Another scandal arrest

[mgrfin]

Remember the McMartin Nursery Day school in Manhattan Beach, Ca in the early 80’s.

By spring of 1984, 360 children had been identified as having been abused. No physical evidence was found to support the allegations. The mother who made the original complaint was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in the same year.

It became like the Salem witch hunt. Most of the allegations were not true, and the children admitted to things by suggestion of the psychologists.

The Church doesn’t want to be in this position. It wants to be concered for the possible abused, and didn’t want to accused of stonewalling. But a lot of the allegations nowadays are just not true, but the priests in question, were wrongfully discharged, without any rights, any job, any place to go.
mgrfin

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

… Is there not a point in time that the Church can draw the line? If not, they will just keep popping up into eternity. They are really out to destroy the Church. Face it, the well is only so deep. Don’t misunderstand, I believe the Church should pay restitution,

May I suggest the line to draw was and is, do not cover up child abuse or other crimes that if commit by a lay person would result in arrest and fines or jail time.

As far as paying restitution, how about seeing if instead of paying settlements that keep the priests involved from serving jail time or community service (not just preaching to others how to love one another from the pulpit), maybe the Church can see if some of the priest involved will submit to justice for their actions? Perhaps a little jail time? Paul served in jail for preaching the Gospel, so if he served jail time unjustly, is it really too much to ask priests who abused children to serve a just jail time?

Michael

 

[Teelynn]

May I suggest the line to draw was and is, do not cover up child abuse or other crimes that if commit by a lay person would result in arrest and fines or jail time.

As far as paying restitution, how about seeing if instead of paying settlements that keep the priests involved from serving jail time or community service (not just preaching to others how to love one another from the pulpit), maybe the Church can see if some of the priest involved will submit to justice for their actions? Perhaps a little jail time? Paul served in jail for preaching the Gospel, so if he served jail time unjustly, is it really too much to ask priests who abused children to serve a just jail time?

Michael

Some priests if you remember, have served jail time. How long ago was it that one of the priests died in jail. I do believe someone on the inside got to him. I am not against a priest serving jail time as long as they are not fed to the lions. They would have to be housed in a seperate section or it would beyond a shadow of a doubt be giving them the death sentence.

And there was one priest (I believe it was in Joliet, IL.) that actually fought the case claiming innocense and won. Makes you wonder how many people are jumping on the band wagon and if in fact they are legitimate victims.

 

[po18guy]

Evidence of Satan’s work surrounds us. The evil one has been tempting us (in his egomaniacal arrogance, even trying to tempt our Perfect Lord), since that is his job as king of the scorpions. He has polluted our society, our culture, and comes against the one true church by tempting all priests and temporarily gaining possession of a few of them.

Just as in so many other problems, the root cause is almost completely ignored. I re-read Job 1:6-7 and the cause is clear. Remember, there are those demons who are cast out only through prayer.

Let’s commit to prayer for them.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Mt 28 19_20;2556015:

Some priests if you remember, have served jail time. How long ago was it that one of the priests died in jail. I do believe someone on the inside got to him. I am not against a priest serving jail time as long as they are not fed to the lions. They would have to be housed in a seperate section or it would beyond a shadow of a doubt be giving them the death sentence.

And there was one priest (I believe it was in Joliet, IL.) that actually fought the case claiming innocense and won. Makes you wonder how many people are jumping on the band wagon and if in fact they are legitimate victims.

Mr Keating’s letter from April 2007 reports that about 11% of accustations were either proven untrue, or not able to be substantiated. As you demonstrate, many seem to have conveniently assumed that many people are jumping on the band wagon. Wonder why? Easier to pretend it is not as much of a problem as it really is? How many of those same people would ignore/pretend a small tumor doesn’t exist?
catholic.com/newsletters/kke_070417.asp

I was not aware many priests had served jail time. Anyone have any idea how many of those with reasonably substantiated accusations have served jail time, instead of settlements being agreed to? How would that percentate compare to everyday Joes or lay Catholics accused of the same?

