B
buffalo
Guest
No - I said being gay is the problem. See in other posts what I have said about chaste homosexuals.
- Status
B
buffalo
Guest
Here is what the Catechism says:
Chastity and homosexuality
[2357](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2357.htm’)
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
[2359](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2359.htm’) Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Chastity and homosexuality
[2357](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2357.htm’) Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
[2359](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2359.htm’) Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
S
snoopy
Guest
It sounds to me like you think he was dishonest either way. That’s why he can’t win. You already think he is a liar even though he possibly did not know what he was when he was ordained.
S
snoopy
Guest
Why do you want him in the priesthood anyway? As a homosexual priest, you obviously have no respect for him.
N
Nohome
Guest
While I agree that it was his choice to leave, I feel it is unfair to say he is leaving because he “refuses to obey”. For all we know, he has lived a celibate life and remained true to his vows.
He stated that he no longer feels comfortable “wearing the uniform” of the priesthood. It is unlikely that he is the first person ever to come to such a crossroad, regardless of the underlying cause. If you ask me, he is showing a great deal of respect for the priesthood by not pretending he is something that he isn’t.
Nohome
F
fix
Guest
How are you jumping to this conclusion? The point is he is ordained. He took vows, or made special promises. He can keep them. The rest seems to be grandiosity and persecution complexes.
B
buffalo
Guest
Snoop = now taking it from here - from the document
In light of this rich teaching, the present Instruction does not intend to linger on all the questions by nature emotional or sexual that require careful discernment throughout the whole period of the formation. It contains norms regarding a particular question, made more urgent by the present situation, that is that of the admission or non-admission to the seminary and Holy Orders of candidates who have profoundly deep-rooted homosexual tendencies.
…Because of this configuration to Christ, the entire life of the holy priest must be animated by the gift of his whole person to the Church and with an authentic pastoral love. The candidate for ordained ministry, therefore, must reach emotional maturity. T**hat maturity renders him able to put himself in the proper relation with men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood toward the ecclesial community entrusted to him.
…**In light of this teaching, this department, in agreement with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, holds it necessary clearly to affirm that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, may not admit to the seminary and Holy Orders those who **practice homosexuality, show profoundly deep-rooted homosexual tendencies, or support the so-called gay culture.
**
In light of this rich teaching, the present Instruction does not intend to linger on all the questions by nature emotional or sexual that require careful discernment throughout the whole period of the formation. It contains norms regarding a particular question, made more urgent by the present situation, that is that of the admission or non-admission to the seminary and Holy Orders of candidates who have profoundly deep-rooted homosexual tendencies.
…Because of this configuration to Christ, the entire life of the holy priest must be animated by the gift of his whole person to the Church and with an authentic pastoral love. The candidate for ordained ministry, therefore, must reach emotional maturity. T**hat maturity renders him able to put himself in the proper relation with men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood toward the ecclesial community entrusted to him.
…**In light of this teaching, this department, in agreement with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, holds it necessary clearly to affirm that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, may not admit to the seminary and Holy Orders those who **practice homosexuality, show profoundly deep-rooted homosexual tendencies, or support the so-called gay culture.
**
S
snoopy
Guest
wordplay.
F
fix
Guest
I do appreciate when folks leave and do not stay and pretend they are obedient when they are not, but leaving under the conditions stated in the article hardly can be viewed as submissive to the authority of the Church. In fact, he specfically is leaving because he thinks his understanding is superior to the Church.
B
buffalo
Guest
cont’d
It remains understood that the candidate himself has the first responsibility for his own formation. He must offer himself with faith to the discernment of the Church, the bishop who calls to Orders, the rector of the seminary, the spiritual director, and the other teachers of the seminary to whom the bishop or the superior general has entrusted the duty of forming future priests. It would be gravely dishonest if a candidate were to hide his own homosexuality to enter, notwithstanding everything, to Ordination. An attitude so inauthentic does not correspond to the spirit of truth, allegiance, and availability that must characterize the personality of he who believes to be called to serve Christ and His Church in the priestly ministry.
