Any Catholics around who reject a teaching or two? Post here!

[rhiannonh]

A member of that Church which has the Pope, you know?

Its clear in that here you are talking about Roman Catholic

and not

Catholic

Though many of you write Catholic, even the opening post, thinking you mean Roman Catholic. In that I am Catholic but definately not Roman Catholic.

 

[Leegal]

On the issue of artificial contraception, I think more Catholics would heed Church teaching if our bishops and priests would regularly and intelligently explain why it is intrinsically evil.

ABC is objectively evil – not intrinsically evil. For example birth control pills.

When the objective is to prevent contraception it is objectively evil.

When birth control pills are used to treat a condition such as ammenorhea, it’s not evil. The regulation of the cycle through hormones creates a secondary consequence of not allowing pregnancy – but the objective is to control a primary medical condition.

Even the Pope has said that condom usage by those with HIV and other diseases prevent a greater evil – the spread of disease that might kill the partner. You are free to disagree on the Pope’s statement on whether or not there is a greater or lesser evil here – but even that, by the Pope’s definition, is not an intrinsic evil if used to prevent the spread of disease. He was not speaking ex Cathedra and you are free to reject his statement on greater evil.

Abortificants such as Plan B or the morning after pill are allowed for use by Catholics when being treated for a reported rape after the hospital performs a pregnancy test (hopefully the woman gets treated quickly) to be certain that conception has not already taken place. It’s the one exception – and must be in a medical setting. It’s not an “oops” moment.

The implanted IUD is intrinsically evil because it only has one objective.

 

[JustaServant]

ABC is objectively evil – not intrinsically evil.

When the objective is to prevent contraception it is objectively evil.

When the ABC is used to treat a condition such as ammenorhea, it’s not evil. The regulation of the cycle through hormones creates a secondary consequence of not allowing pregnancy – but the objective is to control a primary medical condition.

This is a good point often mischaracterized by mainstream media with regard to the Catholic Church and contraception.

 

[Zundrah]

When i first returned to the Church, I was convinced the Church was the Church Christ founded, but I still had some ideas in my head about Church teaching that were wrong, like how can celibate men make a rule about something they don’t know anything about, like birth control?

So I put it in God’s Hands: I told Him I didn’t understand it, but I would follow it. I did that and then God explained it to me.

There have been other times when this happened, but there have also been times when I asked for help understanding something and God didn’t clarify it directly but put something to read or something someone said in my way so I found the explanation that way.

What is important to me is that I follow and obey the Church, even if I don’t understand.

I find it amazing that people who have told me they almost left the church over something they couldn’t agree with always seem to have remained just by one method alone; they put trust and faith into the Church and that all will make sense eventually. It’s like a human instinct for Catholics.

I continue to grapple with the question, I let people know I don’t get it. And I pray about it.

It’s like the difference between feelings and actions. I may promise my friend that I’ll help her do something in Saturday morning, and then not feel like doing it when the time comes. But so what? I go and do it anyway. Not feeling like it is not a part of one’s will, it’s just an effect of being human.

I suggest that you pray about and discuss your doubts and disagreements, but if you have tried discussion, then work harder on prayer. Let God know that you want to follow Him, but that you don’t understand this and ask for His help.

Thank you, it’s never fully over. Hope is always around.

 

[bobballen_18]

I’ve often wondered about things the Catholic Church teaches, especially these last couple years when I’ve been on my own at college.

Really this isn’t what the OP is looking for but oh well. I just wanted to comment and reinforce many’s comments about faith. I thank God SO very much for the gift of faith He has given me. No matter what I have wondered about, my faith has kept me totally loyal to the Church and it always boils down to, I don’t have any authority to make my own beliefs. I guess that’s what I should always be thankful to God for too - that He made me able to just believe that what the Church says is true, is true. Someone might just call me naive or something, but regardless, I believe God has blessed me in this way.