Good for any priest who is falsely accused and fights for the truth. Which is something many ordinary people do as well. Isn’t the whole idea justice, and not just giving a priest the benefit of the doubt mostly because they are priests? We are not to give preference based on status. James 2:1-13

Michael

 

[Teelynn]

Teelynn;2557753:

Mr Keating’s letter from April 2007 reports that about 11% of accustations were either proven untrue, or not able to be substantiated. As you demonstrate, many seem to have conveniently assumed that many people are jumping on the band wagon. Wonder why? Easier to pretend it is not as much of a problem as it really is? How many of those same people would ignore/pretend a small tumor doesn’t exist?
catholic.com/newsletters/kke_070417.asp

I was not aware many priests had served jail time. Anyone have any idea how many of those with reasonably substantiated accusations have served jail time, instead of settlements being agreed to? How would that percentage compare to everyday Joes or lay Catholics accused of the same?

Good for any priest who is falsely accused and fights for the truth. Which is something many ordinary people do as well. Isn’t the whole idea justice, and not just giving a priest the benefit of the doubt mostly because they are priests? We are not to give preference based on status. James 2:1-13

Michael

Nope, not saying that at all. What I am pointing out is that there are some people who will not hesitate to “jump on the band wagon” claiming to be victims that are in fact not. Goes with the territory when this kind of a thing is “on a roll.” In such cases as these, how many witnesses are there normally? What kind of real evidence can be found? With the priest in Joliet who won his case, for one thing just made the local news…never made national news. Wonder why that was? When hearing about this locally, they reported that this priest had real guts to enter a plea of innocence because if the jury didn’t buy it and he lost, he would definitely go to jail of course. I’m not an authority on exactly how the judicial process works but you can bet that it’s not a black and white issue. And yes, far too many priests are unfortunately guilty of this heinous thing but you’d have to be pretty naive to think that everyone accused is 100% guilty.
As far as giving a priest the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think you could find a jury in Timbuktu that would give a priest a fair trial now. The jury wouldn’t be out for 5 minutes and come back with a guilty verdict sure as I’m sitting here. “Ordinary people” would have a better shot at justice than a Catholic priest.

Just to give you an idea, it’s gotten so bad in the schools that last year a kindergartner accused a relative of mine (teacher) of molesting her. (this little girl was 5 yrs old) Thank goodness there was an aid with him at all times during classes that could verify his actions. Ended up this kid was angry with him and wanted to get him in trouble. Kids in public schools have ruined certain teachers’ careers, and lives for that matter that it ends up they were not being honest. This is no isolated case. Happens more than you would think. (no way would I ever pursue a teaching career in this day and age )

Bottom line is that yes there is a very small percentage of priests being falsely accused but the fact is, it does happen. And yes, “what is being done for these men?”

Satin is alive and well in 2007.

 

[mgrfin]

May I suggest the line to draw was and is, do not cover up child abuse or other crimes that if commit by a lay person would result in arrest and fines or jail time.

As far as paying restitution, how about seeing if instead of paying settlements that keep the priests involved from serving jail time or community service (not just preaching to others how to love one another from the pulpit), maybe the Church can see if some of the priest involved will submit to justice for their actions? Perhaps a little jail time? Paul served in jail for preaching the Gospel, so if he served jail time unjustly, is it really too much to ask priests who abused children to serve a just jail time?

Michael

Too many, or not enough, depending where you stand on the issue. One got choked to death in prison, others have committed suicide.

In any event, I don’t want to count heads. God help us in our pain.

peace,
mgrfin

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Mt 28 19_20;2560324:

…but you’d have to be pretty naive to think that everyone accused is 100% guilty.
As far as giving a priest the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think you could find a jury in Timbuktu that would give a priest a fair trial now. The jury wouldn’t be out for 5 minutes and come back with a guilty verdict sure as I’m sitting here. “Ordinary people” would have a better shot at justice than a Catholic priest.

Yes, it would be pretty naive to think everyone accused is 100% guilty. Or 90% guilty for that matter. Just like the report shows one would be pretty naive to think 90% of the accusers are just jumping on the band wagon.

I’m not so sure they wouldn’t be able to get a reasonably fair trial. Though if that was true, who is largely responsible for that attitude? Perhaps the leadership or ignored and covered-up, moved around accused molesters? If this had been handled better, perhaps public opinion would be more favorable? Give people a reason to trust someone, and more often than not they will.

