Any other couples who choose NOT to practice NFP/Fertility Awareness Methods? (Everyone welcome!)

[paradoxy]

I voted “not practicing NFP” b/c we still aren’t. We’ve been married for almost two years, have a 4mo daughter, my periods haven’t returned and there’s a fast going on in the Orthodox Church which means no sex until July 12, which is when we’ll see what we’re gonna do next.

 

[shawn34_a]

You know how NFP works right?

So is it a sin of the flesh to have sex with your wife when she isn’t fertile? How about after menopause?

You are not circumvent God’s will of pro-creation you are working with it. Circumventing would be wrapping your package or popping a pill. With NFP you have done nothing to prevent having children except not act on your desires of the flesh.

NFP, when practiced according to proper teaching, is more effective in preventing pregnancy than the pill. I know exactly how it works. Your removing the pro-creation, that being God, aspect from the equation.

Menopause is a completely different situation. There’s no attempting to avoid pregnancy in that case.

The Bible teaches to avoid relations during a womans unclean state. So if we avoid it then and during her fertile periods, your left with half a cycle.

If you profess to be Catholic, why don’t you just leave the matter up to God rather than acting like God. If you take the matter to heart, you’d probably find that this is more a teaching of the serpent, rather than God.

Help about some prayer and trust in God for what is best for you.

 

[LJN21]

NFP, when practiced according to proper teaching, is more effective in preventing pregnancy. I know exactly how it works. When practiced to prevent pregnancy, it’s no different than using the pill. Your removing the procreation aspect from the equation.

Menopause is a completely different situation. There’s no attempting to avoid pregnancy in that case.

The Bible teaches to avoid relations during a woman’s unclean state. So if we avoid it then and during her fertile periods, your left with half a cycle.

If you profess to be Catholic, why don’t you just leave the matter up to God rather than acting like God. If you take the matter to heart, you’d probably find that this is more a teaching of the serpent, rather than God.

Help about some prayer and trust in God for what is best for you.

I feel sorry for you wife.

Whats really funny is if you actually read this tread instead of saying the teaching of the church is wrong in regards to NFP you would know I have left my fertility in Gods hands and am pregnant with our 3rd child in 3 years.

Whats more the bibles teaching on avoiding menstruating women is a hygiene thing and no long applicable.

 

[shawn34_a]

I feel sorry for you wife.

Why? Because we trust in God since He knows what is best for us. Maybe you should be more trusting and lift your voice up in prayer.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Alrighty Dighty folks Let’s not get this thing closed…okay?

I understand both the NFP and the NO-NFP perspectives. My hubby and I have personally chosen the NO-NFP option. However, they are both in line with the church’s teaching. They are both catholic. The only restriction for NFP is that you must have a very serious reason to use it. That is all.

Back on track please! Thanks!

 

[LJN21]

Why? Because we trust in God since He knows what is best for us. Maybe you should be more trusting and lift your voice up in prayer.

Maybe some of us wonder where the line between faith trust and prudence is?

 

[shawn34_a]

I feel sorry for you wife.

Whats really funny is if you actully read this tread instead of saying the teaching of the church is wrong in regards to NFP you would know I have left my fertility in Gods hands and am pregant with our 3rd child in 2 years.

Whats more the bibles teaching on avoiding menstrating women is a hygen thing and no long applicable.

Congrats on the pregnancy! Your fertility should be left in God’s hands. NFP can help with pregnancy. However it’s also taught for prevention.

Show me some scripture regarding the last. No where in the Bible have I read regarding the hygiene teaching and that it’s no longer applicable. You’ll probably reference circumcision in Romans and how that’s no applicable too for these laws were laid down for the Jews only.

 

[shawn34_a]

Maybe some of us wonder where the line between faith trust and prudence is?

God gives us no more than we can handle. It may not seem like that, but that’s the case. When we start acting like God by taking such things as fertility into our own hands, it’s amazing the judgment that can come upon us by Him.

 

[LJN21]

Congrats on the pregnancy! Your fertility should be left in God’s hands. NFP can help with pregnancy. However it’s also taught for prevention.

Show me some scripture regarding the last. No where in the Bible have I read regarding the hygiene teaching and that it’s no longer applicable. You’ll probably reference circumcision in Romans and how that’s no applicable too for these laws were laid down for the Jews only.

I’m sorry I’m Catholic I don’t believe in Solo Scriptura. All Pre Cana/Catholic sexuality material I have read says its perfectly acceptable.

The summa Theolocia on intercourse during menstruation:

newadvent.org/summa/5064.htm#3

It was forbidden in the Law to approach to a menstruous woman, for two reasons both on account of her uncleanness, and on account of the harm that frequently resulted to the offspring from such intercourse. With regard to the first reason, it was a ceremonial precept, but with regard to the second it was a moral precept. For since marriage is chiefly directed to the good of the offspring, all use of marriage which is intended for the good of the offspring is in order. Consequently this precept is binding even in the New Law on account of the second reason, although not on account of the first. Now, the menstrual issue may be natural or unnatural. The natural issue is that to which women are subject at stated periods when they are in good health; and it is unnatural when they suffer from an issue of blood through some disorder resulting from sickness. Accordingly if the menstrual flow be unnatural it is not forbidden in the New Law to approach to a menstruous woman both on account of her infirmity since a woman in that state cannot conceive, and because an issue of this kind is lasting and continuous, so that the husband would have to abstain for always. When however the woman is subject to a natural issue of the menstruum, she can conceive; moreover, the said issue lasts only a short time, wherefore it is forbidden to approach to her. In like manner a woman is forbidden to ask for the debt during the period of that issue.