It remains understood that the candidate himself has the first responsibility for his own formation. He must offer himself with faith to the discernment of the Church, the bishop who calls to Orders, the rector of the seminary, the spiritual director, and the other teachers of the seminary to whom the bishop or the superior general has entrusted the duty of forming future priests. It would be gravely dishonest if a candidate were to hide his own homosexuality to enter, notwithstanding everything, to Ordination. An attitude so inauthentic does not correspond to the spirit of truth, allegiance, and availability that must characterize the personality of he who believes to be called to serve Christ and His Church in the priestly ministry.
F
fix
Guest
No, that word carries a specific ideology and political content.
B
buffalo
Guest
Not at all - they have specific meaning to the Church.
B
Brad
Guest
You hear correctly. With one exception. Incredibly bad seminary formation that would make him think that a vow of obedience to the Church did not mean obeying what She says. Almost implausible.
And if this were the case, and, as you say, he did not know what he was, then why should he stay what he is when he is not what he thought he was? I have a greater respect for those that practice intellectual honesty than those that practice subversive authoritarianism.
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fkpl
Guest
It is fitting that this priest left. He cannot be trusted in the confessional given his expressed sentiments, whether or not he is a homosexual.
S
Siena
Guest
He show GREAT disrespect for the priesthood to use his anger and hurt as a soapbox to rail against the legitamate authority of the church. If he had problems, they should have been discussed privately with his spiritual director, whose job it would have been to help him come to accept the truth of this reaffirmed teaching. This current action is a cause of scandal.
W
Walt_Oliver
Guest
A gentle word to the wise:
You may not claim to know what is in another’s heart, good or bad, be it a public figure, another poster, or anyone else.
Please limit the discussion to stated facts, not your inferences or assumptions. There has been way too much of the latter posted in this thread this afternoon.
There will be no further warning. If you find yourself suspended with no explanation, just go back and read your posts.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Walt
You may not claim to know what is in another’s heart, good or bad, be it a public figure, another poster, or anyone else.
Please limit the discussion to stated facts, not your inferences or assumptions. There has been way too much of the latter posted in this thread this afternoon.
There will be no further warning. If you find yourself suspended with no explanation, just go back and read your posts.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Walt
C
cathgal
Guest
The Church said nothing about booting an ordained homosexual, just a homosexual in formation.
If this priest is a homosexual who lives a chaste life and believes that being a homosexual is a disorder, then I would have great respect for him and appreciate that he continues with his vocation. But, he clearly implies that being homosexual is normal and that the Church is wrong, so he leaves his vocation.
“It’s like a Jew wearing a Nazi uniform,” Walker said. “I could no longer stay in that institution with any amount of integrity.”
Why can’t he just leave with dignity for whatever reason he has. Like he can’t live up to the teaching of the Church, so it’s not right to continue his vocation. Like a wolve in sheep clothing rather than ‘Jew wearing a Nazi uniform’. I will respect him for that. But to imply that the Church is like a Nazi and he’s wearing a Nazi uniform?? That just said it all about what he thinks of the Church’s teaching. He will not serve.
Yes, it’s better that he leaves. Unfortunately, it was not for the right reason.
If this priest is a homosexual who lives a chaste life and believes that being a homosexual is a disorder, then I would have great respect for him and appreciate that he continues with his vocation. But, he clearly implies that being homosexual is normal and that the Church is wrong, so he leaves his vocation.
“It’s like a Jew wearing a Nazi uniform,” Walker said. “I could no longer stay in that institution with any amount of integrity.”
Why can’t he just leave with dignity for whatever reason he has. Like he can’t live up to the teaching of the Church, so it’s not right to continue his vocation. Like a wolve in sheep clothing rather than ‘Jew wearing a Nazi uniform’. I will respect him for that. But to imply that the Church is like a Nazi and he’s wearing a Nazi uniform?? That just said it all about what he thinks of the Church’s teaching. He will not serve.
Yes, it’s better that he leaves. Unfortunately, it was not for the right reason.
G
Gabriel_Gale
Guest
Does the attraction of a married man to other women mean that that man is an adulterer or a polygamist?
L
lel
Guest
Wow, a priest who has the integrity to leave when he believes that the Church is heading into error. I know what parish I will be looking into soon!
B
buffalo
Guest
Gabriel Gale:
One is a natural attraction the other (SSA) is not. Start there. In either case self mastery is required.
- Status