Michael

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Too many, or not enough, depending where you stand on the issue. One got choked to death in prison, others have committed suicide.

In any event, I don’t want to count heads. God help us in our pain.

peace,
mgrfin

Too many or not enough? Depending?

Are too many who are reasonably found guilty of molesting children doing jail time? If they are guilty, how is doing jail time too much?

How many of those who were abused have committed suicide? And what’s a priest doing committing suicide? Can one go from preaching one’s faith, to abandoning one’s faith and hope in God, unless their faith really wasn’t as deep as one would like to pretend it was?

The Church’s self-inflicted pain. God’s justice. And the pain doesn’t seem to be enough to have most Catholics be more sympathetic for the abused, instead of the abuser. Protect the reputation of the priest first, and the abused second, if at all. Atleast that’s the way it seems sometimes listen to some focus on the minority of innocently accused priests, as opposed to those who were abused.

Michael

 

[mgrfin]

Teelynn;2567068:

Yes, it would be pretty naive to think everyone accused is 100% guilty. Or 90% guilty for that matter. Just like the report shows one would be pretty naive to think 90% of the accusers are just jumping on the band wagon.

I’m not so sure they wouldn’t be able to get a reasonably fair trial. Though if that was true, who is largely responsible for that attitude? Perhaps the leadership or ignored and covered-up, moved around accused molesters? If this had been handled better, perhaps public opinion would be more favorable? Give people a reason to trust someone, and more often than not they will.

Michael

You are right.
That’s why Cardinal Mahoney settled. Civil Jury trials were about to begin. He knew he didn’t stand a chance. The LA Times has been all over him for years, and would never cut him any slack.

Also, the reason by Bishop Brown in Orange County jumped the gun by settling. He got a relatively good settlement. It only cost the diocese (relatively new) $100 million, 80% of which was covered by insurance.

San Diego and Portland have already declared bankruptcy.

We’ll get through it, with prayers for the victims, and for the accused, and for ourselves.

Peace

mgrfin

 

[gradstud35]

I acutally pray that the priesthood will be purged of this type of rift raft almost every day of my life. Of course, my prayer isn’t quite that harsh. But if a priest is following his own will and not God’s and clearly doesn’t feel the need to repent, then they need to be exposed. As hard as it is for the Church to bear the bad publicity, we will be better off in the end when we have repentent priests who do the will of God.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I think that a line has to be set on how long people can make allegations against a priest. Or anyone for that matter. The time period should be the same for anyone. Not longer for some because of whom they work/ed for. Evil is evil no matter whom is doing it.

IMHO if the priest is dead then no charges should be made against him or his parish.

If no charges or allegations were ever mad against a retired priest then you go by the age of the accuser and limit the time frame. Lets say 10 years after the accuser becomes an adult.

If charges or allegations have been brought forward (and felt to be credible) and nothing was ever done about the situation then you get to bring the Bishop that was in charge at the time into the mix. But, only if the Bishop knowingly turned a blind eye to the situation. Again this is only for a set time period after the accuser becomes an adult (maybe 15 years).

The average person sitting in the pew yesterday, today or tomorrow should not be held responsible for the actions he or she had no knowledge of. The end of the story. Period.

 

[mgrfin]

I acutally pray that the priesthood will be purged of this type of rift raft almost every day of my life. Of course, my prayer isn’t quite that harsh. But if a priest is following his own will and not God’s and clearly doesn’t feel the need to repent, then they need to be exposed. As hard as it is for the Church to bear the bad publicity, we will be better off in the end when we have repentent priests who do the will of God.

I don’t think pedaphilia can be cured. If a priest is guilty of this, he should be removed from the priesthood. We can worry about his material, psychological and spiritual welfare afterwards, and it is much cheaper, than to keep him in a roman collar.

peace,
mgrfin

 

[mgrfin]

I think that a line has to be set on how long people can make allegations against a priest. Or anyone for that matter. The time period should be the same for anyone. Not longer for some because of whom they work/ed for. Evil is evil no matter whom is doing it.

