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RebeccaJ
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This just isn’t true. The board you said you participate at has former Catholics who answer questions about Catholicism, sometimes at great length. (And do a pretty good job too.)
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RebeccaJ
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I also realize that Mormons aren’t as good at record keeping as they imagine themselves to be. People make mistakes, are lazy, don’t follow instructions, instructions change, etc.
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Prodigal1984
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Not only this but there is huge evidence they lie about their membership numbers. I believe in Mexico and even more so Brazil, the number they claim were members from those countries were drastically larger than what the countries census claimed. And not by a small amount either. In Brazil for example the 2010 national census reported 226,509 people identifying as members.This is very different from the church’s reported membership in 2012 of 1,173,533.
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NeuroTypical
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I consider you, someone critical of my faith, to be critical of my faith. You tell me - if someone asked me about Catholicism, should I direct them to a former Catholic who is very critical of Catholicism and is often found online speaking out against Catholicism?
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Lemuel
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You answered my question with a question, so I’ll do the same. If I was shopping for a car and wanted to know about Fords, should I talk to a Ford dealer who only knows Fords or to a Chevy dealer who knows both Fords and Chevys?
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Lemuel
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I must also add that I have, on several occasions, written to and scolded authors of online articles and YouTube videos who have attempted to spread false derogatory things about the Mormon church.
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Lemuel
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Critical is one thing. Dishonest is another. Have I said anything that was dishonest or untrue?
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NeuroTypical
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Again, when someone asks me about Catholicism, you want me to send them to a vocal, well-researched critic of Catholicism who says nothing dishonest or untrue?
- Interested in Chevys, send 'em to someone who knows both Chevys and Fords, and prefers Fords?
- Interested in Mormons, send 'em to someone who knows both Mormons and Catholics, and prefers Catholics?
- Interested in Catholics, send 'em to someone who knows both Catholics and Mormons, and prefers Mormons?
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Lemuel
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Sure, why not?
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Lemuel
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Yeah, all three would be perfectly fine.
And I’m glad that you seem to not think that I have said anything dishonest or untrue.
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OKComputer
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The truth is anti-Mormon. So is history.
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Lemuel
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In all fairness he was not excommunicated. He resigned his membership before they could excommunicate him. He just wanted the kangaroo court to go on record for what it was.
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Chris-Wa1
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Also a prominent trait of a cult.
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NeuroTypical
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Forgive me folks, I’m getting whiplash trying to follow what seems to me to be contradicting statements.
Is it easy to leave/get kicked out of/excommunicated from the Catholic church or hard?
Is it easy to leave/get kicked out of/excommunicated from the restored church of Jesus Christ or hard?
If it’s hard to leave a church, is that prominent trait of a cult/false church or isn’t it?
Does Catholicism have this prominent trait of a cult/false church or doesn’t it?
Does the restored church of Jesus Christ have this prominent trait of a cult/false church or doesn’t it?
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whatistrue
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Where is the contradiction? Because I have tried and don’t see any in this list of snippets you provided
Based on the above out-of-context quotes and also on basic knowledge easily available to anyone, being kicked out of the Catholic church is difficult; leaving voluntarily is easy.
(I am assuming that what you refer to as “restored church of Jesus Christ” is routinely referred to here as either “LDS” or “Mormon” - if that is not correct, please let me know) That being said, being kicked out of the LDS appears to be easy (just ask the “wrong” questions) and leaving voluntarily appears to be difficult (you are always on a list somewhere and will be regularly nagged). And yes, that would be indicative of a cult.
Based on the above out-of-context quotes and also on basic knowledge easily available to anyone, being kicked out of the Catholic church is difficult; leaving voluntarily is easy.
(I am assuming that what you refer to as “restored church of Jesus Christ” is routinely referred to here as either “LDS” or “Mormon” - if that is not correct, please let me know) That being said, being kicked out of the LDS appears to be easy (just ask the “wrong” questions) and leaving voluntarily appears to be difficult (you are always on a list somewhere and will be regularly nagged). And yes, that would be indicative of a cult.
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Prodigal1984
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There are a number of groups who claim Mormonism and claim to be the true church of Mormonism. Kind of ironic seeing as they tout this apostasy and less than 200 years into their founding they have the same thing going on. You have the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints(LDS) in Salt Lake City, you have the Community of Christ formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints(RLDS)in Independence, Missouri. Then you have a bunch of small “fundamentalist” groups; some which still practice polygamy.
Just interesting they cite this apostasy and the same thing happened with them, though they never talk about it. If a Mormon missionary comes to your door it would seem like the LDS is the only church that claims Mormonism.
Just interesting they cite this apostasy and the same thing happened with them, though they never talk about it. If a Mormon missionary comes to your door it would seem like the LDS is the only church that claims Mormonism.
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Horton
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@RebeccaJ and I said the same thing. It is rare and difficult to get excommunicated from the Catholic Church.
It is easy for an LDS to be excommunicated from the LDS, but the organization makes life difficult for that person. It also make life difficult for those LDS who choose to leave.
Any church or organization that makes it difficult to leave the community due to scare tactics, threats, or harassment is a cult.
No, Catholicism does not have this trait. People choose to leave the Catholic Church and the Church does not intervene. A priest may ask if there is anything that can be resolved for this person or question their reason for leaving but it done with love and compassion, not with threats or coercion.
Yes it does.
No contradictions there.
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Chris-Wa1
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No contradictions whatsoever. I cannot tell whether this is some sort of deflection tactic on your part or you really don’t understand.
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gazelam
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You appear to be conflating individual apostasy where someone leaves a religious organization to which they previously belonged, and the Great Apostasy where Priesthood authority was removed from the Earth due to the rebellion of the church members. The parable of the sower illustrates the reasons why spirituality weak individuals leave God’s Kingdom. That process occurred both anciently and in modern times. The result is several “Mormon” denominations as you note. However, anciently the Bible plainly taught of “grievous wolves sparing not the flock”, and then a restoration of the fullness of times. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the fulfillment of that prophecy. But just because that prophecy is fulfilled it doesn’t preclude additional individual apostasy. Each of us is given the ability to spiritually discern these matters for ourselves. Some do discern and some don’t.
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Prodigal1984
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Yah. The apostasy. The cop out excuse for why someone has a group that is authoratative. Jehovahs Witnesses use this too.
It is not historically accurate and it is a slap in the face to all of the early Church martyrs who went with grace to die for the Lord.
Not in some shootout at a jail after making a Freemason distress call.
It is not historically accurate and it is a slap in the face to all of the early Church martyrs who went with grace to die for the Lord.
Not in some shootout at a jail after making a Freemason distress call.
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