I will pray for an increase of faith for you and all Catholics.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

So you are talking about Roman Catholic

not

Catholic

Within the Catholic Church there are many Rites, of which the Latin Rite (Roman) is the largest. The pope is the Bishop of Rome. In Scripture we see that “overseers” (bishops) were appointed with authority form the Church to oversee the local flock (Acts 20:28). Peter had (has) the task of tending and feeding* all the sheep* (John 21:15-18) as do Peter’s successors (bishops of Rome–the popes). The problem with self-appointed freelance Bible interpreters (non-Catholics) is that they have also appointed themselves overseers to their own beliefs and interpretations of Sacred Scripture.

 

[eddadonkey]

+JMJ+

I think you placed your thread in the wrong forum, Zundrah. This is the TRADITIONAL Catholicism forum, where most of the respondents actually accept all of the Church’s teachings.

As for me, years ago I had problems with the Church’s doctrines on Mary. So I prayed lots and made research on them. Suffice to say, I am now very much Mary’s child

 

[Zundrah]

Its clear in that here you are talking about Roman Catholic

and not

Catholic

Not Roman Catholic
Though many of you write Catholic, even the opening post, thinking you mean Roman Catholic. In that I am Catholic but definately not Roman Catholic.

I am aware that some Anglicans refer to themselves as Catholics. But, and this is a very important factor, does it require capitalization?

 

[bobballen_18]

I find it amazing that people who have told me they almost left the church over something they couldn’t agree with always seem to have remained just by one method alone; they put trust and faith into the Church and that all will make sense eventually. It’s like a human instinct for Catholics.

Yeah, that’s the group that I fall in, except I haven’t even gotten close to leaving the Church. That’s a good way to put it - it’s just like an instint that won’t allow me to even consider leaving the Church!

 

[eddadonkey]

+JMJ+

I find it amazing that people who have told me they almost left the church over something they couldn’t agree with always seem to have remained just by one method alone; they put trust and faith into the Church and that all will make sense eventually. It’s like a human instinct for Catholics.

Yes that’s actually it also for me. I never once doubted that if Christianity is true, then the Catholic Church is the true Christian Church, and if that is so, then the Church can always be counted on for delivering the Truth.

 

[Luvtosew]

Its clear in that here you are talking about Roman Catholic

and not

Catholic

Though many of you write Catholic, even the opening post, thinking you mean Roman Catholic. In that I am Catholic but definately not Roman Catholic.

That is so true, I’m quite surer he meant RCC and not Catholic. There is a difference. I see that in the Cathechism also, one minute it says Catholic and another few lines, Christian, and well I’m sure they mean RCC.

Also few people are voting, but in all honesty a poll at CAF forum is not indicative of say a poll of a thousand RCC on a boat, as the maj. of RCC here believe everything the RCC teaches.

 

[Zundrah]

+JMJ+

I think you placed your thread in the wrong forum, Zundrah. This is the TRADITIONAL Catholicism forum, where most of the respondents actually accept all of the Church’s teachings.

Maybe so.

As for me, years ago I had problems with the Church’s doctrines on Mary. So I prayed lots and made research on them. Suffice to say, I am now very much Mary’s child

You see that is often a crossing point many converts suffer with but I remember getting around that quite quickly. I was using the rosary after about two weeks of questioning the whole inevitably erratic subject of praying to anyone other than God/Christ.

 

[Zundrah]

Yeah, that’s the group that I fall in, except I haven’t even gotten close to leaving the Church. That’s a good way to put it - it’s just like an instint that won’t allow me to even consider leaving the Church!

I have mixed feelings but of that I am sure.

 

[Zundrah]

And those practices are…?

Why do you want to know?

 

[Leegal]

I didn’t start this thread because I saw that one. To be honest I can’t relate to what that OP is trying to tell us all.

There was more in my post than the one statement. What I said on moral conscience still stands. It’s by that formation of moral conscience that we understand the Church’s teacings.

 

[Zundrah]

There was more in my post than the one statement. What I said on moral conscience still stands. It’s by that formation of moral conscience that we understand the Church’s teacings.

