Any Heavy Metal fans in here?

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Re: Nightwish

Annette [new singer] is just another pop princess.

Tarja [old singer] was a professional calibre opera singer. Sadly, metal has seriously damaged her voice. It was at it’s best early on:
nz.youtube.com/watch?v=gmDWvGKLzBE

The blend of classical voices with modern instruments was the only thing that made Nightwish special.

For just a moment there, I thought they were going to create something really new-- a musical form that could borrow freely from all historical periods in the service of beauty. Sadly they didn’t quite raise to the challange.
 
Re: Nightwish

Annette [new singer] is just another pop princess.

Tarja [old singer] was a professional calibre opera singer. Sadly, metal has seriously damaged her voice. It was at it’s best early on:
nz.youtube.com/watch?v=gmDWvGKLzBE

The blend of classical voices with modern instruments was the only thing that made Nightwish special.

For just a moment there, I thought they were going to create something really new-- a musical form that could borrow freely from all historical periods in the service of beauty. Sadly they didn’t quite raise to the challange.
Very nice! But what genre would this be? I certainly wouldn’t call it heavy metal.
 
Very nice! But what genre would this be? I certainly wouldn’t call it heavy metal.
When power metal bands go ballad, they can become most un-metal sounding. I don’t think anyone seriously disputes that Nightwish is metal however. See: nz.youtube.com/watch?v=gg5_mlQOsUQ (It’s a ā€œmisheardā€ version just for fun).

They also become un-metally the more arty-farty they get. Witness Rhapsody of Fire using Christopher Lee (Saruman from LotR movies): nz.youtube.com/watch?v=Z93SdirnzTw (Lee comes in at about 43 seconds into it.)
 
Other than Motorhead, I don’t really like metal. For some reason It’s not to attracting to me. I love Punk rock though. Thats more my cup of tea.
 
Very nice! But what genre would this be? I certainly wouldn’t call it heavy metal.
I suppose that’s my point, in a way-- it looked as though they might create a whole new genre, but instead evoloved into a metal band, or at least moved that direction.

I can’t help wondering what it would have been like if they’d put an hour of music in this style and quality together with a visual story: a new form of opera. I think people would have been wild for it…

There was a later recording of this song that’s a bit more metal and has a much more ambitious video. It’s on Youtube, too. Tarja’s voice in that one is more metal, but not as lovely.
 
I can’t help wondering what it would have been like if they’d put an hour of music in this style and quality together with a visual story: a new form of opera. I think people would have been wild for it…
There have been some attempts at operafying rock and metal. And I don’t mean the albums commonly associated with ā€œrock operaā€ like the The Who and Pink Floyd (which is really more like oratorio than opera). To be opera I think it would have to be an attempt to tell the story where staging, drama, acting and set changes would weigh as much as or more than the music. I can think of some close examples. Brian De Palma’s Phantom of the Paradise is basically Faust in a rock setting, but that was a film so doesn’t really count. There was a disasterous attempt by Styx with Mr. Robato, which was fully staged and scripted at one point before the booing audiences forced them to strip it down back to your basic rock concert.

In metal specifically, there was QueensrĆæche’s Operation Mindcrime which I saw in concert and included a few operatic elements–still not opera, but suggesting that direction. Avantasia has The Metal Opera, but that is still oratorio and not opera. Kamelot’s two-album variation on Faust (Epic and The Black Halo), seems like it could be staged. My guess is they are not interested in such (thankfully, in my estimation). Which brings me back to Rhapsody of Fire. Opera is associated with bombast. And if there is going to be an actual staged metal opera in the fullest sense of the term, its going to come from one of the more bombastic power metal groups, and Rhapsody of Fire is on the top of the heap for that. 😃

P.S. Oh yeah, before someone mentions so-called ā€œseriousā€ composers, I think a true metal opera would have to come from actual metal bands. Andrew Lloyd Webber slumming with headbangers for one musical doesn’t count. šŸ™‚
 
Well, I am now intrigued about Nightwish.

Do they have a ā€œbest ofā€ album? If not, which of their albums is generally considered the best?
Nightwish doesn’t have a ā€œbest ofā€ album that I know of at this point in time. (I admit, I am surprised they didn’t release one after they ditched Tarja to sort of ā€œwrap upā€ that era of their career 🤷 ).

I have only my own opinion, not a general consensus, but I would probably start with ā€œCentury Childā€. All of their other albums have moments of great brilliance, but I think this one is the most solid from beginning to end. Plus it has a great cover of ā€œPhantom of the Operaā€ šŸ™‚ ā€œWishmasterā€ would be a close second.

I think I might actually like their newest album the best, but with a new lead singer, it is a bit different to listen to. For the unexposed, I think starting with Tarja is a good thing.

Stop by their myspace page to listen to some of their stuff. The Official Nightwish website also has some samples from songs from each of their albums to give you a flavor of their music.
 