IMHO if the priest is dead then no charges should be made against him or his parish.

If no charges or allegations were ever mad against a retired priest then you go by the age of the accuser and limit the time frame. Lets say 10 years after the accuser becomes an adult.

If charges or allegations have been brought forward (and felt to be credible) and nothing was ever done about the situation then you get to bring the Bishop that was in charge at the time into the mix. But, only if the Bishop knowingly turned a blind eye to the situation. Again this is only for a set time period after the accuser becomes an adult (maybe 15 years).

The average person sitting in the pew yesterday, today or tomorrow should not be held responsible for the actions he or she had no knowledge of. The end of the story. Period.

I think most states have a statue of limitations on child abuse, or sexual abuse allegations.

But the church has not used that ‘out’ to free itself of concern for those abused. Spiritual, psychological, and even material care has been forthcoming on proven, criminal allegations. In some of these cases, the Diocese may have known of these cases, and kept the individual priest in the ministry, having him ‘treated’ and sent off to another assignment.

Apparently, that just didn’t work.

peace,
mgrfin

 

[Excelency]

I tried talking about this kind of thing on christianforums.com and they ran me out like I was the accuser and the perpetrator. They called me a troller and a liar and basically cursed me. What gives here? No hatered?

 

[mgrfin]

I tried talking about this kind of thing on christianforums.com and they ran me out like I was the accuser and the perpetrator. They called me a troller and a liar and basically cursed me. What gives here? No hatered?

I don’t know the site. Maybe they were not being that ‘christian’ about it. Maybe they felt you were piling it on, and were somewhat threatened.

I don’t like the topic myself. I know some clerics who were accused of this kind of stuff, and I was surprised. I don’t know whehter the accusations were true or not.

It’s the 8 ft gorilla in the living room. Acknowledge its existence, then show the gorilla the door.

peace,
mgrfin

 

[KathleenElsie]

I think most states have a statue of limitations on child abuse, or sexual abuse allegations.

But the church has not used that ‘out’ to free itself of concern for those abused. Spiritual, psychological, and even material care has been forthcoming on proven, criminal allegations. In some of these cases, the Diocese may have known of these cases, and kept the individual priest in the ministry, having him ‘treated’ and sent off to another assignment.

Apparently, that just didn’t work.

peace,
mgrfin

Well some states changed the rules so that the people could go after the Catholic Church. They did nothing about the public school teachers and others that also stand accused.

 

[geezerbob]

The Church is in a no win situation with the statutes of limitations. If it argues in court that changes in statutes aimed directly and only at the Church are unfair and unconstitutional, critics will claim that it’s trying to evade its responsibility to the victims. On the other hand, by doing nothing, it leaves itself open to abuse by lawyers and “victims” who are out for a quick buck.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll repeat what happened in the Diocese of Charleston a couple of months ago. Within a week after the announcement that $12 million was being set aside for future abuse claims, 48 new “victims” crawled out of the woodwork, all represented by the same attorney. Some claimed abuse going back 50 years and many allegations were against priests who died long ago and can no longer defend themselves. Some of the claims may be legitimate, but the timing makes them all look like vultures fighting for their place at the carcass of a dead animal.

 

[mgrfin]

Well some states changed the rules so that the people could go after the Catholic Church. They did nothing about the public school teachers and others that also stand accused.

California provided a one year opening of the statutes of limitation in these case, and some went forward. The California Supreme reversed that extension

Abuse victims were deeply and understandably upset by the decision in Stogner. As a result of the ruling, predators bound for prison got off scot-free. For some, it seemed too much to bear.

But the Supreme Court had little choice. Upholding California’s law would have required a rather drastic revision of the Ex Post facto prohibition.

peace

mgrfin
.

 

[Excelency]

I can’t help but think that at least some of these cases are bogus.
Some I sadly acknowledge “may” be true. My question is, does anyone think this is a satanic assault on the clergy?

Yes, I hate to think about too and it really ruffels my feathers but there is no end to the assaults by the anti Catholics on the legitimacy of our faith. They say we are not even Christians and that we are not saved by faith in Christ, you all know this. So what is the chance that satan is the one who is ultimatly behind all this?