Believe me I have tried, but as I narrowed down the reading into the basis all the teachings I disagree with I still found no moral reasoning for it. Seemed as if it has translucent back up.

 

[Windmill]

You misunderstand excommunication. It doesn’t make you “not Catholic”, just “unable to receive the sacraments”. Even so, it’s not a permanent state – and it isn’t intended to be! It’s meant to be medicinal – that is, it’s meant to be the kind of “intervention” that allows a person to re-evaluate their positions, in the hope that they’ll repent and return to the Church.

When people see excommunication as punitive rather than medicinal, all sorts of problems ensue…

I understand excommunication, and I understand it’s remedial value. I understand that the Church always stands with arms open to receive the heretic should he repent. I understand that baptism places an indellible mark on your soul that even heresy or grave sin cannot erase. You can bring this indellible mark with you before the Judgement seat of God and still go to Hell.

Formal heresy places you outside the Church. You have rejected the faith on a key issue (or issues). Would it be appropriate to still call such a person a “Catholic”? Was Luther a “Catholic” when he started the “Lutheran Church”? Was Calvin a “Catholic” when he started his sect? Why would we persist in calling a public rejector of the Faith a “Catholic”?

I think we need to be clear about something: words mean things. When you start obscuring what a “Catholic” means, then it merely becomes a word that someone uses to describe themselves (regardless of what they believe) and it ceases to be a moniker of one’s actual beliefs.

I am in no hurry to dole out punishments, but I am also tired of people (esp. politicians) publicly stating that they are Catholic when they reject very key tenets of the faith. It only leads others to think that they can dissent on such things and still claim their label as “Catholic”.

Heresy should horrify us, and spark in us a desire to pray for souls and eagerly evangelize those who have doubts about the faith. So much trouble can be avoided if we are more open about our beliefs and answer questions calmly. Once a person has fallen off the deep end, they are entrenched in their denials and it is harder to charitably talk to them.

 

[eddadonkey]

+JMJ+

Believe me I have tried, but as I narrowed down the reading into the basis all the teachings I disagree with I still found no moral reasoning for it. Seemed as if it has translucent back up.

I think what Leegal was trying to say is that sometimes you have to practice those teachings before you could understand them, for one can only develop moral conscience by using it.

If I understand what you said about your acceptance about Marian teachings, you came to understand and accept the Church’s teachings on the Blessed Virgin and the Communion of Saints after you started praying the Rosary.

You can also start doing that here. Try to live as if the moral teachings of the Catholic Church are true.

 

[TEPO]

I’ve recently considered using birth control after my wife gives birth, because of the stress my wife has been facing from having multiple children/pregnancies.

Since I know this is morally wrong, I would still go to Church on Sundays but refrain from getting the Holy Eucharist.

I will consider myself a “Dead Catholic”. (a term I’m coining)
I am Catholic because I believe/respect the teachings as truth.
…But I will be a dead Catholic, because I’ll be willingly falling short.

 

[bird79]

Oh my. It seems that any discussion in this matter offends so many, but to the original poster; I get it. I believe in the trinity, in the sacraments, in the teachings of Jesus, and am proud of the wonderful work fellow Catholics have done to help those who dwell on the earth and pray for tbose who are no longer with us on earth. However, and I am bracing myself for the lashing I may encounter; I believe the humans entrusted to carry on the legacy of the church have gotten it wrong before. Greed and corruption have visited ojr cburch in the past and I hope we; as the church have learned from the sins committed against the teachings of Jesus. What about the selling of absolutions to MAKE PROMISE of getting into heaven by the pope at the time Martin Luther wrote his grievences? What about when Jesus himself basically said in his teachings, yes obsereve the Sabbath but if you lamb falls into a ditch you can surely go rescue the creature.
People can be enlightened by asking questions of what they don’t understand or feel spiritually questioned by. Automattic attack mode is to often deployed on this site. Relax everyone. let the forum exist without JUDGEMENT and pray everyone can come to understand and correct their spiritual dilemas.