 

[BeeSweet]

I practice NFP. Can’t really say my husband does necessarily, he mostly is just supportive of it and leaves the actual “practice” of it up to me. Basically, he waits for a green light from the bookkeeper.

My husband is not a Catholic, and he does not want another child right now. He’s mentioned using condoms once in the last year since we began using NFP, and we ended up abstaining anyway. I’m grateful for his attitude, and for his support.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I practice NFP. Can’t really say my husband does necessarily, he mostly is just supportive of it and leaves the actual “practice” of it up to me. Basically, he waits for a green light from the bookkeeper.

“Bookeeper” that is TOO funny! What other titles do you have?

BeeSweet:

My husband is not a Catholic, and he does not want another child right now. He’s mentioned using condoms once in the last year since we began using NFP, and we ended up abstaining anyway. I’m grateful for his attitude, and for his support.

AWWW! How sweet! Your husband sounds just like mine. Not catholic, not really understanding things, but totally in love with his wife, and willing to do anything for her.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Thanks to everyone who has shared their stories. I don’t know what I would do without supportive CAF friends like you. It’s so good to know you’re not alone (even if I am smack dab in the second LEAST catholic spot of the bible belt.)

 

[BeeSweet]

“Bookeeper” that is TOO funny! What other titles do you have?

Let’s just say I’m the “go-to gal” I guess!

AWWW! How sweet! Your husband sounds just like mine. Not catholic, not really understanding things, but totally in love with his wife, and willing to do anything for her.

Actually my husband does understand, he’s kind of a nature freak I guess. I was on contraception for a long time, and he never liked it, BUT he didn’t want children either so…
(I was away from the church for a loooong time!).

As for the “willing to do anything”… definitely not. Basically anything that’s indoors is off limits unless he’s being fed. I found a movie theater that serves dinner and drinks, and last month we finally went to a movie together after 8 years!

You know one thing I really love about NFP is that when we are in a position where we can provide for another child (hopefully SOON!), I have the knowledge on how to make our efforts fruitful!!

 

[LJN21]

God gives us no more than we can handle. It may not seem like that, but that’s the case. When we start acting like God by taking such things as fertility into our own hands, it’s amazing the judgment that can come upon us by Him.

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0311fea3.asp

An example of one such error is the hyper-pious notion that if couples really trusted in providence, they would never seek to avoid a child. This simply is not the teaching of the Church. In some cases, “increase in the size of the family would be incompatible with parental duty” (Karol Wojtyla [John Paul II], Love and Responsibility, Ignatius Press, 243). Therefore, avoiding children “in certain circumstances may be permissible or even obligatory” (Karol Wojtyla, Person & Community: Selected Essays, Peter Lang Publishing, p. 293).

We are certainly to trust in God’s providence. But this important truth must be balanced with another important truth to avoid the error of “providentialism.” When the devil tempted Christ to jump from the Temple, he was correct to say that God would provide for him. The devil was even quoting Scripture! But Christ responded with another truth from Scripture: “You shall not tempt the Lord your God” (Luke 4:12).

People will often retort, “C’mon! That’s splitting hairs! What’s the big difference between rendering the union sterile yourself and just waiting until it’s naturally infertile? End result’s the same thing.” To which I respond: What’s the big difference between a miscarriage and an abortion? End result’s the same thing. One is an act of God. In the other, man takes the powers of life into his own hands and tries to make himself like God (cf. Gen. 3:5).

The difference is cosmic. NFP enables a couple to maintain respect for incarnate love. Such respect is the very raison d’etre of NFP. Contraception “dis-incarnates” love and, by doing so, “strikes at God’s creation itself at the level of the deepest interaction of nature and person” (FC 32).

 

[skippley]

Natural family planning is not Catholic birth control. It’s basic physiology that would be of interest to anyone. Catholics interested in learning about natural family planning can go to www.nfpandmore.org. The online manual teaches basic systematic NFP as well as the Seven Standards of eco-breastfeeding. The “Natural Family Planning” manual is easy-to-read, short, and free. In addition, Part 1 of the manual covers the “why” of NFP and additional support for Church teaching is at this website. Also there is a sidebar for “Not Just for Catholics.” If anyone is interested in the new changes at the Couple to Couple League, you might want to read our blogs at this website at upper right corner. I finished blogging on the dropping of ecological breastfeeding by CCL and my husband is now starting to blog on other changes taking place at CCL. With regard to any form of NFP we are most happy to be of help.
Sheila Kippley
volunteer, NFP International

 

[bear06]

I’m not married but I honestly don’t think I’d want to use NFP is I was but then again I’m in my upper 30s and would welcome any children God chose to give me. I would probably also use use breast feeding to space any children as it’s a natural way and total up to Gods peragative.

