation. Made uniquely in God’s image and likeness, he still belongs to the animal kingdom. Feet on the ground, head looking up to the stars, man exercises a limited dominion over the world and over the remainder of creation, including the animal kingdom. He perennially faces the question of how to properly exercise that dominion, which is not an absolute right of domination over God’s creation. He is called to reasonably use, rather than abuse, the powers he has received.
To be precise, we should not speak of animal rights but of animal welfare. Animals do not have rights in the way that humans do. Animal welfare means that we recognize that animals can be used for reasonable purposes, but should not be abused.
more at
ncbcenter.org/FrTad_MSOOB_16.asp
C
cathybramble
Guest
well aside from the obvious (beak, feathers, etc.), a chicken has the capability to suffer, whereas a protist is lacking a complex central nervous system.
A
Abbadon
Guest
Of course, hence why I buy free range. However the value at which I put on the life of a chicken is no greater than that or a protist. Actually I find the protists life far more valuable as we can learn so much from it, silicone micro structuring, adhesives and secondary endosymbiosis and endosymbiosis.well aside from the obvious (beak, feathers, etc.), a chicken has the capability to suffer, whereas a protist is lacking a complex central nervous system.
If you consider what a single cellular life is, you will realize that we are just made up of billions of those. So what makes a multi cellular creature special? For me it is sentience for others it may be the ability to suffer.
A
Abbadon
Guest
Couldn’t agree more.
A
Abbadon
Guest
So is the greatest moral issue vegetarians have the suffering of multicultural life with a nervous system, and you just do not wish to take part in that?
If there was no suffering and death was instant an painless what then?
If there was no suffering and death was instant an painless what then?
T
That_one_guy
Guest
No.At least not for me, anyway. You see, I’m pro life.
I want a sustainable planet with clean air and clean water. Food that is untainted and abundant enough for everybody. If and/when the pro life movement is victorious, then we are going to need these things for or children and our grand children, etc so on and such…
Right now we are using up and polluting our resources at such a rate that in theory we could be out of everything within a few generations.
Of course, I also believe that the amount of food that is wasted feeding crop animals could feed so many more humans than cows can. I am sure you will question this so I am on top of my resources to be ready when you do.
ps-did I mention I don’t care if you eat meat?
C
cathybramble
Guest
in that case you’d be talking about plants
- Status