There have been some attempts at operafying rock and metal. And I don’t mean the albums commonly associated with ā€œrock operaā€ like the The Who and Pink Floyd (which is really more like oratorio than opera). To be opera I think it would have to be an attempt to tell the story where staging, drama, acting and set changes would weigh as much as or more than the music. I can think of some close examples. Brian De Palma’s Phantom of the Paradise is basically Faust in a rock setting, but that was a film so doesn’t really count. There was a disasterous attempt by Styx with Mr. Robato, which was fully staged and scripted at one point before the booing audiences forced them to strip it down back to your basic rock concert.

In metal specifically, there was QueensrĆæche’s Operation Mindcrime which I saw in concert and included a few operatic elements–still not opera, but suggesting that direction. Avantasia has The Metal Opera, but that is still oratorio and not opera. Kamelot’s two-album variation on Faust (Epic and The Black Halo), seems like it could be staged. My guess is they are not interested in such (thankfully, in my estimation). Which brings me back to Rhapsody of Fire. Opera is associated with bombast. And if there is going to be an actual staged metal opera in the fullest sense of the term, its going to come from one of the more bombastic power metal groups, and Rhapsody of Fire is on the top of the heap for that. 😃

P.S. Oh yeah, before someone mentions so-called ā€œseriousā€ composers, I think a true metal opera would have to come from actual metal bands. Andrew Lloyd Webber slumming with headbangers for one musical doesn’t count. šŸ™‚
Let’s not forget Savatage or Trans-Siberian Orchestra. I’d love to see a staged version of ā€œDead Winter Deadā€ or ā€œBeethoven’s Last Nightā€. šŸ™‚ Shadow Gallery’s ā€œTyrannyā€ is another possibility. I’d say you could try doing Saviour Machine’s ā€œLegendā€ trilogy (if it ever gets finished), but I’m not sure how you could stage it.

I do think that you are right about Rhapsody being at the top of the heap for that, though. Their music does lend itself towards the bombastic.

Oooh, I just thought of another one. Ayreon’s albums are all ā€œrock opera’sā€ of sorts (complete with multiple singers portraying multiple characters). ā€œInto the Electric Castleā€ or ā€œHuman Equationā€ could be staged, I think. Of course, they don’t have the orchestration that Rhapsody or Kamelot has.

Oh, and, of course, there’s Dream Theater’s ā€œScenes From a Memoryā€. If you staged it, then James LaBrie wouldn’t have to sing both the guy and the girl parts. šŸ˜‰

Has anyone ever heard of Therion? They started out as a straighht Death metal band, but with their album ā€œTheliā€, they began to utilize opera singers (sometimes a whole choir, sometimes as soloists). But then they throw in some regular metal vocals, too. Strange stuff. Once I found out the main guy behind the band basically started his own occult religion, it sort of turned me off of them. But the vocals are such that you really can’t understand what they’re saying (and even if you could, it usually doesn’t make too much sense).
 
I’m not really into music videos (music is meant to be heard, not seen), but I did just view this intriguing Nightwish video:

youtube.com/watch?v=hjd-VLB82FA

Can anyone tell me what the tie-in to the knight battle is about? I couldn’t tell from listening to the song lyrics.

Cool armor and a lovely princess! :o
 
The beautiful princess it Tarja Turunen, who was dismissed from the band a while ago. Now Nightwish fans are very divided on the issue of whether anyone else can fill her shoes.

Regardless of that, I feel they they fired her in a despicable fashion, mostly because she married a guy from Argentina.

Ultimately, I’m just sad that the promise of this song was never completely fulfilled: the potential here is limitless.

But God Bless all creative people who can bring us such beauty!

Anyhoo, ā€˜Sleeping Sun’ might be their most famous song. It was an early effort, original video is just Tarja walking in a field. They re-recorded it in 2005 for their ā€˜best of’ album ā€˜Highest Hopes’], and made a new video to emphasize the guys. So the medieval tie in came after the fact. Props for including some pro-christian images, though.

Gothic imagry is big in Heavy Metal, especially for Scandanavian bands. Knight’s armor is pretty ā€˜heavy metal’, in more ways than one…

Tarja’s voice in the 2005 version you linked to shows some wear, IMO [fairness to her, she sounds better these days]. The original really emphasizes the power and range of a truely operatic voice:
youtube.com/watch?v=gmDWvGKLzBE&feature=related

I first heard this on a Celtic collection, and looped it, listened over and over for at least two hours straight.

A computer wizard that prefered the new visual but the old vocal married them here:
youtube.com/watch?v=GdWhlo9b9zg&feature=related

They are from Finland, and their lyrics written in english often don’t make much sense-- its a bit like early Abba in that the words are chosen as much for sound as meaning. It’s more a matter of creating lovely ā€˜word pictures’ than a narrative line. The individual phrases are gorgeous, they just don’t mean much when strung together.