This would seem to express a common misbelief about couples that use NFP. We also except (well at least most of us) all children God chooses to give us when we enter into the marital act. It seems silly to say it’s OK to breastfeed to space children but not to accept not entering into the marital act when serious need arises. Not entering into the marital act is also a natural way that one does not become pregnant. It would really seem that intention is the key. If one is breastfeeding like crazy for the sould purpose of avoiding a pregnancy, it would seem that this wouldn’t be “welcoming any children God chose to give me”. Just a thought.

 

[shawn34_a]

"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever. (1 Chronicles 28:9)

“This day the LORD your God commands you to do these statutes and ordinances. You shall therefore be careful to do them with all your heart and with all your soul.” (Deuteronomy 26:16)

My son, do not forget my teaching, But let your heart keep my commandments; (Proverbs 3:1)

The list goes on. IN YOUR HEART (your spirit), you’re forsaking God too pleasure the flesh. Read throughout Kings and Chronicles and you’ll see what happened to the kings who did not trust in God.

 

[LJN21]

"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever. (1 Chronicles 28:9)

“This day the LORD your God commands you to do these statutes and ordinances. You shall therefore be careful to do them with all your heart and with all your soul.” (Deuteronomy 26:16)

My son, do not forget my teaching, But let your heart keep my commandments; (Proverbs 3:1)

The list goes on. IN YOUR HEART (your spirit), you’re forsaking God too pleasure the flesh. Read throughout Kings and Chronicles and you’ll see what happened to the kings who did not trust in God.

Again I’ll take the Churches teaching of scripture over individual interpretation. I’m not protestant.

 

[LittleDeb]

"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever. (1 Chronicles 28:9)

“This day the LORD your God commands you to do these statutes and ordinances. You shall therefore be careful to do them with all your heart and with all your soul.” (Deuteronomy 26:16)

My son, do not forget my teaching, But let your heart keep my commandments; (Proverbs 3:1)

The list goes on. IN YOUR HEART (your spirit), you’re forsaking God too pleasure the flesh. Read throughout Kings and Chronicles and you’ll see what happened to the kings who did not trust in God.

I must finally and charitably beg you to stop forcing your personal interpretation onto others, please.

I cannot tell you how cruel your posts have been to me and others in my situation. To take these beautiful Scripture quotes and twist them into something you can bash me over the head with is so completely hurtful.

As I sit here struggling through a very wanted, but extremely difficult pregnancy, your constant barrage of untruths about Catholic teaching have been some of the most hurtful I have ever encountered. If I had believed your personal interpretation of Scripture 15 years ago I would have had a hysterectomy. My beautiful son and unborn daughter would not exist.

To insult the “science” of NFP is to insult God’s very creation. This science is written on our bodies! This isn’t something we invented against His divine will. This is something He gave us, and due to our own sinful nature we nearly lost all knowledge. To compare the knowledge of fertility with an artificial barrier or another assault on the marital act using withdrawal, is so amazingly rude. For you to decide that my husband and I abstain for selfish reason is the height of presumption. Try walking in his shoes, caring for an ill wife and son while trying to to hold a full time job. I cannot begin to tell you of his personal sacrifice in trusting God to have children with me in the first place.

Abstaining from sexual relations is sometimes the most loving thing one can do. For another to decide that we were abstaining during fertility just to lust for one another during infertility is absurd! Would you define the few times during this difficult pregnancy where I have been healthy enough to engage in the marital act, to be based on satisfying a lust or just seeking pleasure? Is it only okay in your book now that I am pregnant? What about the year and a half where we faced infertility? Was charting then for lustful intent? If we ever had sex when we were not fertile during that time would you define that as lust too?

I beg you. Please submit to the Church in Her teachings. Please stop this hurtful diatribe. If you don’t have the circumstances where charting is necessary then you are truly blessed. There are others in this thread who share that luxury, yet they have not been hurtful. They, I commend and thank. The sheer number of days and weeks I have been bedridden during this last six months of pregnancy has gone beyond counting. None of us know anymore. I have the most wonderful, loving family and friends to support me. The only reason any of us have been able to keep going is that we FULLY trust in God. This baby, and all babies, are by His design.

May God continue to bless all of you who are able to live without a chart. Please offer up anything you can for those of us who struggle to have even one or two precious blessings in our lives.

 

[SeekerJen]

We don’t use NFP because, frankly, there’s no reason for us to bother with charting. We’ve been infertile for three years now, and had no more success in conceiving when we were charting and timing intercourse “optimally” than when we just tossed the charts and left it in God’s hands.

That said, I do think NFP is really cool. I’m a science nerd, and it was really interesting to learn about the cycle phases, hormones, what the body does when and why, etc. I also like that it is immediately reversible, no drug side effects, no latex allergies, no scary devices implanted in the uterus or under the skin, etc., yet still manages to be at least as effective as the artificial methods. And of course, used with the proper intent, it doesn’t cause the couple to sin mortally.