But since Finland is so far north, the nights are very, very long at midwinter, and the concept ā€˜I wish that this nighttime could last for a lifetime’ probably has great resonance there-- talk about a word picture!
 
I’m not really into music videos (music is meant to be heard, not seen), but I did just view this intriguing Nightwish video:
From the 33 1/3 Rules of Rock N’ Roll:
  1. Videos are commercials.
:rotfl:

I agree that the manner in which Tarja was fired was ill-chosen. (With no warning, they handed her a letter signed by the other members after a concert. Not as bad as firing by phone, but not much better either.) However, I’ve not seen any reliable context for the grounds for her firing, so I would be reluctant to say they were substantially illegitimate or legit. Obviously a major blow to a band whose character was largely defined by the singer, but stuff happens.

Here is some metal about crusading by Hammerfall: youtube.com/watch?v=k25X8RAjJ00 It’s pretty cheesy, but fun. lyrics:

We saw the writings on the wall
When heathens ruled above us all
Tormented, we still heard the call

You come to bring us down
Wield the scepter, steal the crown
Time on the throne is running out

'Cause seasons change but we
are still the same
Even though the cold winds blow
we’re burning like a flame

Hearts On Fire, Hearts On Fire
Burning, burning with desire
etc.

For years shunned by society
Outcasts, condemned for our beliefs
Our legions grew in secrecy

And now, the time is here
I see the Templars everywhere
The Freedom Call is drawing near

We hold our rebel banners up with pride
The colour’s crimson and the
Hammer is the sign
 
Heh. Hammerfall. The Manowar of the power metal scene. Cheesy lyrics in spades! (And yes, I own albums by both Hammerfall and Manowar :o ).

😃
 
Heh. Hammerfall. The Manowar of the power metal scene. Cheesy lyrics in spades! (And yes, I own albums by both Hammerfall and Manowar :o ).

😃
Embrace the cheese! šŸ™‚ I always warn people that rock, and metal in particular, is essentially a loud version of Vaudeville. So I make frequent examinations of conscience to make sure I don’t take it too seriously. šŸ‘
 
Embrace the cheese! šŸ™‚ I always warn people that rock, and metal in particular, is essentially a loud version of Vaudeville. So I make frequent examinations of conscience to make sure I don’t take it too seriously. šŸ‘
LOL. I don’t think I’ve heard heavy metal summed up so succinctly and accurately before. I’ll have to remember that one! 😃
 
Heh. And nobody has even bothered to mention Apocalyptica - all metal, all the time, all…cello.

I still wonder how they manage to keep their whirling locks out of their bows and strings, because yai, that’d hurt something awful.
 
Heh. And nobody has even bothered to mention Apocalyptica - all metal, all the time, all…cello.

I still wonder how they manage to keep their whirling locks out of their bows and strings, because yai, that’d hurt something awful.
Ah yes. I have not yet picked up any of their albums. When they first came out with their Metallica cover album, I sort of figured they were just a novelty act that would quickly fade away. Only recently have I learned that they are now a regular band releasing albums of original material. I’m sure I would enjoy it.
 
They’re actually pretty rockin, yes indeed. and this is coming from a gothy/electro/shoegaze fiend.

But yeah, they are also absolutely hilarious! I’ll have a beer with my cheese, please!
 
On the metal storm site, I see that another band called Amberian Dawn features an opera-style soprano: amberiandawn.com/ You can hear two tracks at that site. ā€œThe River of Tuoniā€ was ok on first listen.

When I looked them up on Amazon, it also recommended bands like Coronatus, Eyes of Eden, Satyrian, Imperia, etc. So it is clear that many are jumping on the Operatic-female bandwagon now that Nightwish opened the path. I’ll keep my eyes open and let others sort out the copycat junk from the good stuff.
 
On the metal storm site, I see that another band called Amberian Dawn features an opera-style soprano: amberiandawn.com/ You can hear two tracks at that site. ā€œThe River of Tuoniā€ was ok on first listen.

When I looked them up on Amazon, it also recommended bands like Coronatus, Eyes of Eden, Satyrian, Imperia, etc. So it is clear that many are jumping on the Operatic-female bandwagon now that Nightwish opened the path. I’ll keep my eyes open and let others sort out the copycat junk from the good stuff.
Have you heard of Edenbridge? You can listen to samples on their MySpace page or their Official website. Their singer (Sabine Edelsbacher) is a soprano, though I’m not sure if she is a classically trained opera singer as Tarja is. Their stuff is decent. It’s more atmospheric (and generally slower) than Nightwish.

I have their first three albums, but not their last four (man, they’re prolific! 7 albums in 8 years!). The duo with Sabine and D.C. Cooper on Aphelion is fantastic (but then, I really like D.C. Cooper). I definitely like Nightwish better, but I do enjoy Edenbridge.

On a sadder note, I’m not sure if there are any Shadow Gallery fans here, but Mike Baker (their lead singer) passed away last week (Oct. 29) of a heart attack. He was only 45. :sad_bye:
 
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